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Author Topic:   Morality without God is impossible
ringo
Member
Posts: 19230
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 36 of 306 (872692)
03-02-2020 11:01 AM
Reply to: Message 23 by Phat
03-01-2020 11:27 AM


Re: Morality with God is imaginary
Phat writes:

Tell that to Abraham as he sacrificed his son.


Too busy snapping the cuffs on him.

It's funny that you'd pick one of the most immoral acts in the Bible as an example.


"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Phat, posted 03-01-2020 11:27 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Phat, posted 03-02-2020 5:11 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19230
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 52 of 306 (872735)
03-03-2020 10:38 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by Phat
03-02-2020 5:11 PM


Re: Morality with God is imaginary
Phat writes:

The fact is, they were Theo-centric.


Paul disagreed with you. He said that even the Gentiles know right from wrong, with or without "God's law".

Phat writes:

Your problem is that you view these events from a human-centric perspective.


That isn't a problem; it's the solution.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Phat, posted 03-02-2020 5:11 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19230
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 53 of 306 (872736)
03-03-2020 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 40 by Phat
03-02-2020 7:19 PM


Re: Morality with God is imaginary
Phat writes:

While the ideas about God were written by humans, God the concept is Himself Creator of all things---including humans.


All concepts - including God - are conceived by humans.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Phat, posted 03-02-2020 7:19 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Phat, posted 03-03-2020 11:04 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19230
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 54 of 306 (872737)
03-03-2020 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by Phat
03-03-2020 10:38 AM


Re: Morality with God is imaginary
Phat writes:

I hit this same roadblock with ringo. He always has stated that the message requires no messenger.


That isn't quite right. The message requires no specific messenger. Any messenger will do.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Phat, posted 03-03-2020 10:38 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19230
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 58 of 306 (872742)
03-03-2020 11:10 AM
Reply to: Message 56 by Phat
03-03-2020 11:04 AM


Re: Morality with God is imaginary
Phat writes:

We have no proof of this. As you once argued with Stile, there may be a "place" we've overlooked or not examined. Your "all" is tentative at best.


I said in Message 53, "All concepts - including God - are conceived by humans." That has nothing to do with the reality of God or whether we might some day find evidence of God.

You said in Message 40, "While the ideas about God were written by humans, God the concept is Himself Creator of all things---including humans." The concept is human imagination, period. Whether or not there is a God, whether or not we ever find evidence of Him, the concept is entirely made up by humans.

If we ever did find evidence of God, our concept of Him would likely change a lot.


"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Phat, posted 03-03-2020 11:04 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by Phat, posted 03-03-2020 11:32 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19230
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 63 of 306 (872749)
03-03-2020 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 61 by Phat
03-03-2020 11:32 AM


Re: Morality with God is imaginary
Phat writes:

So would you then argue that morality with or without God is essentially the same thing?


Would you argue that morality with or without unicorns is essentially the same thing?

Phat writes:

Have we now proof that morality is a human responsibility?


What does "proof" have to do with it? If humans are not moral, who will be?

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Phat, posted 03-03-2020 11:32 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19230
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 86 of 306 (872837)
03-05-2020 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 84 by Aussie
03-05-2020 2:00 PM


Re: A Universal Morality
Aussie writes:

I'm curious as to why you think that if there is some other sense of morality out there, that it must be better than ours by default....


That's what I always wonder. Why would a god's morality benefit us at all?

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Aussie, posted 03-05-2020 2:00 PM Aussie has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 92 by Taq, posted 03-05-2020 2:47 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19230
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 89 of 306 (872841)
03-05-2020 2:26 PM
Reply to: Message 87 by GDR
03-05-2020 2:10 PM


Re: A Universal Morality
GDR writes:

Emotions affect our moral behaviour in a given moment but it isn't an emotion.


It's a long-term function (what we learned from Mommy and Daddy and TV) and a short-term function (looser when it concerns sombody we're currently mad at) but if it isn't a brain function, what is it?

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 87 by GDR, posted 03-05-2020 2:10 PM GDR has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19230
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 114 of 306 (872900)
03-06-2020 11:56 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by GDR
03-06-2020 11:48 AM


Re: An External Morality
GDR writes:

Resurrection into a new renewed physical existence is not the same thing as resuscitation into body that is still subject to decay.


I would think that resuscitating the old chemicals would be more impressive.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by GDR, posted 03-06-2020 11:48 AM GDR has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19230
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 133 of 306 (872926)
03-06-2020 7:49 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by GDR
03-06-2020 7:06 PM


Re: An External Morality
GDR writes:

The resurrected Jesus appears in locked rooms...


It doesn't actually say that though, does it?

John 20 says the room was "closed". (I would guess thst locks were fairly rare in those days.) And it just says Jesus appeared in their midst, nothing about walking through walls. There's no reason to conclude from what it actually says that He had any new voodoo super-powers.


"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by GDR, posted 03-06-2020 7:06 PM GDR has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19230
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 170 of 306 (873128)
03-10-2020 12:22 PM
Reply to: Message 159 by Tangle
03-09-2020 12:32 PM


Re: Are the morals of a lion the same as an antelope?
Tangle writes:

I doubt you'll find many people agreeing with you that choosing between good and bad things to eat is a moral decision.


Is it moral to eat magic mushrooms while driving?

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 159 by Tangle, posted 03-09-2020 12:32 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19230
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 199 of 306 (873306)
03-13-2020 11:53 AM
Reply to: Message 193 by Phat
03-12-2020 3:34 PM


Re: A Universal Morality
Phat writes:

... human survival instincts are stronger than our altruistic ones, when we are threatened.


Clearly false.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 193 by Phat, posted 03-12-2020 3:34 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
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