Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 78 (8965 total)
49 online now:
Coragyps, dwise1, kjsimons, Percy (Admin) (4 members, 45 visitors)
Newest Member: javier martinez
Post Volume: Total: 873,113 Year: 4,861/23,288 Month: 1,766/1,286 Week: 80/353 Day: 7/20 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Covid-19 and religion.
jar
Member
Posts: 32355
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


Message 46 of 131 (873176)
03-10-2020 8:41 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by vimesey
03-10-2020 5:36 PM


Re: Inadequate containment of the virus
Come on. Isn't the name "Boris" a big enough clue?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by vimesey, posted 03-10-2020 5:36 PM vimesey has not yet responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2904
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 47 of 131 (873177)
03-10-2020 9:22 PM
Reply to: Message 42 by Faith
03-10-2020 4:56 PM


Re: Inadequate containment of the virus
by the time china started to panic over the virus, it has already spread to the USA. Unless trump has precognition, or you want to compleatly close your borders its was impossible to stop the spread of this virus to the united states. You could have started testing early and quarantined the virus this way. But trump is against that, the US compared to China or South Korea is basically not testing for the virus because it would be bad for his numbers. Now that the virus has spread you can do what the Chinese did, lock down hot zones, use drones to remind people that there is a quarantine, use drones to spray people with antivirals, have every surface disinfected after use, have the temperature of delivery people written on the receipt... and you could slow down the virus this way. But you know that is not happening in trumps america so be prepared for millions of deaths. The virus is more infectious then the flue and has a fatality rate of 3,4%. Under current conditions the best case scenario is 50 million people will get infected in the US, of that 1 700 000 will die.

Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Faith, posted 03-10-2020 4:56 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 48 by Faith, posted 03-10-2020 10:31 PM frako has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 35110
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 48 of 131 (873180)
03-10-2020 10:31 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by frako
03-10-2020 9:22 PM


Re: Inadequate containment of the virus
Trump acted sooner than Obamas acted about the HN1 virus, a lot earlier, Thousands had already died by the time Obama got around to it. Trump had a travel ban in place three weeks after we heard about the virus. He's the one who wanted to keep people on the cruise ship from coming into the country, but he was overruled. And he's been working hard talking to the people who are making the test kits and all that. This relentless attack on him is totally unwarranted. He's been an extremely good President in every possible way and this is one of them. He does NOT act for his own interests, he ALWAYS acts for the country. Always. You all just make it up out of whole cloth. He's completely competent in his role.

And I'm sure all the necessary precautions ARE being taken by all the health care people who have the responsibility for them. Trump has also influenced the insurance companies to cover treatment without co-pay. And besides Trump there are many independent people and agencies the country who are working on the problems involved, labs and pharmaceutical companies and the works. Bill Gates is one who is using his billions to fund testing methods or something like that.

Trump is doing his job but this is America and not everything comes down from the top as it does in China and other totalitarian countries. Hey I heard that in North Korea a guy got sick with the virus and Kim solved the problem by killing him.

We have enough trouble with our own Leftists, we don't need to hear from you foreigners. Stay out of it.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 47 by frako, posted 03-10-2020 9:22 PM frako has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 50 by frako, posted 03-11-2020 5:57 AM Faith has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 35110
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 49 of 131 (873181)
03-10-2020 10:50 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by dwise1
03-10-2020 5:13 PM


Re: Inadequate containment of the virus
I'm glad to hear the military may be able to prevent the spread of the virus among them, if that is what you are saying.

Trump is not *****. Trump is the most transparent President we've ever had. And he is doing everything within his power to prevent the spread of this virus.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by dwise1, posted 03-10-2020 5:13 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2904
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010
Member Rating: 3.5


(1)
Message 50 of 131 (873182)
03-11-2020 5:57 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by Faith
03-10-2020 10:31 PM


Re: Inadequate containment of the virus
He's the one who wanted to keep people on the cruise ship from coming into the country, but he was overruled.

Yea cause it would look bad for his numbers as he said. As long as they arw quarantined they present no danger to anyone but trumps numbers.

And he's been working hard talking to the people who are making the test kits and all that.

He rejected the WHO's testkits made his own that dint work. You do know that South Korea is testing 10 000+ people a day. The US barely tested 2000 people. They have drive trough testing facilities. Cmmon america is the king of drive troughs and you couldn't manage that. The reason you are not testing to that extent because it would look bad for trumps numbers.

