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Author Topic:   Coronavirus and Pandemics
RAZD
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Posts: 20628
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 211 of 362 (874115)
03-25-2020 10:29 AM
Reply to: Message 181 by Faith
03-24-2020 1:59 PM


Re: The Quinine Drugs Problematic Miracle Cure?
Whatever THAT was was certainly a bad idea, but what was it?

Moral don't take anything suggested by some person on the internet.

Enjoy


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This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by Faith, posted 03-24-2020 1:59 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19636
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 212 of 362 (874116)
03-25-2020 10:37 AM
Reply to: Message 196 by Faith
03-24-2020 9:02 PM


Re: we need to test everybody.
In a message further on you ask what it is you've said that was error or ignorance, so before replying I'll note that this message of yours is yet another filled with error and ignorance.

Faith writes:

You say Cuomo is "doing something about it?" What is he doing besides yelling about needing things that aren't available...

Here's what Cuomo is doing about it:

  • Closed non-essential businesses
  • Reduced street density, particularly in NYC
  • Increased testing to highest level in US and highest per capita level around the globe
  • Requested supplies from the national stockpile, which even if it were all shipped to New York would be insufficient.
  • Initiated investigations of possible alternative means of treatment, such as Hydroxychloroquine and Zithromax, DOH plasma injection, and testing for antibodies to detect those who were unknowingly infected and have recovered and are now immune.
  • Increasing hospital capacity by converting the Javits Center (1000 beds), Westbury, Westchester Convention Center and Stoneybrook. Thinks can get to 100,000, need projected to be 140,000.
  • Working to addressing problem of beds, staff and equipment
  • Instructed existing hospitals to increase capacity by 50%-100%
  • Contacting all medical professionals not currently active (retired, otherwise employed, etc.) to staff hospitals.
  • Working to acquire ventilators. Have 7,000, need minimum additional 30,000. Need is urgent because the time when they'll be needed is only 14-21 days off. Pence says they are shipping 2000 ventilators per day to New York.
  • Experimenting with splitting ventilators between two people.
  • Pressuring federal government to invoke the Defense Production Act.

Now you tell us what Trump is doing, besides spreading a great deal of misinformation.

Cuomo was wrong about one thing. He said, "No American is going to say, 'Accelerate the economy at the expense of human life.'" He's wrong because there are at least a couple Americans saying exactly that. The Lieutenant Governor of Texas said that elderly Americans would gladly sacrifice their lives to get the economy going. And more notably, Trump himself wants business restarted by Easter, less than two and half weeks away, a move widely opposed by health professionals.

...that his own state's liberal laws limited in such a way that they can't be available?

You're promoting a conspiracy theory that Trump pulled from Gateway Pundit, a website "known for publishing falsehoods and spreading hoaxes." (The Gateway Pundit - Wikipedia)

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Wordsmith the first sentence, the original was poorly written.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by Faith, posted 03-24-2020 9:02 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 218 by JonF, posted 03-25-2020 11:19 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 219 by JonF, posted 03-25-2020 11:22 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19636
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 213 of 362 (874117)
03-25-2020 10:40 AM
Reply to: Message 197 by Faith
03-24-2020 9:11 PM


Re: The Quinine Drugs Problematic Miracle Cure?
Faith writes:

I only mentioned their huge audiences because Percy seemed to be saying nobody listens to them.

Wrong again. I said you shouldn't be getting your health information from them.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 197 by Faith, posted 03-24-2020 9:11 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19636
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 214 of 362 (874118)
03-25-2020 10:46 AM
Reply to: Message 198 by Faith
03-24-2020 9:30 PM


Re: The Quinine Drugs Problematic Miracle Cure?
Faith writes:

You accuse me of "error and ignorance" but have failed to mention any instances of these in this discussion.

Practically every reply to you is a correction of your error and ignorance. This thread alone abounds with evidence of it, as do many others. I can't count the number of times I've ended a reply to you by commenting that you've managed to get through yet another post without saying anything true.

