Morality without God is impossible

Candle, GDR believes what he believes because he's not insane enough to believe what you believe. He prefers a different story. There are lots of stories.One morning, Thor woke up and found that his mighty hammer, Mjolnir, was missing. He searched everywhere in his hall, but he could not find it. He was furious and suspected that someone had stolen it. He called his loyal servant, Thjalfi, and asked him to help him find his hammer.They went to the palace of Freyja, the goddess of love and beauty, and asked her if she had seen Mjolnir. Freyja said that she had not, but she offered to lend Thor her feather cloak, which could make him fly like a bird. Thor thanked her and put on the cloak. He flew across the nine worlds, looking for his hammer, but he could not find it anywhere.He returned to Asgard, the home of the gods, and met Loki, the trickster god. Loki asked him what was wrong, and Thor told him that his hammer had been stolen. Loki said that he knew who had taken it: it was Thrym, the king of the frost giants. He had hidden Mjolnir in his hall in Jotunheim, the land of the giants, and he would only give it back if Freyja agreed to marry him.Thor was outraged and said that he would never let Freyja marry a giant. He asked Loki to help him get his hammer back. Loki agreed and said that he had a plan. He put on Freyja’s feather cloak and flew to Jotunheim. He found Thrym in his hall, surrounded by his giant kin.Loki greeted Thrym and said that he had come as Freyja’s messenger. He said that Freyja had accepted Thrym’s proposal and was willing to marry him, but only if he gave her Mjolnir as a bridal gift. Thrym was overjoyed and said that he would do so. He ordered his servants to bring Mjolnir and place it on Freyja’s lap.Loki smiled and said that he would go back to Asgard and bring Freyja to Jotunheim for the wedding. He flew away with Mjolnir in his hands. He met Thor on the way and gave him his hammer back. Thor was delighted and thanked Loki for his cleverness.They returned to Asgard and told Freyja what had happened. Freyja was relieved and glad that she did not have to marry Thrym. She took back her feather cloak from Loki and thanked him for his help.Meanwhile, Thrym waited for Freyja in his hall, but she never came. He realized that he had been tricked by Loki and became angry. He swore revenge on Thor and Loki for stealing his bride and his hammer.But Thor was ready for him. He wielded Mjolnir and struck down Thrym and his giant kin with thunder and lightning. He reclaimed his honor and his hammer, and no one dared to steal it again.

AZP, do you honestly belief that humans are basically
animals much like dogs, cats, hippos, etc...?

Tangle, it doesn't bother me in the least that you believe
in Thor, or Loki, or the tooth fairy. If they are your gods, so
be it.I won't criticize you for it.

... and fish, octopus, arachnids, crabs ... Animalia is a rather diverse lot, not just mammals.I don't know how basically you want to get but humans are basically bacteria that got smart. Some would say too smart.But, yes, all the evidence of reality we do have makes us but another animal. Does that bother you?

I think if you reread for comprehension this time that you'll find Tangle did not profess belief in anything as a god, but since you brought it up, what are the criteria for criticism for belief in any god?--Percy

AZ, do you know that cats and other animals kill for fun.
Sharks, for one, eat smaller animals of their own species.A number of animals regularly engage in cannibalism,
which includes mothers eating their own.Why would atheists and evolutionists expect humans to
be any different. Aren't we just animals?How come A&E don't call cats, sharks, etc... serial killers?If we are all just animals, who will evolve into something
else in a million years, why not just do what Aleister
Crowley, the great Satanist, advised: "do what thou wilt?"If we are just animals, it would be to our benefit to rid the
world of three quarters of us. There would be less
competition for the available resources.Why not get rid of the sick and aged, as well as those with
low IQ's? They take more than they give.

Percy, if you would learn to read between the lines, you
would see that I was toying with him.

Gosh, what a wag! It's been ages since I've been toyed with. How I laughed!
Who said right-wing fundamentalist loonies have no sense of humour?How are you getting on with that question I asked you?

I can't see that you can classify everything in the Bible as mythological. That however is not an argument that has anything to do with the accuracy of Biblical accounts.However, a mythology can lead us to truth in a methodical way. I'd suggest that this is true in the Genesis accounts regarding creation.
Also Tolkien coined the term "true mythology" in regards to the resurrection of Jesus. Here is an account of that along with Lewis's view. Tolkien and Lewis on true mythology Certainly being a Christian shouldn't make anyone feel special, but clearly it appears that it often does. I can't speak for other religions but frankly the same can be said for atheists who can't be fooled by all this religious nonsense. Sure we can find meaning in our lives whether it being about making money, number of sexual partners or the love of having power over others, along with some positive things like being a good parent or to being admired for our altruistic efforts.However in the end if civilization is destined for oblivion one way or another then all we've done is part of that. There is just nothingness. There is no hope. The Christian story does give hope and I contend that there is a rational reason to believe that hope will be realized, and that there is an external purpose and meaning for human existence.​

​Generally speaking, if something is myth, it ain't accurate. Stories give hope. But they're inventions - they're not real. There is no rational reason behind your belief, it's just a hope for something other than what is. The sooner we give up this nonsense and deal with the reality of life and grow up, the sooner we can improve our lives here. This is all we have and that's fine.

