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Author Topic:   Morality without God is impossible
Junior Member
Posts: 18
From: Irvine CA 92606
Joined: 03-10-2024

Message 462 of 472 (917500)
04-09-2024 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 451 by Tangle
01-07-2024 3:36 AM

Re: The evolution of morality
"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.
So you rely on Tim Minchin, beat poet, for your "science"?
“If we need an atheist for a debate, we go to the philosophy department. The physics department isn’t much use.” - –Robert Griffiths, winner of the Heinemann Prize in mathematical physics.
“A new scientific truth does not triumph by convincing its opponents and making them see the light, but rather because its opponents eventually die…..” – Max Planck
Never was this truer than in the subject of Darwinism.
The Insuperable Statistics of Naturalistic Polypeptide Synthesis
Titin is the largest protein in the human body. It consists of 38,138 amino acid residues in a precise sequence. The first naturalistic synthesis, whether stepwise or in one single, continuous process, consisted of “selecting” 1 out of 20 amino acids which make up humans, 38,138 times in succession, or 1/20 to the 38,138th power. This is equal to 1 in 10 to the 49,618th power. The pretense of claiming that “sections” of any protein were “assembled” overlooks the unassailable fact that any “section,” however small, had to be assembled under the same statistical constraints. Whether one does the computations in one step or 1,000 steps, the figures are beyond dispute. They get a great deal worse, in fact.
Only Levorotary (left-handed) amino acids were used, not Dextrorotary (right-handed) amino acids, so 1 in 10 to the 49,618th power has to be multiplied by 1/2 to the 38,138th power or 1 in 10 to the 11,480th power. One more time for all consecutive peptide bonds, which are equally probable as the random formation of non-peptide bonds, thus 1/2 to the 38,138th power. The product of these three essential elements of original Titin synthesis is 1 chance in 10 to the 72,578th power (not counting whatever calculation is appropriate for the precise folding of the chain).
Finally, “selection,” that magic word Darwin so popularized, demands that at each successive step, there must be some advantage conferred, otherwise the random mutation cannot prevail and multiply. No one has ever proposed any original synthesis with breakdowns of thousands of intermediaries and each of their “selective” advantages.
Titin is only one of more than 20,000 polypeptides (proteins and enzymes) in the human body.
Pseudoscientific sophisticates claim that large proteins were “assembled” from smaller component blocks. Sorry, that does not obviate the requisite statistics, it attempts to wave them away. Every smaller component still was the result of arbitrary picking of the correct amino acid out of 20 different possibilities, in L form, with a peptide bond, and precise folding.
As a means of comparing a number as enormous as 20 to the 38,138th power, consider that the number of fundamental particles in the universe is approximately 10 to the 80th.
In 1943, the distinguished French mathematician Émile Borel stated that “events with a sufficiently small probability never occur” (Institute of Mathematical Statistics).
Dr. Borel chose a fairly safe number, 10 to the minus 50.
Ten to the 50th marbles1 cm in diameter would fill 923,400,000,000,000,000,000,000 spheres the size of earth. This is 923,400 billion billion.
Until man duplicates a blade of grass, nature can laugh at his so-called scientific knowledge. – Thomas Edison

This message is a reply to:
 Message 451 by Tangle, posted 01-07-2024 3:36 AM Tangle has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 463 by Taq, posted 04-09-2024 3:23 PM ChemEngineer has replied
 Message 464 by Admin, posted 04-09-2024 4:07 PM ChemEngineer has replied

Junior Member
Posts: 18
From: Irvine CA 92606
Joined: 03-10-2024

Message 465 of 472 (917512)
04-09-2024 4:14 PM
Reply to: Message 463 by Taq
04-09-2024 3:23 PM

Re: The evolution of morality
Taq: Titin evolved WELL after the first life appeared on Earth as shown by the absence of titin in any prokaryotic genome. If you think titin had to occur through abiogenesis then you don't understand abiogenesis, evolution, or even basic biology.
ChemEngineerMBA: YOU said "occur through abiogenesis," I did not.
Atheists, Darwinists and other Leftists have the nasty habit of putting your words in the mouths of those who disagree with you and then condemning them/us for the words YOU dishonestly put into our mouths.
I said "Original synthesis." As in the first human who had titin in their muscles. Try to see the difference between "abiogenesis," your term, and "original synthesis." I know, it's hard.

Titin evolved by many duplications of a handful of sequences, not one codon at a time.
ChemEngineerMBA: "handful of sequences." Does that come terribly close to 10 to the 79,000 in number of possible sequences? I'll answer that question. "No, it does not. Trillions of trillions is effectively zero compared to 10 to the 79,000.

There is also massive variation in titin sequences across life, demonstrating that there are many, many different protein sequences that will perform this function.

Why don't you join us here in the real world?
ChemEngineerMBA: The "real world" as claimed by Richard Dawkins and his hateful ilk? Sorry but that is not "real." It is angry make-believe. Ten to the minus 50 is "impossible." You're trying to compensate for that with a "handful." There is nothing remotely "real world" about your hand-waving.
I have read several of Dawkins' books and critiqued them, and sent my critiques to his publisher. The best Dawkins could do was call me names and ignore my valid critiques. Same thing occurred with Isaac Asimov and Carl Sagan.
Many thousands of scientists around the world have published papers and books refuting your Darwinian religion. That would not be remotely possible if it were "real world" as you claim.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 463 by Taq, posted 04-09-2024 3:23 PM Taq has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 467 by Taq, posted 04-09-2024 4:50 PM ChemEngineer has not replied

Junior Member
Posts: 18
From: Irvine CA 92606
Joined: 03-10-2024

Message 466 of 472 (917515)
04-09-2024 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 464 by Admin
04-09-2024 4:07 PM

Re: Moderator Comment
Moderator Comment:
Most of your post is a cut-n-paste from The Evolution Fraud or some similar webpage.

It is the policy of EvC Forum that posts be original contributions. The goal is for discussions to avoid become mere cut-n-pastes.
This website does not make it easy to respond with quotes. I hit the "REPLY" link and it only comes up with REPLY WITHOUT QUOTE. I see no link for "REPLY WITH QUOTE.
That's one problem.
Second is the absence of a simple link to embed an image in a reply. Why do you make it so difficult?
In other websites, it's very simple.
As for 'cut-n-paste,' I am the original author of the assessment of titin's insuperable statistics. I wrote it and submitted it to a biochemistry professor who agreed with it completely and then a friend who has a PhD in biochemistry who seconded the vote.
Then I posted it on my website which I have assembled over a period of decades from a wide variety of sources. So my posts are anything but "cut-n-paste."
What seems to me to be cut-n-paste is the universal condescension and snideness of Darwinists, who follow Richard Dawkins' advice: "Ridicule them! Mock them! With contempt!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 464 by Admin, posted 04-09-2024 4:07 PM Admin has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 468 by Taq, posted 04-09-2024 5:00 PM ChemEngineer has not replied
 Message 470 by Admin, posted 04-09-2024 5:44 PM ChemEngineer has not replied

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