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Author Topic:   Censorship vs Public Safety
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6012
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 31 of 58 (875180)
04-15-2020 5:34 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
04-14-2020 9:15 AM


Any further comments regarding Faiths banning can also be discussed here.

When was this? What was the final straw?


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 4977
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 32 of 58 (875181)
04-15-2020 5:39 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by mike the wiz
04-15-2020 4:21 PM


Believe it or not we can get up in the morning and put our socks on without Dawkins' help.

Yet you can't deal with the vagaries of the human condition without instruction from some blood monster on high?

No, Mikey. You need a lot more help than just with your socks.


Factio Republicana delenda est.

This message is a reply to:
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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6012
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 33 of 58 (875182)
04-15-2020 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Phat
04-14-2020 9:38 AM


Thanks for your concern. At my store we were all given masks and gloves. we also have hand sanitizer for cashiers and customer use though they still have none for sale. Nearly everyone respects social distancing though i do get coughed at occasionally. I try and keep discussions positive and help people find what they need. Our shelves are still depleted though not as much. We are entering some tough and challenging times as a nation.

A month ago, I saw about 15% of shoppers wearing masks and zero employees wearing masks or any other PPE. Two weeks ago I saw half the shoppers and half the staff wearing masks and some with gloves. I kept wanting to scream at them saying, "Its dickheads like you that this is going to go on longer than it needs to. Stop being a selfish prick. Its not that you can't survive after contracting it, its that others may not who get it from you!"

Today, I am happy to report that every single shopper was masked, the hoarding behavior has stopped, and only one employee was not protected. Progress.

Travis County just hit 900 confirmed cases this morning, which means you can expect that at least 400 cases where people are sick and don't know it because its in the incubation period.

For a city of this size, those numbers are relatively low compared to other cities of comparable size and population. But this will only get better when the overwhelming majority of people come to their senses.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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caffeine
Member
Posts: 1798
From: Prague, Czech Republic
Joined: 10-22-2008
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 34 of 58 (875188)
04-16-2020 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by Hyroglyphx
04-15-2020 5:34 PM


When was this? What was the final straw?

Apparently, suggesting that hydroxychloroquine should be used as a treatment for coronavirus. From which we can only conclude that Percy has completely lost the plot.

Unfortunately, he's not alone. The spectacle that is Donald Trump seems to somehow turned discussion over a proposed medical treatment into a hyper partisan issue of grave importance to millions of people.

It's bizarre to watch.


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JonF
Member
Posts: 6073
Joined: 06-23-2003
Member Rating: 2.4


Message 35 of 58 (875191)
04-16-2020 10:11 AM
Reply to: Message 22 by mike the wiz
04-15-2020 3:01 PM


Re: Banning Faith had no effect of her FAKE NEWS.
Scientists are those who do science. Scientific creden are not sufficient to make a scientist.

There are no "creation scientist".

Edited by JonF, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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Admin
Director
Posts: 12682
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 36 of 58 (875195)
04-16-2020 10:48 AM
Reply to: Message 31 by Hyroglyphx
04-15-2020 5:34 PM


Hyroglyphx writes:

Any further comments regarding Faiths banning can also be discussed here.

When was this? What was the final straw?

See Message 554.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Tangle
Member
Posts: 7618
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 37 of 58 (875203)
04-16-2020 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by Admin
04-16-2020 10:48 AM


This is Message 544 [ Corrected from where it original said "message 554". --Admin ]

Faith writes:

LET ME REPEAT THIS CRUCIAL POINT: HYDROXYCHLOROQUINE HAS BEEN USED FOR A LONG LONG TIME FOR MALARIA. A FRIEND OF MINE HAS FAMILY MEMBERS WHO TOOK IT WHEN THEY WENT TO MALARIA-RIDDEN COUNTRIES. SHE IS ALSO PART OF A MEDICAL COMMUNITY THAT HAS USED IT FOR YEARS. NONE OF THIS PROVES ITS EFFICACY FOR THE CURRENT VIRUS, ALL THAT DEPENDS ON THE ANECDOTAL EVIDENCE THAT IT HAS BEEN VERY EFFECTIVE. BUT YOU CAN'T SAY IT HASN'T BEEN TESTED IN WAYS THAT MATTER WHEN IT HAS A LONG HISTORY OF USE FOR MALARIA. IT OUGHT TO BE CONSIDERED WORTH A TRY FOR PEOPLE WITH SEVERE CASES OF THE VIRUS.

Ok she was doing her frustrated shouting again but there's nothing factually wrong with what she says, nor is she telling every to go out and poison themselves with it.

She even points out that just because it's proven safe to use as an antimalarial drug doesn't mean to say it's safe for CV19 use. For Faith, this is a balanced and accurate post.

You've got this one wrong Percy.

[ I never referenced the Faith message you cite. --Admin ]

Edited by Admin, : Fix message reference, add comment.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


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Replies to this message:
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dwise1
Member
Posts: 4163
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 38 of 58 (875204)
04-16-2020 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by caffeine
04-16-2020 9:51 AM


Apparently, suggesting that hydroxychloroquine should be used as a treatment for coronavirus.

