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Author Topic:   Biden Our Time: All things Joe Biden
dwise1
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Posts: 4309
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 166 of 240 (880802)
08-11-2020 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by Hyroglyphx
08-09-2020 5:39 PM


Re: Catholic school is vicious as Roman Rule
["proudly roman catholic"] is Roman Catholic.... he thinks Roman rule still reigns supreme... you know, the people that murdered Jesus. The people that persecuted the early church? Yeah, those people....

Please bear with this first paragraph or skim through it; my point follows after it. I've been an atheist for about 57 years, ever since I, a recently baptized Protestant (still don't know what denomination it was), started reading the Bible in order to learn what I was supposed to believe, though with the naïve assumption that I was supposed to interpret it literally (which was most likely not part of my church's doctrine). I found what I was reading to be so unbelievable that, since I could not believe it then I should just leave -- which is why I warn parents to not leave their children alone with a bible. Ironically, half a decade later I became a "fellow traveler"of the Jesus Freak Movement whose fundamentalist doctrine was based on interpreting the Bible literally. Needless to say, I really could not believe that! Then about a decade later I discovered that creationism was still around so I started studying it in order to see what they had to say. The rampant dishonesty, falsehoods, lies, deceptions, and everything else that went completely against what I had learned as a Christian pretty much inoculated me against ever beginning to consider Christianity as a valid choice.

My opposition to "creation science" is for slightly complicated reasons: 1) the rude affront to honesty and truthfulness, 2) the unprincipled attack against science education basically for the purpose of destroying it (to quote Slartibartfast, I've always been a big fan of science), 3) the inevitable consequences for honest believers in "creation science" who actually believe that stuff and then learn that it's all nothing but lies (I've read many of their testimonials over the decades, plus I understand that several of our forum members are ex-creationists, having learned better). In addition, I see creationists as trying to walk a narrow tightrope in which they must avoid actually understanding the science that they are misrepresenting, lest they lose their faith to the truth.

My problems with fundamentalism is that I just cannot buy that stuff and I see them misleading themselves in ways that could cost them their faith. In addition, they keep trying to impose their religion on others, which has led to them trying to use the government in that endeavor. My concern with that grew over time and is a large part of my point here.

In the 1980's, Bill Moyers did a PBS show on the Christian Constructionists whose goal was to reconstruct America from a Constitutional Republic to an Old Testament theocracy. The kicker on this was their postmillennialism (Jesus' Thousand Year Rule would come before his Second Coming, hence that 1,000 years would be to prepare the world for His Arrival) versus fundamentalists' premillennialism (Jesus' Thousand Year Rule would come after his Second Coming, hence that event would initiate the Thousand Year Rule ("das Tausandjährige Reich" as per Hitler?)). The fundamentalists (eg, the Radical Religious Right which came into ascendancy in the early years of Reagan and thus sparked the fears of those interested in religious liberty) adopted the political goals of the Christian Reconstructionists, but perverted them to fit their own agenda. For example, the postmillennialist Christian Reconstructionists saw that 1,000 years as a transitional period to educate everybody and bring them around to the point of accepting Old Testament theocracy. For that reason, they invested resources into homeschooling materials in order to raise the next generations of Christian Reconstructionists. OTOH, the premillennialist fundamentalists wanted to immediately seize political power in order to bring about the Second Coming. No gradual educational effort, but rather a raw naked grab for political power. Their support for Israel is along the same lines: set up the "prophesized" conditions for the End of the World (eg, establishing the state of Israel, moving the capital to Jerusalem) and then increase the political instability in the region all in order to bring about Armageddon and the Second Coming.

OK, here's the kicker (which I learned last year is a poker term). All this time I was worried about those crazy fundamentalist Christians, the furthest thing possible from Catholics. But now the problem turns out to be Catholics.

We caught the first whiffs from the Kavanaugh hearings, in which his conservative Catholic views which are antithetical to American values started to come to light.

Now we have the proclamations of William Barr, a reconstructionist Catholic who is doing his utmost to promote the absolute power of the Presidency far beyond what's allowed by the Constitution, all to serve his own Catholic religious agenda.

I had always been so worried about fundamentalist Christians, and now it's the f*cking CATHOLICS who want to destroy America.


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ringo
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Posts: 18753
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


(1)
Message 167 of 240 (880805)
08-11-2020 8:00 PM
Reply to: Message 156 by youwerecreatedbyjc
08-11-2020 1:07 PM


proudly roman catholic writes:

thou shalt not murder
is that clearer for you


It's clear that abortion isn't murder. Otherwise, we'd have a lot of young women in prison for having abortions.