And lets not forget trump encouraged people to go to work if their symptoms are mild. Encouraging the spread of the virus.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Faith, posted 03-10-2020 10:31 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 51 by Faith, posted 03-11-2020 7:40 AM frako has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 35110
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 51 of 131 (873183)
03-11-2020 7:40 AM
Reply to: Message 50 by frako
03-11-2020 5:57 AM


Re: Inadequate containment of the virus
I get so sick of how people impute evil motives to Trump for anything he says or does, without the slightest evidence for it. It doesn't matter what he does it will be trashed by the Left and explained in terms of some kind of scurrilous motivation, WITHOUT ANY JUSTIFICATION for such accusations. He's doing his best for the country, that's what his supporters know about him, he is motivated by his love for America in just about everything he does, and if he makes mistakes, well they are mistakes, they are not some kind of nefarious action. I don't know what it will take for people to see the truth about this, maybe the bias against him is so ingrained they never will. What is that bias based on ? I don't think I even know. Something about his style, the way he expresses himself? What? He doesn't deserve a tenth of what is said against him.

He has been trying to calm down the hysteria that has been stirred up by the Left, but when he says things in that effort the Left treats it as his not caring about it, which is false. Doesn't matter what he says, the left will twist it into something negative. I'm just glad that more and more people are seeing through this.

That was from the second video. I have no idea what terrible thing you are trying to prove about Trump by posting the first video but all I get out of it is that he would rather have the people stay on the ship because he is afraid of the disease spreading if they get off, but that he is allowing the CDC to make the decision to take them off, trusting that it will not increase the numbers of sick people in the country. There's something wrong with that?

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 50 by frako, posted 03-11-2020 5:57 AM frako has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 52 by frako, posted 03-11-2020 7:47 AM Faith has responded

  
frako
Member
Posts: 2904
From: slovenija
Joined: 09-04-2010
Member Rating: 3.5


Message 52 of 131 (873184)
03-11-2020 7:47 AM
Reply to: Message 51 by Faith
03-11-2020 7:40 AM


Re: Inadequate containment of the virus
No bias he literally said he dint want the cruise ship to dock because it would be bad for his numbers. He literally said that people get over the virus by going to work.

I wonder why air force one was allowed to land with a corona virus case on board, shouldn't trump practice what he preaches. Or why Ted Cruze is isolating himself shouldn't he get over the virus while working.


Christianity, One woman's lie about an affair that got seriously out of hand

What are the Christians gonna do to me ..... Forgive me, good luck with that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 51 by Faith, posted 03-11-2020 7:40 AM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 53 by Faith, posted 03-11-2020 7:53 AM frako has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 35110
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 53 of 131 (873185)
03-11-2020 7:53 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by frako
03-11-2020 7:47 AM


Re: Inadequate containment of the virus
For pete's sake, what do you think he meant about the "numbers?" All he meant was that he didn't want the numbers of the sick to increase in the country, that's why he preferred that they didn't get off the ship.

And about people going to work, the way I hear it all he was saying was that the disease is very mild in most cases and doesn't require quarantine. He wasn't telling people to go to work he was commenting on the mildness of the cases, and this was in his effort to try to calm people down while the Left was being hysterical and stirring everybody up..

It's as if people on the Left can't stop and think about what' he's saying you're so geared to finding the worst possible construction to put on it. It usually involvdes some preconception about his motives as if you could read his mind. It's totally unwarranted.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 52 by frako, posted 03-11-2020 7:47 AM frako has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 61 by frako, posted 03-11-2020 2:53 PM Faith has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 35110
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 54 of 131 (873186)
03-11-2020 8:11 AM
Reply to: Message 43 by RAZD
03-10-2020 5:01 PM


Re: Inadequate containment of the virus
A cruise ship is not designed for hospital usage. The air ventilation/AC/heating ducts (HVAC) run from room to room rather than isolated ducts for each room.

I was trying to picture this. They bring air INTO the room from a point of origin don't they? They don't take air OUT of the room and pass it on to the next room do they? But if there is a problem of the virus spreading this way, OK, but then that would only be floor by floor wouldn't it? In other words the hospital could occupy a floor and the vents wouldn't affect anything but what's on that floor, and locations could be chosen according to how bad the effect might be from the vents at any particular distance from the source.

But this is all just academic pondering since they aren't going to use the ship as a hospital anyway.

The walls are constructed with no standard for zero air leakage between them.