To find evidence of your error and ignorance just read almost any reply to you anywhere.

Please stop deflecting attention from the topic by demanding evidence of the incredibly obvious that is already omnipresent. If you're saying things you're not willing to own up to then I suggest not saying them in the first place.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by Faith, posted 03-24-2020 9:30 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19636
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 215 of 362 (874119)
03-25-2020 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 201 by xongsmith
03-25-2020 12:42 AM


Re: interesting article:
xongsmith writes:

Coronavirus: The Hammer and the Dance

Kinda grim in that it seems what the US is doing is WRONG. We should be doing both lines of attack with the full kitchen sink of strategies.

Kinda very, very long. I skimmed it but think I have the essence: put the hammer down now and stop all interaction that is non-essential. Implement extremely widespread testing as quickly as possible so people don't circulate in the population before they know they're infected.

Please correct as necessary.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 201 by xongsmith, posted 03-25-2020 12:42 AM xongsmith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 230 by caffeine, posted 03-25-2020 4:02 PM Percy has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19636
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 216 of 362 (874120)
03-25-2020 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 204 by Tangle
03-25-2020 3:34 AM


Tangle writes:

If anything good comes out of this at all, it might be that even the Trumpian deluded masses will notice that Trump made a total horlicks of this. Well those that survive it.

I didn't read the article, but I did see a headline in Google News that said Trump's approval rating is at an all time high.

Meanwhile Trump surrounds himself with people that just nod and fiddles as Rome burns - he wants the country "opened up and raring to go by Easter Sunday," He really is a dangerous, self-serving arsehole.

But a highly approved one.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by Tangle, posted 03-25-2020 3:34 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19636
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 217 of 362 (874121)
03-25-2020 11:12 AM
Reply to: Message 205 by Faith
03-25-2020 6:05 AM


Re: The Quinine Drugs Problematic Miracle Cure?
Faith writes:

I'm not interested in proving anything beyond what I just proved about how you say you doubt something when you have zero evidence of it. That's enough.

Well, that's as clear as mud. Didn't you tell me you were going to begin quoting what you're replying to, just after I totally dismantled your claim that you usually quote?

Beyond that I asked you what "errors and ignorance" you are imputing to me, which you didn't answer at all. Far as I know I've committed neither error nor ignorance in this discussion.

I would venture that most of us are completely mystified about how you can make claims like this after saying almost nothing true throughout even long threads like this one, and being called on it time after time.

Surprise us all by saying something true in your reply.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by Faith, posted 03-25-2020 6:05 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 5956
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 218 of 362 (874122)
03-25-2020 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 212 by Percy
03-25-2020 10:37 AM


Re: we need to test everybody.
{dupe)

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by Percy, posted 03-25-2020 10:37 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
JonF
Member
Posts: 5956
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.3


Message 219 of 362 (874123)
03-25-2020 11:22 AM
Reply to: Message 212 by Percy
03-25-2020 10:37 AM


Re: we need to test everybody.
Lou Dobbs And Brit Hume are on board for whacking us olds.

Death Panel Guy Glenn Beck Calls For Oldsters To Sacrifice On The Altar Of St. Wall Street

Brit Hume And Tucker Carlson Discuss Who Should Live And Who Should Die

Oh, and...

For Republicans there is no more reliable source of accurate information on coronavirus than Trump: poll

quote:
A new poll shows for Republicans there is no more reliable source of accurate information on coronavirus than President Donald Trump. Nine out of 10 Republicans say Trump is the most reliable source of accurate information on coronavirus, and more see him as accurate than the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC).

“Who do you trust and not trust to give you accurate information about the virus and what to do during the outbreak?” a CBS News/YouGov poll asked.

For Republicans, 90% said President Trump, tying medical professionals. 84% said the CDC, 81% said their friends and family, 71% said religious leaders, 65% said their governor, and just 13% said the national media, social media, and online sources.