Edited by ringo, : splling.


"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

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dwise1
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Posts: 4309
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.5


(2)
Message 168 of 240 (880810)
08-11-2020 8:14 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by youwerecreatedbyjc
08-10-2020 11:27 PM


Re: Doing the Job
Biden is patriotic ? I guess to Libs selling out the country is patriotic.

Oh, really?

Trump owes his position to Vladimir Putin. It was Russian interference in the 2016 election that got him into office. And it is Russian interference in the 2020 election that Trump is counting on so desperately.

So just who is selling out his country?

Almost immediately in office, Trump personally handed over classified information to the Russians in the Oval Office. For that very reason, absolutely NOBODY, including foreign intelligence, wants Trump to have any access to classified information at all.

At every single point, Trump has supported Putin against American interests. At every single point.

Biden calls for American elections, et al. Trump calls for supporting Russia in every way possible. Just who is selling out the country here? Duh?

Or are Catholics so completely and utterly anti-American that it is impossible to even begin to try to talk with them?


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Replies to this message:
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Sarah Bellum
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Posts: 652
Joined: 05-04-2019
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 169 of 240 (880839)
08-12-2020 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 168 by dwise1
08-11-2020 8:14 PM


Re: Doing the Job
Careful! The "American" party of the early 19th century (nicknamed the Know-Nothing) were virulently anti-Catholic, accusing Catholics of disloyalty.

The Klan was another famous hater. Remember the story of Hugo Black? He was a Klansman who defended a man who murdered a Catholic priest because his daughter converted and the priest officiated at her marriage. Since the judge and jury were also Klansmen, the guy got off!


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Hyroglyphx
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Posts: 6089
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 170 of 240 (880856)
08-12-2020 6:04 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by Sarah Bellum
08-12-2020 11:44 AM


Re: Doing the Job
Careful! The "American" party of the early 19th century (nicknamed the Know-Nothing) were virulently anti-Catholic, accusing Catholics of disloyalty.

Very true. Bill the Butcher, portrayed here by Daniel Day-Lewis, summarizes the position the Know Nothing's had in regards to Catholic immigrants. Just replace "Irish" with "Mexican" and you pretty much have history repeating itself in the modern era.

The divide between Catholic and Protestant in the modern-age, at least in America, is not a huge deal but the further back you go in history towards Martin Luther the greater the mutual disdain was.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 171 by Sarah Bellum, posted 08-13-2020 8:54 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

  
Sarah Bellum
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Posts: 652
Joined: 05-04-2019
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 171 of 240 (880872)
08-13-2020 8:54 AM
Reply to: Message 170 by Hyroglyphx
08-12-2020 6:04 PM


Re: Doing the Job
And the issue of immigration is still with us!

7% of the residents of the United States are non-citizens! Consider the friction that can cause, the problems with loyalty, the problems with people being taxed without having the power to vote for their representatives!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 170 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-12-2020 6:04 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6089
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 172 of 240 (880901)
08-13-2020 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by Sarah Bellum
08-13-2020 8:54 AM


Re: Doing the Job
And the issue of immigration is still with us! 7% of the residents of the United States are non-citizens! Consider the friction that can cause, the problems with loyalty, the problems with people being taxed without having the power to vote for their representatives!

When you say non-citizen there is a lot to unpack there. It is likely reflective of persons with green cards and various school or work visas. They are vital to the United States. Those people can be tracked. As for unaccounted, illegal immigrants that is the issue. We can only estimate the amount of people that are here completely illegally. As for them it certainly causes a lot of problems that I think well-meaning people are not understanding.

They are not contributing to federal taxes which funds the lion's share of all taxes in the US. That's a problem. They are also taken advantage of on account of their immigration problem. Indentured servitude, outright slavery, human sex trafficking, etc are all problems faced by immigrants who did not cross legally. And, yes, as a result they have no representation because of it.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6089
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 1.6


Message 173 of 240 (880902)
08-13-2020 3:23 PM


Kamala Harris
Unsurprisingly, the Democrats apparently love losing and whenever possible they scuttle their own chances to oust Trump.