I've seen that claim. I don't know about fun but my cats sometimes bring me little presents of love. Apparently not a lot of intellectual empathy in those samples.
​ We don't. Who says otherwise? As stated, yes. A number of reasons. Social constructs all.That appellation seems to be reserved for describing some humans and our gods. Though I seem to recall a bengal tiger in 1903 being so labeled after its reign of hundreds of dead. Just didn't like humans. No, no, this gal really hated us. Bad KittyAnd, for most part, animals are not deemed sufficiently morally aware to completely overcome instinct. We acknowledge their drive in the face of instinct, we forgive them our own hateful thoughts, then we shoot them dead for revenge anyway and go hunt their families for sport.For most of human history we did this with humans, too. Not the forgiving part but the hunting and shooting part. We are not yet removed from the religious violence of the last few centuries. Excellent advice. For the vast majority of people that means setting up a fruitful, productive, pain-free life with friends.Your Satan has the right idea. Yes, it would be to our benefit ("our" being those not slaughtered, incinerated, starved). Thank you for that reminder, Comrade Joseph. We'll give your religious recommendations to the death committees in the next plenary session. We could. I know you religionists try that from time to time, like now in Afghanistan, Rwanda.But there is a big problem taking over big parts of the world. Secular Humanism. You're not allowed to do that anymore.Yes, Candle2, you are a human: a population of animals evolved on and presently ravaging, raping and ruining the Earth.

OK, so what's your point? So far it looks like standard run-of-the-mill fundamentalist bullshit.Yes, we are animals. So what?Are you trying to deny that we are animals? If so, then what are we? Vegetable?
Mineral? What? Obviously we are animals. And just as obviously we are Chordata (we have a spinal cord). And Tetrapoda (our bodies have four limbs and bilateral symmetry). And mammals. And primates. And Hominidae. And Homininae. And Hominini. And Homo (though sole surviving species to our knowledge).If you want to deny that we are animals, then please present your alternative. But you mentioned "just animals". What is that supposed to mean? That only we matter, are special and superior? BTW, you do realize that the Bible is just a book. See how denigrating that kind of wording is?Of course we like to think we are special, like in the Irish proverb:

quote:

---

Níl aon tóin tinn mar do thóin tinn fhéin.

There's no sore bum like your own sore bum.

---

Reading between the lines (since you never say what you really mean), that is that fundie old moldy rotten chestnut: "If you teach children that they're just animals, then what else can they do but to act like animals!"But what does that even mean? I feel quite sure of what you think it means, but what you think is completely divorced from reality.Yes, animals do indeed behave like animals. Like their specific species of animal. To borrow from a younger generation, way after my time: Ya THINK?"Barring any mal-imprinting (eg, Koko, given the task of sorting photographs into two piles: human and non-human (more specifically gorilla types as I seem to recall), would put her own photo in the Human pile and her parents' photos in the Gorilla pile):

• Dogs behave like dogs.
• Cats behave like cats.
• Frogs behave like frogs.
• Birds behave like birds (different species of bird behaving like itself though differently from the other species of bird).
• Snakes behave like snakes (again, different species of snake behaving after its own species, but differently from other snakes).
• Pigs behave like pigs.
• Fish behave like fish (and yet again, different species of fish will behave after its own species, but in ways that are very different than in other fish).

And Homo sapiens sapiens behave like Homo sapiens sapiens. Ya THINK? We call it "human nature", an idea that can be ported to all other species with very little difficulty.So, do we Homo sapiens sapiens behave like animals? Yes we do! What kind of animals? Homo sapiens sapiens! Ya THINK?Now, is human nature a pretty thing? Not really. Could we do better? We do try, but it's not easy.Ironically, while religion may aspire to help us behave better, it fails miserably. Instead, much more often religion serves to rationalize bad behavior and even promotes the commission of atrocities.

Is that really what you thought you were doing?What about that question I asked you, about the criteria for criticism of any religion?--Percy

Is this just turning into a Choosing a faith annex?--Percy

Well, it isn't historical so what else would you call it?