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Author Topic:   What have we accomplished?
Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 1240 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 121 of 263 (879204)
07-12-2020 8:58 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by Kleinman
07-12-2020 8:45 PM


i've gleaned enough to know that you're on to something. the mathematical models to prove evolution must be astronomical. you've exposed that the randomness they claim is a myth because they believe that the eyeball came from a single cell.
they are more predeterminate than immanuel kant going on his daily walk
however, the way these topics are broached, is broken. you may be a mathematically brilliant, but the way you present your ideas is in obfuscated language, and the evolutionist-idiots are the only ones willing to even try to understand what you're writing about here.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by Kleinman, posted 07-12-2020 8:45 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by Kleinman, posted 07-12-2020 10:34 PM Trump won has not replied

AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8513
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 5.3


(2)
Message 122 of 263 (879207)
07-12-2020 9:58 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by Kleinman
07-12-2020 8:45 PM


Hey, Kleinman. I think you found yourself a girlfriend.

Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by Kleinman, posted 07-12-2020 8:45 PM Kleinman has not replied

Kleinman
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 123 of 263 (879209)
07-12-2020 10:34 PM
Reply to: Message 121 by Trump won
07-12-2020 8:58 PM


a servant of Christ writes:
i've gleaned enough to know that you're on to something. the mathematical models to prove evolution must be astronomical. you've exposed that the randomness they claim is a myth because they believe that the eyeball came from a single cell.
You would be surprised how simple the mathematics of evolution is. It simply a variation of the coin tossing problem. Most people are very confused by random processes but they are actually very simple. For example, I can't tell you the outcome for any particular coin toss but if you toss the coin many times, about half the time you will get heads and half the time you will get tails. That's because this random process is symmetric (equal probabilities of outcomes). The random mutation problem is identical but is highly asymmetric, that is most of the time the mutation does not occur on replication. The frequency of that random process is the mutation rate. That's why it takes so many replications for just a single occurrence of that beneficial mutation. Once you understand the rules of probabilities, the rest of the math is quite straight-forward.
a servant of Christ writes:
they are more predeterminate than immanuel kant going on his daily walk
I had to look up Kant to try to get an idea of what you are trying to say here and it looks like some form of legalism.
a servant of Christ writes:
however, the way these topics are broached, is broken. you may be a mathematically brilliant, but the way you present your ideas is in obfuscated language, and the evolutionist-idiots are the only ones willing to even try to understand what you're writing about here.
It's not hard to get a sense of who understands this subject and who doesn't. Taq understands exactly what the consequences of this math is and how it affects the theory of evolution. That's why he brought recombination into the debate when talking about DNA evolution. And that's also the reason why he has bailed out of this discussion. I also think that Straggler gets it. The rest of the fish-to-mammals aficionados are simply blowing smoke and haven't figured out that their titanic theory of evolution has hit a massive mathematical and empirical iceberg.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 121 by Trump won, posted 07-12-2020 8:58 PM Trump won has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 124 of 263 (879211)
07-13-2020 12:32 AM
Reply to: Message 116 by Kleinman
07-12-2020 5:51 PM


Re: Self Serving Beliefs
And still no substantive answer.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Kleinman, posted 07-12-2020 5:51 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by Kleinman, posted 07-13-2020 6:20 AM PaulK has replied

Kleinman
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 125 of 263 (879227)
07-13-2020 6:20 AM
Reply to: Message 124 by PaulK
07-13-2020 12:32 AM


Re: Self Serving Beliefs
PaulK writes:
And still no substantive answer.
None that someone who thinks they descended from a banana would understand. But I do thank you for helping me write my conclusion to my next paper.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by PaulK, posted 07-13-2020 12:32 AM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by PaulK, posted 07-13-2020 2:50 PM Kleinman has replied

ringo
Member (Idle past 412 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 126 of 263 (879232)
07-13-2020 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by Kleinman
07-12-2020 5:09 PM


