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Author Topic:   Pence would be a worse President than Trump???
jar
Member
Posts: 32352
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 46 of 67 (869901)
01-07-2020 5:53 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Faith
01-07-2020 4:00 PM


Rule of Law Faith. Learn the basics
Faith, it really does not much matter if you think a law is crap. It is still the LAW and we once were a Nation Under Law. Yes, rogue Presidents have gone off on their own, even breaking US law, Ronald Reagan is a great example.

BUT that still does not mean that even a President is Above The Law.

Basics Faith, learn the basics.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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jar
Member
Posts: 32352
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 47 of 67 (869902)
01-07-2020 5:55 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by JonF
01-07-2020 5:20 PM


Rogue Presidents
JonF writes:

We know you couldn't name an instance to save your life. You're the queen of unsupportable declarations.

Me Teach. Pick ME teach. I know the answer....


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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dwise1
Member
Posts: 4050
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 48 of 67 (869905)
01-07-2020 11:37 PM
Reply to: Message 35 by Faith
01-07-2020 5:23 AM


Re: Pence and his extreme agenda
There are many more military people who support what Trump did than oppose him.

Highly doubtful, especially among the leadership who realize all too well how much Trump has screwed the pooch on this one, possibly only surpassed by his betrayal of our Kurdish allies in Syria.

We also know that Trump's approval by the military is dropping in large part because of his misuse of the military and his crass disrespect for the military, veterans, and Gold Star families.

For example, the 17 Dec 2019 issue of Military Times reports on polls in Half of active-duty service members are unhappy with Trump, new Military Times poll shows. Trump's low marks are a continuation of his steady decline since 2016.

BTW, what's your source? I assume your standard source: the liies from right-wing media.

Here are some of the figures from the article's charts:



HOW FAVORABLE OR UNFAVORABLE IS YOUR VIEW OF PRESIDENT DONALD TRUMP?

24.3% Very Favorable
17.3% Favorable
45.1% Very Unfavorable
4.8% Unfavorable
8.5% Neutral

Demographic Breakdown of Which Groups View Trump Favorably


46% of White Non-Hispanic
43% of Enlisted
43% of Male
33% of Officers
29% of Non-White
28% of Female



Too bad they didn't also break the figures down by time in service (TIS). I would think that most support for Trump would be from junior enlisted since they haven't started their leadership training. Plus many enlisted only stay in for one enlistment, just long enough to get vocational training and a little experience and then they leave to apply their training in a civilian job. The members who stay in know enough to see through Trump.

Since you will not read that article (for fear of learning something), here are some excerpts:

quote:
The poll surveyed 1,630 active-duty Military Times subscribers in partnership with the Institute for Veterans and Military Families (IVMF) at Syracuse University. The numbers likely reflect a more career-minded subset of the military than the force as a whole, according to Peter Feaver, a former White House adviser to former President George W. Bush who is now a political science professor at Duke University.

“These are people for whom the morals and standards of the military mean a lot,” he said. “The president has criticized those same career workers in the State Department and other agencies. So, it’s possible they are more likely to be offended by the president than other parts of the military.”

Still, Feaver said, the drop in Trump’s popularity in the poll (conducted with the same parameters over the past four years) indicates growing dissatisfaction with Trump and his handling of several military issues.

When asked specifically about Trump’s handling of military issues, nearly 48 percent of the troops surveyed said they had an unfavorable view of that part of his job, compared to 44 percent who believe he has handled that task well. That marks a significant drop from the 2018 Military Times poll, when 59 percent said they were happy with his handling of military issues, against 20 percent who had an unfavorable view.

In the time since the 2018 poll, Trump fired his popular former defense secretary, retired Marine Corps Gen. Jim Mattis. Trump also ordered a controversial and sudden withdrawal of U.S. forces from Syria, and became the subject of impeachment hearings in the House over the delay of military assistance funding to Ukraine.

Also, in the days before the poll closed in December, Trump made the controversial decision to grant clemency to three warfighters accused of war crimes, a move that was opposed by many military leaders at the Pentagon.

“Over time, as the president has been involved with more controversial things connected to the military — whether it’s the border wall or the pardons or the way that Secretary Mattis left — that has changed the view of him,” said retired Marine Corps Col. Dave Lapan, who worked as a department spokesman during both the administrations of Trump and Obama.

