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Author Topic:   2020 Economic Adjustment: How Severe?
RAZD
Member
Posts: 20628
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 16 of 21 (874067)
03-24-2020 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 12 by Phat
03-24-2020 1:19 AM


Re: Some Basics
quote:
After the Dow Jones peaked in 1929, the index fell during the Great Depression ...

Note when it starts to rise and the steady growth in the 30's

quote:
Top 10 New Deal Programs of the Great Depression

To Act or Not to Act

Herbert Hoover was the sitting U.S. president when the stock market crash occurred in 1929, but he felt that the government should not take stringent action to deal with heavy losses by investors and the subsequent effects that rippled throughout the economy.

Franklin D. Roosevelt was elected in 1932, and he had other ideas. He worked to create numerous federal programs through his New Deal to help those who were suffering the most from the Depression. Besides programs built to directly help those affected by the Great Depression, the New Deal included legislation intended to correct the situations that led to the stock market crash of 1929. Two prominent actions were the Glass-Steagall Act of 1933, which created the Federal Deposit Insurance Corporation, and the Securities and Exchange Commission, created in 1934 to be a watchdog over the stock market and police dishonest practices. The SEC is one of the New Deal programs still in effect today. Here are the top 10 programs of the New Deal.

  1. Civilian Conservation Corps (CCC)
  2. Civil Works Administration (CWA)
  3. Federal Housing Administration (FHA)
  4. Federal Security Agency (FSA)
  5. Home Owners' Loan Corporation (HOLC)
  6. National Industrial Recovery Act (NIRA)
  7. Public Works Administration (PWA)
  8. Social Security Act (SSA)
  9. Tennessee Valley Authority (TVA)
  10. Works Progress Administration (WPA)

quote:
... and didn't fully recover until 1954, 25 years later.

The economy for the workers recovered sooner than the stock market (which is not a measure of worker economy)

I fear tough times. Its not fair to people like me. But it must be God's will. Either that or we caused it, as jar suggests.

Capitalism is not fair to workers unless they unite. As Bernie says "together we win"

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel•American•Zen•Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Phat, posted 03-24-2020 1:19 AM Phat has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by anglagard, posted 03-28-2020 3:04 PM RAZD has responded

  
anglagard
Member
Posts: 2218
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006
Member Rating: 8.1


(2)
Message 17 of 21 (874288)
03-28-2020 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by RAZD
03-24-2020 12:24 PM


Re: Some Basics
Phat? writes:

quote:... and didn't fully recover until 1954, 25 years later.

RAZD writes:

The economy for the workers recovered sooner than the stock market (which is not a measure of worker economy)

Just to elaborate on this point, between 1946-1952 the *actual* economy (not the DJIA) boomed like no one has seen before or since. This is why:

1. Wartime rationing and constantly shilling of war bonds caused huge amounts of personal saving, since spending opportunities were limited.
2. Returning veterans (some 11 million) also had some limited savings and caused an immediate upsurge in demand for products.
3. Dunning the Europeans for all that money loaned during WW2 kept the nation solvent.
4. The nation was relatively undamaged since the war was almost entirely fought outside of its main territory.
5. Republicans and Democratic centrists had not yet partially destroyed FDR's legacy (they didn't start until 1980 at the latest).

What evidence do I have?

1. Father 1908-1995; Mother 1924-2008. Every adult and nearly every adult relative in my childhood was a WW2 Vet and lived through the Great Depression. I received an earfull growing up.
2. Books.

Edited by anglagard, : Clean up spacing.

Edited by anglagard, : No reason given.


Death is only the end if you assume the story is about you. - Night Vale podcast

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by RAZD, posted 03-24-2020 12:24 PM RAZD has responded

Replies to this message:
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RAZD
Member
Posts: 20628
From: the other end of the sidewalk
Joined: 03-14-2004
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 18 of 21 (874295)
03-28-2020 5:24 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by anglagard
03-28-2020 3:04 PM


Re: Some Basics
Just to elaborate on this point, between 1946-1952 the *actual* economy (not the DJIA) boomed like no one has seen before or since. This is why:

Also add that the average worker was in a union, and the wages were sufficient for one worker in a family to earn enough to support a family, own a car, and get a mortgage on buying a house.

Enjoy


we are limited in our ability to understand
by our ability to understand
Rebel•American•Zen•Deist
... to learn ... to think ... to live ... to laugh ...
to share.


Join the effort to solve medical problems, AIDS/HIV, Cancer and more with Team EvC! (click)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by anglagard, posted 03-28-2020 3:04 PM anglagard has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by jar, posted 03-28-2020 5:39 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32356
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


(1)
Message 19 of 21 (874298)
03-28-2020 5:39 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by RAZD
03-28-2020 5:24 PM


Re: Some Basics
A house, a car, and new things like a refrigerator instead of an ice box and an electric range and dish washers and TV and washer/dryers.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by RAZD, posted 03-28-2020 5:24 PM RAZD has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Phat, posted 03-29-2020 2:05 AM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 13789
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 20 of 21 (874315)
03-29-2020 2:05 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by jar
03-28-2020 5:39 PM


That Was Then. This Is Now
Not too many analysts are optimistic about the economic future of the United States. About the only thing you called was that the bill Will Get Paid. My retirement is virtually wiped out, all I have is social security and a modest pension which could also evaporate, and the only solace I have is that many will share my boat. I know you always laugh at Biblical Literalist prophecy and predictions---you claim that it is silly and unproven. All I can say is that for many older Americans, surviving the coronavirus is just the first step. Avoiding homelessness is a real possibility.

“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by jar, posted 03-28-2020 5:39 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by jar, posted 03-29-2020 7:56 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32356
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.0


(2)
Message 21 of 21 (874320)
03-29-2020 7:56 AM
Reply to: Message 20 by Phat
03-29-2020 2:05 AM


Re: That Was Then. This Is Now
Phat writes:

I know you always laugh at Biblical Literalist prophecy and predictions---you claim that it is silly and unproven. All I can say is that for many older Americans, surviving the coronavirus is just the first step. Avoiding homelessness is a real possibility.

And again, that is totally up to you and the other US citizens. You get what you want. If you support a government that has empathy for the least of these then your retirement would be secure. If you support a government that says "let the old die if they have not prepared to take care of themselves" then yes, it will be out with the poor old and in with the new rich.

There is a reason that concierge health services and food services and private planes are doing very well during this period.

The rich are important and favored by God.

AbE:

Here is a relevant recent article that may help explain the reality of the current situation.

‘White-Collar Quarantine’ Over Virus Spotlights Class Divide

AbE2:

Here is part of the back story regarding pandemic preparedness.

The U.S. Tried to Build a New Fleet of Ventilators. The Mission Failed.

Edited by jar, : see AbE

Edited by jar, : AbE2


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Phat, posted 03-29-2020 2:05 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
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