Re: Self Serving Beliefs
Kleinman writes:
Go publish a paper showing you are a direct descendent of bananas.
No a direct descendant. Distant cousins.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Kleinman, posted 07-12-2020 5:09 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by Kleinman, posted 07-13-2020 1:10 PM ringo has replied

Kleinman
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 127 of 263 (879234)
07-13-2020 1:10 PM
Reply to: Message 126 by ringo
07-13-2020 12:33 PM


Re: Self Serving Beliefs
Kleinman writes:
Go publish a paper showing you are a direct descendent of bananas.
ringo writes:
No a direct descendant. Distant cousins.
You can't even explain DNA evolution with direct descendants such as the Kishony and Lenski experiments. Of course, if you want to explain the bananas-to-ringo evolutionary process, we would find that very amusing. And then you can give us your moral justification for cannibalizing one of your cousins every time you eat a banana split.
And if you pick the correct genetic loci with only one base difference between you and a banana, plug that into the Jukes-Cantor model, you can show you are a direct descendant to a banana. I guess you would call that banana-picking. If you want to prove that you are a direct descendant to a cherry, you would have to cherry-pick that gene.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 126 by ringo, posted 07-13-2020 12:33 PM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by ringo, posted 07-14-2020 11:54 AM Kleinman has not replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 128 of 263 (879245)
07-13-2020 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by Kleinman
07-13-2020 6:20 AM


Re: Self Serving Beliefs
quote:
But I do thank you for helping me write my conclusion to my next paper.
If you were had read and understood
Models of DNA Evolution
And
Jukes Cantor Model of DNA Substitution
you wouldn’t have needed my help.
Odd that someone would presume to call a model wrong without understanding it or what it models.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 125 by Kleinman, posted 07-13-2020 6:20 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by Kleinman, posted 07-13-2020 3:30 PM PaulK has replied

Kleinman
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 129 of 263 (879246)
07-13-2020 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 128 by PaulK
07-13-2020 2:50 PM


Re: Self Serving Beliefs
Kleinman writes:
But I do thank you for helping me write my conclusion to my next paper.
PaulK writes:
If you were had read and understood
Models of DNA Evolution
And
Jukes Cantor Model of DNA Substitution
you wouldn’t have needed my help.
Odd that someone would presume to call a model wrong without understanding it or what it models.
Sometimes I need a little help and you did just fine on providing it. And you don't know where the Jukes-Cantor and derivative models are wrong. I've given you all kinds of hints to where the problem is and why it doesn't predict the behavior of the Kishony experiment correctly. And if you actually understood the Jukes-Cantor model, you would find that when using a mutation rate of e-9, it takes 3e9 replications for the model to reach equilibrium. And you can do that calculation without assuming a Poisson's distribution. All you have to do is understand how to calculate Markov chain mathematics directly. But you don't know how to do that math. But I really want you to publish your paper where you show you are a direct descendant of bananas. Just banana-pick the correct gene.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 128 by PaulK, posted 07-13-2020 2:50 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by PaulK, posted 07-13-2020 3:47 PM Kleinman has replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 130 of 263 (879249)
07-13-2020 3:47 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by Kleinman
07-13-2020 3:30 PM


Re: Self Serving Beliefs
quote:
And you don't know where the Jukes-Cantor and derivative models are wrong. I've given you all kinds of hints to where the problem is and why it doesn't predict the behavior of the Kishony experiment correctly.
And still you persist in your misunderstanding. Too bad for you.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Kleinman, posted 07-13-2020 3:30 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 131 by Kleinman, posted 07-13-2020 4:22 PM PaulK has replied

Kleinman
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 131 of 263 (879251)
07-13-2020 4:22 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by PaulK
07-13-2020 3:47 PM