This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by Percy, posted 03-25-2020 10:37 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 20628
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 220 of 362 (874124)
03-25-2020 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 175 by Faith
03-24-2020 11:44 AM


Cuban Interferon Innoculation used against Covid-19 - where's the news?
Used successfully in China and Italy and other locations

US news curiously silent, while Trump pushes untested likely bogus flu vaccine ...

Cuba uses "wonder drug" to fight coronavirus around the world despite U.S. sanctions

quote:
Cuba has mobilized its medical corps around the world to distribute a new "wonder drug" that officials there say is capable of treating the new coronavirus despite the United States' strict sanctions that continue to pressure the communist-run island.

The drug, called Interferon Alpha-2B Recombinant (IFNrec), is jointly developed by scientists from Cuba and China, where the coronavirus COVID-19 disease outbreak first emerged late last year. Already active in China since January, the Cuban Medical Brigades began deploying to dozens of nations, providing personnel and products such as its new anti-viral drug to battle the disease that has exceeded 400,000 confirmed cases across the globe. As of Tuesday, over 100,000 people have recovered from the infection and more than 18,000 have died.


Could US sanctions and presidential bias be preventing Americans from getting treatment that works elsewhere in the world?

Just wondering.

Enjoy

Edited by RAZD, : No reason given.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel•American•Zen•Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 175 by Faith, posted 03-24-2020 11:44 AM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 222 by Percy, posted 03-25-2020 1:49 PM RAZD has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19636
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 221 of 362 (874125)
03-25-2020 1:12 PM
Reply to: Message 207 by Faith
03-25-2020 6:22 AM


Re: we need to test everybody.
Faith writes:

You say the companies that are reorganizing to produce the medical supplies aren't yet up and running, but I've been hearing that they are and one thing that is now being produced in great numbers is the testing kits.

Can you cite a news article presenting information that would confirm this is true? Or is this from your rosy-picture conservative talk shows again?

A Google News search did not find any articles about companies that have already retooled and are producing medical supplies. 3M has ramped up mask production to 100 million per month, which is around 20 per month for each medical field related worker in the US. The actual need is closer to 20 per day. A number of companies have announced plans to produce masks, but only small ones I've never heard of. My wife plans to make more surgical masks for the local hospital, which recently provided an actual sewing template for what will work best for them. It includes a pocket for a filter insert (you can find them on Amazon, but they're out of stock), which is kind of interesting since it means they have N95 filters but no masks to slip them into.

The only thing you said that can be verified is that test kit production is increasing, but I already knew and I expect everyone else did to. Because it's true. Which is why it was reported in the news. Which you don't read, instead preferring conservative entertainment programs purporting to be news.

Cuomo is getting many of those kits and that's why he can tell that the number of cases is apparently doubling every day though perhaps the tests are simply picking up cases that have existed for some time.

Though the situation has improved, the number of test kits in New York is still so meager that they can only test those with symptoms. Until recently many displaying symptoms were turned down for the test, contributing to the problem.

Again I note that the reason they are particularly in short supply of all kinds of medical necessities in New York is that they are one of the states that adopted the ridiculous law that limited how many of such supplies hospitals and other health services were allowed to buy.

You are again promoting a conspiracy theory that has no evidence.

The Left is truly a scourge on this country.

I think the scourge is the person making things up and then casting aspersions.

The liberal crap they put in the stimulus package was disgusting partisan opportunism and it only serviced their own destructive goals of changing America into a third world socialist swamp. I think saner heads prevailed at least to the extent of getting some of that removed. Trump is trying to do what the country needs, support the businesses that hire the workers that make the country prosper while the Left tries to destroy the source of prosperity.

This is just your usual claptrap. Do you have anything specific the left did that you object to?

I think it's Budweiser that is putting out hand sanitizer and I hear that is also underway already.

Let the world note that Faith has said something true. It isn't clear that production has actually begun, but if it hasn't already then it should be soon. Many other beer makers and distilleries are doing the same.

I can't find this at Google, but then Google is another Leftist destroyer of America and do their best to suppress anything good that the Trump administration does, same as all our corrupted media these days.