“And they’ve seen more indications that he hasn’t been a great commander in chief. So, they’re moving closer to where the rest of the public is.”


quote:
Differences in the ranks

Similar to past surveys, this poll showed significant gaps in views of the president among various subsets of the military.

Trump is far more popular with enlisted service members than with officers. Among the enlisted force, the recent survey showed a 43 percent favorable rating. For officers, however, only one-third responded with a positive view.

Military men appear to be more supportive of Trump compared to military women. Among men, the survey shows a 43 percent favorable view, while among women service members, 53 percent of women expressed a “very unfavorable” rating of Trump and 56 percent responded negatively.

The survey also shows a gap among white and non-white service members. Among whites, 46 percent of troops had a favorable view of the president, versus 45 percent with an unfavorable view. Yet among non-white service members nearly two-thirds responded with a negative view of him.

Some of the shift in military sentiments could be linked to the firing of Mattis, who a year after his dismissal still enjoys an exceptionally high — 86 percent — favorability rating among all service members in the poll.

Trump’s replacement for Mattis, current Defense Secretary Mark Esper, does not inspire strong feelings one way or the other. Esper drew a 24 percent approval rating from troops and a 20 percent disapproval rating, with 56 percent saying they have no strong opinion of the Pentagon leader.


quote:
Military decisions

Troops surveyed by Military Times offered generally upbeat assessments of Trump’s steps in Afghanistan (59 percent said they approve of plans to negotiate with the Taliban and reduce troop levels there) and his promises to intervene less overseas (47 percent believe he will keep U.S. forces out of another major military conflict).

Yet 58 percent of those polled said they disapprove of Trump’s decision to withdraw U.S. forces from northern Syria in the face of Turkish military advances.

When asked about Trump’s decision to use military construction funds to build his controversial southern border wall, 59 percent said they disapprove of his decision. More than half rated current U.S. relations with “traditional allies” like NATO as poor.

Lapan said he thinks those topics have had more resonance with troops than some of the controversies early in Trump’s presidency, like his public spats with former prisoner of war Sen. John McCain.

“His comments with McCain were upsetting to a lot of folks, but it was probably more in the senior ranks,” he said. “For junior troops, Mattis is much more popular. And these other decisions affect them. So they are changing their minds more.”

Troops were split evenly on the ongoing impeachment proceedings in Congress. In the poll, 47 percent said they back the impeachment, 46 percent said they were opposed. That’s roughly the same breakdown as the rest of the American public.

Feaver called that an interesting and potentially problematic finding, given that Trump will still be commander in chief if he is impeached by the House but acquitted by the Senate.

“I’m sure senior leaders won’t be happy seeing that half of them wanted him impeached, given the efforts to keep troops out of politics," Feaver said.

More than three-fourths of troops surveyed said they believe the military community has become more polarized in recent years, with about 40 percent saying they have seen significantly more division in the ranks.



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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3810
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001


Message 49 of 67 (869906)
01-07-2020 11:56 PM


So, it's looking that Pence would be a better President
Ah say "So, it's looking that Pence would be a better President".

Moose

Edited by Minnemooseus, : So, how do you spell "I" in a southern accent?


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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5982
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.9


(3)
Message 50 of 67 (869907)
01-08-2020 1:34 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Faith
01-05-2020 4:27 PM


Re: Pence and his extreme agenda
Trump ran to serve America, he loves America, everything he does is for America. And he's done so to his own detriment.

Of course he loves America... and Hitler loved Germany... Putin loves Russia. Kim Jong-Un loves North Korea... What kind of metric is blind patriotism alone?

Trump serves himself. You are hopelessly deluded and naive to believe that his run for office was motivated by selfless civic duty, lol, get serious. Trump ran because he is a dyed-in-the-wool megalomaniac with a raging case of narcissistic personality disorder. He covets almighty mammon (his real god), he craves power, and desperately needs to be the center of attention (Twitter rants like a teenage girl).

How, Faith? How is it possible for you to be this blind to such an obvious, self-serving sycophant? Its almost too much to believe.

As to Pence, yes, he at least is an actual professing Christian... not that its any better, but I would at least think that you would be able to distinguish the difference between the two. You see things the way you want to see them, not as they actually are.

Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.

Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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Replies to this message:
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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5982
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 51 of 67 (869908)
01-08-2020 2:11 AM
Reply to: Message 35 by Faith
01-07-2020 5:23 AM


Re: Pence and his extreme agenda
There are many more military people who support what Trump did than oppose him. There are wimpy conservatives too, so what. Being scared of what Iran could do to us is about as wimpy stupid as you can get.

via Imgflip Meme Generator

Thank god you don't have your finger on the nuclear button... the world would have been vaporized 12,000 times over by now.

Its not what Iran can do to us, its what it does to the US image worldwide and how much support we can muster because of it. I'll be perfectly honest with you. Part of me was like fuck that guy, fuck the Quds forces, fuck the Ayatollah, fuck Iran. Why? Because they've been mindlessly chanting "Death to America" for four decades now and have recently been making some very bold moves that practically begged for an outcome like this. Part of me thinks its nice to be able to demonstrate to the naysayers that the US can target anyone, at anytime.... do NOT fuck with us.

That's my ego getting in the way.

The other side of me, the more rational part of me, says this is a dangerous gambit. First of all, the president did not seek congressional authority. Instead he used war powers under the pretense that "an attack was imminent." Has anyone seen any evidence to support this unsubstantiated claim?

What the president authorized was an act of war. There's just no other way to put it. Now it gives Iran, of all fucking places, the moral high ground to launch a counter-assault AND have the rest of the planet say, "Well, shit, they're justified."

Its not that the US is wimpy because of what Iran can or can't do... do you understand that Iran is supported by China and Russia? Talk to me about wimpy during your nuclear winter -- you're starving to death, freezing to death, because the Russian military just took out the Eastern seaboard and you have no electricity, there's looting and panic in the streets. Oh, you can't tell me about it because what's "the internet?" A thing of the past as we plunge headlong back into the Stone Age.

All that assuming you survive the actual blast, dear. Oh, but we got those Red bastards back... they're dying too. Well, hoorah for all us!!! Now the whole planet is gonna die, not just us. We sure showed them!!!

This is a dangerous game we're playing... how short our memories are when it comes to world wars and their ineffable horrors. You don't get it. But you just might find out with bravado like that.

Lastly, this goon is talking about attacking "cultural sites" in Iran.... lol, what??? Yeah, don't attack military compounds or critical infrastructure... lets go after mosques and piss off a billion Muslims. Brilliant strategy. We'll for sure have the moral high ground then.

Use your fucking brain!!!!


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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dwise1
Member
Posts: 4050
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.6


(1)
Message 52 of 67 (869929)
01-08-2020 8:03 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Minnemooseus
01-07-2020 11:56 PM


Re: So, it's looking that Pence would be a better President
Ah say "So, it's looking that Pence would be a better President".

Depends on what you mean by "better".

Pence would most certainly be far more competent (or at least closer to adequate) than Trump as a public official and even just as a human (though only because we're comparing him to Trump.

So in the sense that Pence would be far less likely to blunder us into a massive war out of sheer shtupidity, ignrance, greed, and mental illness, then, yes, Pence would be a better President than Trump.

But at the same time, if Pence has intentions to do evil, then his greater competence would enable him to do much more damage than Trump, whose administration has been called "The Gang That Couldn't Shoot Straight" for good reasons. It was like the comparison made in the 2016 GOP Primaries between Trump who, like a bull in a china shop, would destroy government and the Constitution out of sheer shtupid blundering (as we have witnessed over the past three years), whereas Cruz would know exactly where to plant the charges to demolish the whole thing.

Since most of the harm that Trump has done has been at the behest of those close to him, employing him as a "useful ID10T", Pence has no doubt planted some of those evil seeds in Trump's ear. But which ones? I find it hard to tell, though it's clear that it has happened.

So then a President Pence would be far worse than Trump, because he wouldn't have to count on a "f**king morron" to do his evil deeds and foul it all up, but rather he could do those deeds himself and ensure that they get done.


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ringo
Member
Posts: 18019
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


(4)
Message 53 of 67 (869952)
01-09-2020 11:04 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by Hyroglyphx
01-08-2020 1:34 AM


Re: Pence and his extreme agenda
Hyroglyphx writes:

Of course he loves America... and Hitler loved Germany... Putin loves Russia. Kim Jong-Un loves North Korea...