She was also advocating letting infection run rampant in the name of imbuing us with herd immunity, all while somehow miraculously protecting those at risk.

And when King Tiny tries to proclaim the opening of the country, you can be sure that she would be supporting that disaster fully.


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 Message 34 by caffeine, posted 04-16-2020 9:51 AM caffeine has not yet responded

  
Admin
Director
Posts: 12682
From: EvC Forum
Joined: 06-14-2002
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 39 of 58 (875205)
04-16-2020 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Tangle
04-16-2020 12:52 PM


Just correcting the record, and I'll edit your message so it's correct. The message you quote from was Message 544 from Faith, not Message 554 from me. I cited no specific Faith message in my post.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Tangle, posted 04-16-2020 12:52 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8930
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 40 of 58 (875206)
04-16-2020 1:20 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Tangle
04-16-2020 12:52 PM


Not wrong
The nonsense that Trump and Faith spew adds to a general background that mixes people up.

It is best to muzzle such crap when it is at all possible.

Of course, those who say Faith will just go elsewhere are right. But Percy doesn't want to contribute to it in any way. He's only doing what he can do.

Besides she's an utter waste of everyone's time when she is here. She's not able to read.


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Replies to this message:
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Tangle
Member
Posts: 7618
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 41 of 58 (875207)
04-16-2020 2:15 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Admin
04-16-2020 1:20 PM


Ok, my bad, so what exactly have you turfed her out for?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Admin, posted 04-16-2020 1:20 PM Admin has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 42 by Phat, posted 04-17-2020 9:11 AM Tangle has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 13920
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.3


Message 42 of 58 (875214)
04-17-2020 9:11 AM
Reply to: Message 41 by Tangle
04-16-2020 2:15 PM


for a supposedly intelligent man you dont seem to get the obvious. This forum is the responsibility of Percy. Do you share in any of its upkeep? Oh tangled one whatever am I to do with you?

“The only way I know to drive out evil from the country is by the constructive method of filling it with good.”Calvin Coolidge
"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
“As the fear of God is the beginning of wisdom, so the denial of God is the height of foolishness.”-RC Sproul, Essential Truths of the Christian Faith

- You can safely assume that you've created God in your own image when it turns out that God hates all the same people you do.
Anne Lamott
Believe those who are seeking the truth. Doubt those who find it.~Andre Gide

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Tangle
Member
Posts: 7618
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.8


(2)
Message 43 of 58 (875217)
04-17-2020 11:03 AM
Reply to: Message 42 by Phat
04-17-2020 9:11 AM


Phat writes:

for a supposedly intelligent man you dont seem to get the obvious. This forum is the responsibility of Percy. Do you share in any of its upkeep? Oh tangled one whatever am I to do with you?

Percy can do what he likes with his forum but he normally has good reason to do them and he normally shares his reasoning. That's one of the things that make this a good place to be - sensible, transparent and proportionate moderating.

It appears on this particular point he'd rather take the arbitrary authoritarian route. That's a shame.

What's more Faith has been a member here for almost 20 years - an indefinite, total ban? Sorry, that's bollox.

Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 42 by Phat, posted 04-17-2020 9:11 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6012
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 44 of 58 (875279)
04-20-2020 3:51 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by NosyNed
04-16-2020 1:20 PM


Re: Not wrong
The nonsense that Trump and Faith spew adds to a general background that mixes people up.
It is best to muzzle such crap when it is at all possible.

North Korea and China agree that its best muzzle dissenters than have a robust conversation that changes minds through reasoned, well-articulated persuasion.

Besides she's an utter waste of everyone's time when she is here. She's not able to read.

Yeah, no one is disputing that she isn't a crazy, old coot with outlandish ideas... But that's kind of the point! LOL, who at EvC takes ANYTHING Faith says so seriously that they would actually take her advice regarding, well, anything? C'mon, get serious for a minute

She was banned for life under the pretense that she said something so dangerous that other people might follow her off a cliff.

Faith is a miserable human being that relishes her own ignorance... No dispute. I'm not defending her, per se, I'm defending free speech. Reinstate her so we can continue ignoring her gawd awful advice.

At the end of the day Faith is pretty much an institution at EvC -- a permanent fixture. Yeah, its ugly to look at but you can't imagine this place without it.

And to be fair to her, she loves this place... I don't know why since she's so nearly universally despised, but this place provides her a lot of meaning in her life. I don't wish any ill will towards her, I just wish that she would open her eyes to reality. All this will do for her is solidify her martyrdom that she's being persecuted for her religious and political beliefs.

In any event, your tenor and tone that we need to protect people from dangerous ideas is itself the most dangerous idea of all.

End rant.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8930
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 45 of 58 (875280)
04-20-2020 6:51 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by Hyroglyphx
04-20-2020 3:51 PM


Murky
My starting position has always been the same as yours. Free speech is a necessary part of a democracy.

However, maybe we have learned something from the Russians. It is not necessary to convince the masses of your point of view with propaganda. It is enough to muddy the waters so much that no one believes any source any more. This allows a response of "fake news" to anything you don't like hearing.

It is this effect that has to be considered when balancing the value of free speech against the downsides of allowing anyone to say anything. It is not just the case of yelling fire in a confined space.


This message is a reply to:
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