What do you mean you can't find it at Google? Can you truly be so incompetent? Go to Google News or Google, doesn't matter which one, and enter "budweiser hand sanitizer". You'll get links to literally dozens of articles.

Sheesh!

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by Faith, posted 03-25-2020 6:22 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 19636
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 222 of 362 (874126)
03-25-2020 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 220 by RAZD
03-25-2020 12:12 PM


Re: Cuban Interferon Innoculation used against Covid-19 - where's the news?
Interferon alfa-2b - Wikipedia was developed by Biogen, an American company. I think the term "recombinant" describes the technique employed to create it.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 220 by RAZD, posted 03-25-2020 12:12 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 223 by RAZD, posted 03-25-2020 2:47 PM Percy has responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 20628
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 223 of 362 (874128)
03-25-2020 2:47 PM
Reply to: Message 222 by Percy
03-25-2020 1:49 PM


Re: Cuban Interferon Innoculation used against Covid-19 - where's the news?
Curious. There are several articles about this drug, also involving Charles Weissmann at the University of Zurich, but with Cuba being the first to isolate it.

Doing a search for Interferon alfa-2b the top stories are about Cuba

Cuba's wonder drug
Cuba’s Contribution to Combatting COVID-19 - CounterPunch.org
Cuba’s Interferon drug effective against coronavirus

The fourth is about the drug: Interferon alfa-2b Uses, Side Effects & Warnings - Drugs.com

What I see from the articles is Cuban doctors working with

quote:
The world's first biotechnology enterprise, Genetech, was founded in San Francisco in 1976, followed by AMGen in Los Angeles in 1980. One year later, the Biological Front, a professional interdisciplinary forum, was set up to develop the industry in Cuba. ... Cuban biotechnology expanded and took on an increasingly strategic role in both the public health sector and the national economic development plan. ...

... In March 1981, six Cubans spent 12 days in Finland with the Finnish doctor Kari Cantell, who in the 1970s had isolated interferon from human cells and had shared the breakthrough by declining to patent the procedure. The Cubans learned to produce large quantities of interferon.

Within 45 days of returning to the island, they had produced their first Cuban batch of interferon, the quality of which was confirmed by Cantell's laboratory in Finland. ...


Cuba proceeded to produce large quantities and used it to combat dengue.

Even still I see no mention of it's use in the US even though it is proven effective in China and elsewhere, and that is the issue at question.

Enjoy.


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel•American•Zen•Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 222 by Percy, posted 03-25-2020 1:49 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 227 by Percy, posted 03-25-2020 3:08 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
caffeine
Member
Posts: 1786
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 224 of 362 (874129)
03-25-2020 2:57 PM
Reply to: Message 181 by Faith
03-24-2020 1:59 PM


Re: The Quinine Drugs Problematic Miracle Cure?
Whatever THAT was was certainly a bad idea, but what was it?

Is Chloroquine PHOSPHATE the same thing I've been talking about?

It is, but the ews says they drank fish tank cleaner. You can get almost pure chloroquine phosphate for fish tanks, but god knows if that's what this was. No idea on the dosage either - maybe they drank 50 times the amount you'd include as a medicine.

Moral of the story - don't drink fish tank cleaner. Idiots.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 181 by Faith, posted 03-24-2020 1:59 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 16052
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 225 of 362 (874130)
03-25-2020 3:01 PM
Reply to: Message 205 by Faith
03-25-2020 6:05 AM


Re: The Quinine Drugs Problematic Miracle Cure?
Bloomberg is reporting that hydroxychloroquine is no more effective than the standard treatment.

The study involved just 30 patients. Of the 15 patients given the malaria drug, 13 tested negative for the coronavirus after a week of treatment. Of the 15 patients who didn’t get hydroxychloroquine, 14 tested negative for the virus.

Four patients given the medicine developed diarrhea and signs of potential liver damage, compared with three getting conventional treatment.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by Faith, posted 03-25-2020 6:05 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
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