If you're going to play Identity Politics at least try to find someone worth the trouble. Are we supposed to forget that Harris excoriated Biden as a racist as her main talking about against him? I guess its okay to work for a known racist as long as it advances your political career, aye, Kamala? Are we also supposed to forget the spanking Tulsi Gabbard gave to Kamala in regards to her being responsible for thousands of incarcerated "brown and black" people? You couldn't dream up a worst ticket if you tried. What a joke... You have nobody to blame but yourselves.

As I've heard many say these days, "I didn't leave the Democrat Party, the Democrat Party left me."

Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

  
ramoss
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Posts: 3174
Joined: 08-11-2004
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 174 of 240 (880908)
08-14-2020 12:46 AM
Reply to: Message 125 by Sarah Bellum
08-04-2020 9:40 AM


AH, the 'both sides do it' defense.

In this case, there is no comparison. It's like 'everyone gets sick sometimes' when comparing a hang nail to an amputation.

No, the lying is not the same on both sides. The imbalance is astounding.


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Replies to this message:
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ramoss
Member
Posts: 3174
Joined: 08-11-2004
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 175 of 240 (880909)
08-14-2020 12:52 AM
Reply to: Message 137 by Sarah Bellum
08-06-2020 1:30 PM


Re: The Lesser of Evil is still evil
I don't know how devoted they are. But one thing I know.. both Hillary and Bill have only had one marriage, and they are still married to each other.

Can you say something similar about Trump?

I can say that although Joe Biden had two marriages, it was because his first wife died in a tragic accident. He didn't divorce her.

You can't say the same about Trump. Trump cheated on his wifes (well William Clinton did too, but never got divorced). Trump paid a porn star to cheat on his wife while she just had another kid. Boy , isn't that moral

Edited by ramoss, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
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ramoss
Member
Posts: 3174
Joined: 08-11-2004
Member Rating: 3.9


(1)
Message 176 of 240 (880910)
08-14-2020 12:54 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by youwerecreatedbyjc
08-11-2020 12:59 PM


That of course, has nothing to do with abortion. It has to do with the claim of Jeremiah that his call to being a Prophet was from before he was born.

So, trying to use that as a passage to justify not having abortion is one big fail


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ramoss
Member
Posts: 3174
Joined: 08-11-2004
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 177 of 240 (880911)
08-14-2020 12:59 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by youwerecreatedbyjc
08-11-2020 1:07 PM


Well, murder it the illegal killing of another human being. When does someone become a human being? When the breath of life enters the body.. ... in other words, when they start breathing. The soul is the word nephesh, which is often translated as 'soul', but literally means 'breath'.

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PaulK
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Posts: 16548
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.8


Message 178 of 240 (880914)
08-14-2020 2:16 AM


The new “Birtherism”
Various people are claiming that Kamala Harris is ineligible for VP, asserting that she’s not a natural born citizen. She is. This has been settled law for over a century.

But Trump of course gets in on the act and mangles the argument.

The president said: "I just heard it today that she doesn't meet the requirements and by the way the lawyer that wrote that piece is a very highly qualified, very talented lawyer.

And he also said:

"But that's a very serious, you're saying that, they're saying that she doesn't qualify because she wasn't born in this country."

Which isn’t even the argument (that was the false claim against Obama).

More here BBC


  
Sarah Bellum
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Posts: 652
Joined: 05-04-2019
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 179 of 240 (880918)
08-14-2020 9:46 AM
Reply to: Message 175 by ramoss
08-14-2020 12:52 AM


Re: The Lesser of Evil is still evil
Like I said, it's politics. Senator Biden had to advocate school segregation because otherwise he wouldn't get the votes to be Senator. Senator Harris had to defend illegal immigration (even to the extent of supporting an illegal immigrant’s application for a law license!) while hiding exculpatory evidence in drug cases and advocating civil forfeiture (even before initiating criminal proceedings!) in order to advance her career as a California prosecutor. Not to mention how being the girlfriend of the powerful (and married) Assembly Speaker Willie Brown helped politically.

It's politics. As a voter you just search desperately for politicians who sort of share your worldview and are maybe 51% public servant/49% sleazeball.

(And who have a hope of getting elected)


This message is a reply to:
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Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 652
Joined: 05-04-2019
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 180 of 240 (880919)
08-14-2020 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 174 by ramoss
08-14-2020 12:46 AM


I hold no brief for President Trump, so I'll just remind you that your argument is part of the traditional back-and-forth:

"You did X!"

"Yeah, but you did X too!"

"No, you did X morely!"

"Did not!"

"Did too!"


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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