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Author Topic:   Continuing the Endless Discussion between GDR and traditional Protestantism
Aussie
Member
Posts: 273
From: FL USA
Joined: 10-02-2006


Message 21 of 103 (874591)
04-06-2020 2:36 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Faith
04-06-2020 12:51 PM


And you are requiring me to explain for the zillionth time why the gathering of sticks, to build a fire on the sabbath, was considered by God to be such a horrific violation of His Law against any work on the Sabbath. You have no appreciation for the enormity of this offense and my explanation will as usual fall short of anything that might convince you. You are just going to go on judging it by your own utterly irrelevant feelings.

Hi Faith! I'm interested in this statement, and wonder if you would mind explaining to me and others reading (again, apparently) why God would required a brutal death for picking up sticks on the Sabbath.

To be completely transparent, I am asking as someone who literally, as you said of GDR, "has no idea of the enormity of the offense" of gathering firewood on a Saturday.

Also, I'm not hopeful that you are going to try to even poke a stick at a casual answer, let alone leave us with a thoughtful response...but I can hope.

You are just going to go on judging it by your own utterly irrelevant feelings.

If GDR is a believer, then he is a moral creature made in the image of God...God's law should be written on his heart. Understanding God's law should be the most natural thing in the world to a believer...and the fact that two such firm believers can disagree on such a fundamental moral issue as when you should kill people...is amazing to me.

Again Faith...try to reign in the arrogance a bit. He is trying desperately to have a reasonable conversation with you about a big moral issue... the indiscriminate killing of entire populations. How can you shrug that off as his own utterly irrelevant feelings? Wanting people to not die is not irrelevant, not in any morally nuanced conversation. I tried to engage you for a while on the last thread, but all I could get from you was "Stop judging God, God judges you, not the other way around!

What moral conversation can be held if all you end up saying is that if we question you, we are questioning God...and that He will judge us even more harshly for it...?

Edited by Aussie, : Grammar...


"...heck is a small price to pay for the truth"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Faith, posted 04-06-2020 12:51 PM Faith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 22 by Faith, posted 04-06-2020 2:43 PM Aussie has responded

  
Aussie
Member
Posts: 273
From: FL USA
Joined: 10-02-2006


Message 23 of 103 (874596)
04-06-2020 3:17 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Faith
04-06-2020 2:43 PM


Re: Why Picking Up Sticks on the Sabbath is Such a Terrible Sin Redux
This is the answer I gave above. I guess you didn't like it but it's the best I can do:
BUT the point is that the Sabbath in the OT is a symbol of the SALVATION TO BE GIVEN THROUGH CHRIST

You're right...you did explain. Sorry I missed the initial reference to the Sabbath, that was my fault.

Where moral minds disagree, is in the fact that God has no better way to teach a lesson, but in flowing rivers of blood. I mean...

Worst. Teacher. Ever.

By the end of the school year, The principal has personally killed a huge number of his students, and has talked a few of his more fanatical students into killing a large number of other kids in various classes, starting in pre-school and kindergaten; and this is fine, and cannot be questioned, because the students can't comprehend the mysterious teaching methods of the principle. And should they dare speak up about all the bloodshed, they will be the next in line for the knives, or stones, or fire.
But at least a small number, a Remnant, will survive to graduate.

I'm a father, and a teacher. How can I possibly think this is okay? I mean, can you give us anything but "YOU JUST CANT UNDERSTAND!" to go on? Anything?


"...heck is a small price to pay for the truth"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by Faith, posted 04-06-2020 2:43 PM Faith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by PaulK, posted 04-06-2020 5:21 PM Aussie has responded

  
Aussie
Member
Posts: 273
From: FL USA
Joined: 10-02-2006


Message 26 of 103 (874608)
04-06-2020 6:00 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by PaulK
04-06-2020 5:21 PM


Re: Why Picking Up Sticks on the Sabbath is Such a Terrible Sin Redux
Thinking about it I think Faith’s misread an attempt to explain the story as a parable. If the whole thing was symbolic it’s just disturbing rather than horrific.

Hi PaulK,

No, I don't think so, although disturbing is an improvement on horrific. They read Old Testament stories as literal events, yet also as a foreshadowing of what is going to happen in the future. They are referred to as "Types" and "Shadows." You may be familiar with this terminology. Depending on your personal predisposition towards Biblical interpretation, many...sometimes all... things in the OT is a foretelling of a future NT event. So the serpent in the Garden represents Satan of the NT, Noah's Ark, Cain and Abel's offerings, The Life of Joseph, the Offering of Isaac, the Wandering in the Wilderness, The Construction of the Tabernacle in the Wilderness, the different Feasts of Israel, the Various offerings of the Israelites, the function of the various tribes of Israel, (Tribes of Benjamin, Judah, Levi...). I could literally go on for ages; all represent a future promise that is fulfilled in the NT. This is a seriously deep and sometimes bizarre rabbit hole we could jump into.

The killing of the man was literal (In her brain), yet what God wanted was that by getting us to kill this guy for working on Saturday, we learned how seriously He takes His day of rest. Like disturb His naps at your peril, dude. All kidding aside, her type and shadow for this story was tortured to say the least, and hardly rigorous...but she tried.

At the end of the day she's still defending a lot of killing. I can think of a few other religious groups that defend it still today, so... *sigh*

Edited by Aussie, : Clarification...

Edited by Aussie, : No reason given.


"...heck is a small price to pay for the truth"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by PaulK, posted 04-06-2020 5:21 PM PaulK has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 27 by Faith, posted 04-06-2020 7:30 PM Aussie has not yet responded

  
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