Re: Self Serving Beliefs
Kleinman writes:
And you don't know where the Jukes-Cantor and derivative models are wrong. I've given you all kinds of hints to where the problem is and why it doesn't predict the behavior of the Kishony experiment correctly.
PaulK writes:
And still you persist in your misunderstanding. Too bad for you.
You've been so helpful in my misunderstand until now. Could you please give us a bit more help and show us how you banana-pick a gene from a banana, banana-pick one of your own genes, put that data into the Jukes-Cantor model and show us how you are a direct descendant to a banana?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by PaulK, posted 07-13-2020 3:47 PM PaulK has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by jar, posted 07-13-2020 4:30 PM Kleinman has replied
 Message 133 by PaulK, posted 07-13-2020 4:47 PM Kleinman has replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 132 of 263 (879252)
07-13-2020 4:30 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by Kleinman
07-13-2020 4:22 PM


Klienman is at best just another Medicine Man selling snake-oil.
Kleinman writes:
Could you please give us a bit more help and show us how you banana-pick a gene from a banana, banana-pick one of your own genes, put that data into the Jukes-Cantor model and show us how you are a direct descendant to a banana?
Could you please give us an example of where anyone other than you has ever made a claim of humans being direct descendants of bananas?
Of course you can't because it is only jesters and snake-oil salesmen like you who ever suggest such claims.
You did provide comedy relief at first but now you are simply inane and boring.
Edited by jar, : fix sub-title
Edited by jar, : -z
Edited by jar, : fools ---> jesters Keep the Fhrer happy

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by Kleinman, posted 07-13-2020 4:22 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 134 by Kleinman, posted 07-13-2020 4:52 PM jar has replied

PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 133 of 263 (879253)
07-13-2020 4:47 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by Kleinman
07-13-2020 4:22 PM


Re: Self Serving Beliefs
quote:
You've been so helpful in my misunderstand until now.
I’m sorry that I’m not a better teacher then.
But until you understand that Jukes-Cantor models neutral evolution - because that is the dominant form of DNA evolution - you will remain hopelessly wrong on the subject.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by Kleinman, posted 07-13-2020 4:22 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by Kleinman, posted 07-13-2020 4:59 PM PaulK has replied

Kleinman
Member (Idle past 335 days)
Posts: 2142
From: United States
Joined: 10-06-2016


Message 134 of 263 (879254)
07-13-2020 4:52 PM
Reply to: Message 132 by jar
07-13-2020 4:30 PM


Re: Klienman is at best just another Medicine Man selling snake-oil.
Kleinman writes:
Could you please give us a bit more help and show us how you banana-pick a gene from a banana, banana-pick one of your own genes, put that data into the Jukes-Cantor model and show us how you are a direct descendant to a banana?
jar writes:
Could you please give us an example of where anyone other than you has ever made a claim of humans being direct descendants of bananas?
Of course you can't because it is only jesters and snake-oil salesmen like you who ever suggest such claims.
You did provide comedy relief at first but now you are simply inane and boring.
It appears that jar doesn't understand how the bananas-to-Paulk aficionados do DNA phylogenetics. The first thing you have to do is banana-pick the correct gene to compare. We hope you are sober enough to understand the following:
How do scientists build phylogenetic trees? | The Tech Interactive
Allison Zhang, Stanford University writes:
The first thing to do is align the two DNA sequences together that you’re going to compare. Make sure you’re comparing the same gene! (Or other sequence.) Otherwise you are comparing apples to oranges.
And we certainly don't want to compare apples to oranges. We want to compare bananas to PaulK, or if you like, to jar.
And tell us, do you drink your snake oil from a jar?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by jar, posted 07-13-2020 4:30 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by jar, posted 07-13-2020 4:55 PM Kleinman has not replied

jar
Member (Idle past 394 days)
Posts: 34026
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004


Message 135 of 263 (879255)
07-13-2020 4:55 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by Kleinman
07-13-2020 4:52 PM


Re: Klienman is at best just another Medicine Man selling snake-oil.
And so as expected you cannot provide a single example of anyone but you suggesting any banana to humandirect descent.
You are a classic example of the Christian Cult of Ignorance. (use peek mode)

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill StudiosMy Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by Kleinman, posted 07-13-2020 4:52 PM Kleinman has not replied

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