OK, then perhaps all this is a reason why moving the people to military bases may have been a better decision but I'm only hearing all this from you, not from any public source.

The argument that base personnel would be infected is spurious, as these are the same people that would be sent on board for any conversion work, for providing food and for providing the medics.

Savage says he had studied epidemioilogy so I doubt he's as stupid as you make him out to be, and you may not be picturing it as he pictured it. I think he had in mind that whoever went on board had to stay on board. The whole point was to keep the virus from spreading outside the ship. I hope you all are right that the quarantine on the bases will be sufficient to prevent its spread among the military.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by RAZD, posted 03-10-2020 5:01 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by RAZD, posted 03-11-2020 10:51 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 16052
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 55 of 131 (873197)
03-11-2020 9:59 AM


The National Review isn’t impressed
President Trump Needs to Step Up on the Coronavirus

At the same time, however, it is important that the president’s defenders not be blinded by partisanship of their own into excusing failures of leadership and diminishing the danger of the epidemic itself. This can be particularly difficult because some of the most significant inadequacies of the administration have been the president’s own. So far in this crisis, Donald Trump himself has obviously failed to rise to the challenge of leadership, and it does no one any favors to pretend otherwise.

So, it’s not just “leftists”.

Trump so far hasn’t passed muster on any of these metrics. He resisted making the response to the epidemic a priority for as long as he could — refusing briefings, downplaying the problem, and wasting precious time. He has failed to properly empower his subordinates and refused to trust the information they provided him — often offering up unsubstantiated claims and figures from cable television instead. He has spoken about the crisis in crude political and personal terms. He has stood in the way of public understanding of the plausible course of the epidemic, trafficking instead in dismissive clichés. He has denied his administration’s missteps, making it more difficult to address them

Replies to this message:
 Message 56 by Faith, posted 03-11-2020 10:27 AM PaulK has responded

  
Faith
Member
Posts: 35110
From: Nevada, USA
Joined: 10-06-2001
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 56 of 131 (873198)
03-11-2020 10:27 AM
Reply to: Message 55 by PaulK
03-11-2020 9:59 AM


Re: The National Review isn’t impressed
O blithering partisan nonsense. Yes partisan. These must be "never Trumpers." If you compare Trump's actions to Obama's or other Presidents in similar situations Trump comes out better than the rest of them . both when it comes to acting in a timely manner and acting as a leader. Of course no examples are given in the article, it's all just the usual accusation without evidence.

And it sounds like the usual objection to his style more than anything else when they say he speaks in "crude political or personal terms." Oh dear o dear, crude political and personal terms. Isn't what matters WHAT he said and WHAT he proposed and WHY?

Edited by Faith, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 55 by PaulK, posted 03-11-2020 9:59 AM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by PaulK, posted 03-11-2020 12:01 PM Faith has not yet responded

  
RAZD
Member
Posts: 20628
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 57 of 131 (873200)
03-11-2020 10:51 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by Faith
03-11-2020 8:11 AM


Re: Inadequate containment of the virus
I was trying to picture this. They bring air INTO the room from a point of origin don't they? They don't take air OUT of the room and pass it on to the next room do they? But if there is a problem of the virus spreading this way, OK, but then that would only be floor by floor wouldn't it? In other words the hospital could occupy a floor and the vents wouldn't affect anything but what's on that floor, and locations could be chosen according to how bad the effect might be from the vents at any particular distance from the source. ...

When the fans are off the air can drift in and out. The systems are not set up for continuous fan use. Even with the fans on there will be pressure differences between rooms that can cause air to be sucked into the vents and distributed to other rooms.

When I was in ICU at Dana Farber (2007) for an autogenic stem cell transplant, I was in a room with positive air pressure from dedicated sterilized air supply and the entrance to the room was like an air-lock. Obviously it is not feasible to convert a commercial ship to this standard.

Savage says he had studied epidemioilogy ...

quote:
Epidemiology - Wikipedia

Epidemiology is the study and analysis of the distribution (who, when, and where), patterns and determinants of health and disease conditions in defined populations.