If you love ice cream, is it about what you can do for ice cream or what ice cream can do for you?

Hyroglyphx writes:

What kind of metric is blind patriotism alone?


I would call Trump an "accidental patriot". He happened to be born in a country that lets him plunder and pillage as a capitalist. If he had been born in Soviet Russia he might have been able to plunder and pillage as a Communist. A plunderer and pillager can "love" any country.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 5982
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 54 of 67 (869987)
01-10-2020 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by ringo
01-09-2020 11:04 AM


Re: Pence and his extreme agenda
I would call Trump an "accidental patriot". He happened to be born in a country that lets him plunder and pillage as a capitalist. If he had been born in Soviet Russia he might have been able to plunder and pillage as a Communist. A plunderer and pillager can "love" any country.

Precisely. I see Trump loving America the same way a parasite loves its host.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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Faith
Member
Posts: 35107
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 55 of 67 (870229)
01-15-2020 6:37 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by Hyroglyphx
01-10-2020 11:41 AM


Re: Pence and his extreme agenda
I would call Trump an "accidental patriot". He happened to be born in a country that lets him plunder and pillage as a capitalist. If he had been born in Soviet Russia he might have been able to plunder and pillage as a Communist. A plunderer and pillager can "love" any country.

Precisely. I see Trump loving America the same way a parasite loves its host.

So you guys despise the American Dream by which anybody can get rich, become a big success and whatnot. You have no reason whatever to say such things about Trump, none. ALL his supporters know he is a worker on behalf of traditional America. Perhaps his vicious detractors are merely envious? That's what drives the Left, nothing but envy. The rich in America have for the most part made it because of the American Dream, fair and square. And most of them are very generous givers too. Instead of tearing them down you should be taking them as role models.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


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Replies to this message:
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vimesey
Member
Posts: 1071
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 56 of 67 (870231)
01-15-2020 7:10 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by Faith
01-15-2020 6:37 AM


Re: Pence and his extreme agenda
Instead of tearing them down you should be taking them as role models.

Like the guys at Boeing, prepared to sacrifice innocent peoples' safety and lives for a relatively modest decrease in cost and increase in profit ?

No thanks - I'll stay a decent human being, thank you.


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by Faith, posted 01-15-2020 6:37 AM Faith has responded

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 Message 57 by Faith, posted 01-15-2020 7:17 AM vimesey has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 35107
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 57 of 67 (870232)
01-15-2020 7:17 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by vimesey
01-15-2020 7:10 AM


Re: Pence and his extreme agenda
Oh a MASTER of deceitful rhetoric. You guys are SO good at that.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 58 by vimesey, posted 01-15-2020 7:23 AM Faith has responded

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1071
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 58 of 67 (870233)
01-15-2020 7:23 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by Faith
01-15-2020 7:17 AM


Re: Pence and his extreme agenda
Deceitful how for goodness' sake ? You described these guys as role models - I pointed out the folly of that by reference to a real life example - in what way is that deceitful ?

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Faith, posted 01-15-2020 7:17 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Faith, posted 01-15-2020 7:26 AM vimesey has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 35107
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 59 of 67 (870234)
01-15-2020 7:26 AM
Reply to: Message 58 by vimesey
01-15-2020 7:23 AM


Re: Pence and his extreme agenda
I had good people in mind so you pick out some you accuse of being bad and make them stand for the whole group. That's deceitful.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 58 by vimesey, posted 01-15-2020 7:23 AM vimesey has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 60 by vimesey, posted 01-15-2020 7:32 AM Faith has responded

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1071
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 3.9


(2)
Message 60 of 67 (870236)
01-15-2020 7:32 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by Faith
01-15-2020 7:26 AM


Re: Pence and his extreme agenda
Nope - you bunched all of the rich and successful together and labelled them role models - you didn't differentiate, so I pointed out one example of a bunch of rich, entitled assholes.

There are definitely some good rich people, but I am not going to take someone as a role model, just based on their wealth.

I bump into pretty rich people a lot in my job. Purely anecdotally, I would say 25% are good people or average - and 75% assholes. And generally, the asshole percentage increases as the wealth does.


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Faith, posted 01-15-2020 7:26 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
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