It is a cornerstone of public health, and shapes policy decisions and evidence-based practice by identifying risk factors for disease and targets for preventive healthcare. Epidemiologists help with study design, collection, and statistical analysis of data, amend interpretation and dissemination of results (including peer review and occasional systematic review). Epidemiology has helped develop methodology used in clinical research, public health studies, and, to a lesser extent, basic research in the biological sciences.[1]

Major areas of epidemiological study include disease causation, transmission, outbreak investigation, disease surveillance, environmental epidemiology, forensic epidemiology, occupational epidemiology, screening, biomonitoring, and comparisons of treatment effects such as in clinical trials. Epidemiologists rely on other scientific disciplines like biology to better understand disease processes, statistics to make efficient use of the data and draw appropriate conclusions, social sciences to better understand proximate and distal causes, and engineering for exposure assessment.

The distinction between "epidemic" and "endemic" was first drawn by Hippocrates,[3] to distinguish between diseases that are "visited upon" a population (epidemic) from those that "reside within" a population (endemic).[4] The term "epidemiology" appears to have first been used to describe the study of epidemics in 1802 by the Spanish physician Villalba in Epidemiología Española.[4] Epidemiologists also study the interaction of diseases in a population, a condition known as a syndemic.

The term epidemiology is now widely applied to cover the description and causation of not only epidemic disease, but of disease in general, and even many non-disease, health-related conditions, such as high blood pressure, depression and obesity. Therefore, this epidemiology is based upon how the pattern of the disease causes change in the function of everyone.

Epidemiologists employ a range of study designs from the observational to experimental and generally categorized as descriptive, analytic (aiming to further examine known associations or hypothesized relationships), and experimental (a term often equated with clinical or community trials of treatments and other interventions). In observational studies, nature is allowed to "take its course," as epidemiologists observe from the sidelines. Conversely, in experimental studies, the epidemiologist is the one in control of all of the factors entering a certain case study.[38] Epidemiological studies are aimed, where possible, at revealing unbiased relationships between exposures such as alcohol or smoking, biological agents, stress, or chemicals to mortality or morbidity. The identification of causal relationships between these exposures and outcomes is an important aspect of epidemiology. Modern epidemiologists use informatics as a tool.

Observational studies have two components, descriptive and analytical. Descriptive observations pertain to the "who, what, where and when of health-related state occurrence". However, analytical observations deal more with the ‘how’ of a health-related event.[38] Experimental epidemiology contains three case types: randomized controlled trials (often used for new medicine or drug testing), field trials (conducted on those at a high risk of contracting a disease), and community trials (research on social originating diseases).[38]

The term 'epidemiologic triad' is used to describe the intersection of Host, Agent, and Environment in analyzing an outbreak.


There, now we have "studied epidemiology" ... we looked it up on the internet.

Curiously (or not) I'll trust an experience epidemiologist with experience working with epidemic diseases over some internet/radio host person who claims authority because he "studied epidemioilogy" ... such as people working for the CDC and who are fine with moving the passengers and crew to military base care.

These are not politicians or people with a political bias, Faith. Trust them.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel•American•Zen•Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by Faith, posted 03-11-2020 8:11 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18019
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 58 of 131 (873202)
03-11-2020 11:43 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by Chiroptera
03-10-2020 4:51 PM


Re: Inadequate containment of the virus
Chiroptera writes:

... there are going to be a lot of people working minimum wage jobs who'll get sick but decide the rent still needs to be paid and the kids need groceries and will go on into work.


And those are the people who will be interacting with the public - waiters, cashiers, etc.

"I'm Fallen and I can't get up!"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 41 by Chiroptera, posted 03-10-2020 4:51 PM Chiroptera has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 16052
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 59 of 131 (873206)
03-11-2020 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 56 by Faith
03-11-2020 10:27 AM


Re: The National Review isn’t impressed
quote:
O blithering partisan nonsense. Yes partisan. These must be "never Trumpers."

And as usual you write off all criticism with accusations of bias.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 56 by Faith, posted 03-11-2020 10:27 AM Faith has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 16052
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 60 of 131 (873210)
03-11-2020 1:28 PM


So much for transparency
White House told federal health agency to classify coronavirus deliberations

“We had some very critical people who did not have security clearances who could not go,” one official said. “These should not be classified meetings. It was unnecessary.”

The sources said the National Security Council (NSC), which advises the president on security issues, ordered the classification.”This came directly from the White House,” one official said.

A fifth source familiar with the meetings said HHS staffers often weren’t informed about coronavirus developments because they didn’t have adequate clearance. He said he was told that the matters were classified “because it had to do with China.”

More conspiracy theories about coronavirus as a bioweapon?


Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by hooah212002, posted 03-16-2020 9:12 PM PaulK has not yet responded

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2020