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Author Topic:   Biden Our Time: All things Joe Biden
Phat
Member
Posts: 14719
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 196 of 271 (881832)
09-01-2020 3:18 PM
Reply to: Message 101 by jar
07-30-2020 1:07 PM


Is This True?
I recently was shown by my sister why it is so important that Trump not get back in.
Social Security Cuts Could Happen in 3 Years If Trump's Payroll Tax Break Is Made Permanent.
quote:
Currently, workers pay a 6.2% Social Security tax on up to $137,700 of earnings. Under the president's order, workers earning up to $104,000 per year won't have to pay that 6.2% for the next four months, leaving them with larger paychecks.

Now to be clear, the president only has the authority to defer those payroll taxes right now. But he's also pledged that if he's reelected in November, he'll seek to permanently forgive them. And while that may be good news for workers, at least in theory, it's terrible news as far Social Security is concerned.


If this is part of the Republican Agenda, I wont support it. I need social security or else I will be the homeless guy asking for spare change!


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by jar, posted 07-30-2020 1:07 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 197 by jar, posted 09-01-2020 3:32 PM Phat has responded
 Message 200 by Taq, posted 09-01-2020 4:24 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 201 by dwise1, posted 09-01-2020 5:36 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33010
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 197 of 271 (881835)
09-01-2020 3:32 PM
Reply to: Message 196 by Phat
09-01-2020 3:18 PM


Re: Is This True?
Absolutely true. And ending Social Security has been on the Republican Wish List since Ronald the traitor Reagan.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by Phat, posted 09-01-2020 3:18 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by Phat, posted 09-01-2020 3:35 PM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14719
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 198 of 271 (881836)
09-01-2020 3:35 PM
Reply to: Message 197 by jar
09-01-2020 3:32 PM


Re: Is This True?
How on earth would they take care of the boomers? Are they focused only on the millenial tax base that will guarantee payments on their interest from the debt into perpetuity?

Ive said it before. This whole system is due to collapse.

The dollar will be done in 5 years.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 197 by jar, posted 09-01-2020 3:32 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 199 by jar, posted 09-01-2020 4:11 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33010
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


(2)
Message 199 of 271 (881838)
09-01-2020 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 198 by Phat
09-01-2020 3:35 PM


Re: Is This True?
Why would the rich care about taking care of anyone other than themselves?

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
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Taq
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Posts: 8445
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 7.4


(4)
Message 200 of 271 (881840)
09-01-2020 4:24 PM
Reply to: Message 196 by Phat
09-01-2020 3:18 PM


Re: Is This True?
Phat writes:

I need social security or else I will be the homeless guy asking for spare change!

An anti-socialist Republican afraid of socialism going away. Wow!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by Phat, posted 09-01-2020 3:18 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
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dwise1
Member
Posts: 4365
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 201 of 271 (881841)
09-01-2020 5:36 PM
Reply to: Message 196 by Phat
09-01-2020 3:18 PM


Re: Is This True?
I recently was shown by my sister why it is so important that Trump not get back in.
Social Security Cuts Could Happen in 3 Years If Trump's Payroll Tax Break Is Made Permanent.

. . .

If this is part of the Republican Agenda, I wont support it. I need social security or else I will be the homeless guy asking for spare change!

Social Security was created as an anti-poverty program. My understanding of the history is that support for the elderly and disabled was supplied by their extended families (eg, such as existed in farm families), but that social safety net was untangling through a combination of shifting demographics (the predominantly rural US population was moving to the cities, a trend which greatly accelerated in many parts of the world after WWII), farm failures and foreclosures, savings and investments lost in the Crash and the bank failures and the Depression, etc. So Social Security was created to alleviate that problem. Medicare was created in 1965. Both programs are supported solely through payroll taxes completely independent on any other taxes plus the expenses of these programs are not part of the general budget and do not have any effect on the deficit.

And yet the Republicans keep trying to kill these programs (including making such massive cuts in benefits and payroll taxes as to effectively kill them). When Speaker of the House, Paul Ryan frequently railed against and tried to cut these "entitlement programs" (primarily Social Security and Medicare). Right after the Great Republican Tax Scam of 2017, both Ryan and McConnell started freaking out in public over this enormous deficit that we were "suddenly" faced with and both called out for massive cuts to Social Security and Medicare in order to reduce that deficit -- remember that both programs are self-funded and have almost absolutely nothing to do with the deficit*.
 




FOOTNOTE *:

Both Social Security and Medicare are paid for out of payroll taxes. What's left over in both separate programs (even though both are administered by the Social Security Administration) goes into two separate trust funds. The trustees of those funds are required to invest those funds in sound, safe investments, such as US government bonds.

So in effect, the federal government has been borrowing from those two trust funds by selling them bonds. As a result, the federal government owes money to those trust funds which shows up as debt. Government debt shows up in the general budget and hence as part of the deficit. As far as I know, that is the only connection between Social Security & Medicare and the deficit.



Now for the typically Republican self-serving money-grubbing. At a monthly skeptics breakfast (which we've been doing through ZOOM for six months now), one guest was a corporate financial officer (CFO) so I asked him about payroll taxes, specifically how much of is matched by the company. He told me that the company matches each employee's FICA contribution 100% (these payroll taxes are listed on your pay stub either separately as Social Security and Medicare or combined as Federal Insurance Contributions Act tax (FICA) ). That means that when the employee pays 6.2% to FICA (as per your quoted source, though another source below says 7.65%) then the company also pays that same percentage of your pay.

And it does that for each and every employee, which adds up quickly. If you're a large company with hundreds of employees, that can be a lot to pay. If you're a major employer with thousands of employees, then that's easily millions of dollars that you, the cold-blooded capitalist only interested in showing more profit, would love to be able to instead move into the profit column.

So why are the Republicans trying to kill Social Security and Medicare? For purely ideological reasons? If the GOP in the Time of Trump has taught us nothing else, it's that they have no ideology but rather its all about seizing and holding power and money. The big money donors who have bought those politicians want to see FICA go away, so that's what they push for and that's what their politicians push for. That fact that many millions will end up in poverty means nothing to them just so long as they can show a larger profit in the next quarter.

Trump won't do anything unless he will profit from it personally or politically. In the MICE list of ways to recruit and manage espionage assets (Money, Ideology, Coercion, Ego), they will have hooked Trump on money and ego (he has zero ideology and he has no shame so the only coercion they can exert on him would be financial or exposing his criminal and potentially traitorous acts). Since he refused to place his holdings in a blind trust, Trump knows full well which contracts, tax cuts, etc would benefit himself financially and so those are what he pushes or signs in by fiat.

By deferring payroll taxes, Trump stands to personally benefit from millons of dollars in tax cuts. And if he can get reelected, then he can avoid ever paying those deferred taxes back. That's the bottom line: money.

 
This YouTube video explains that: Trump Signs Executive Order To Give Himself Massive Tax Cut, 10 Aug 2020:

Whenever the GOP or Trump are involved, always follow the money.

 




FOOTNOTE **:

One of my university classes was Russian History, which is where I learned about this.

Medieval serfdom was the way of life in Russia for long after it ended in Western Europe. But then in 1861 the Tsar freed the serfs, a move that was comparable to the US' freeing of the slaves.

Part of freeing the serfs was to give them the land that they had been working for their masters. Well, actually their masters sold them that land with special government mortgages that did not require any payments until a final balloon payment came due 60 years later. The idea was that the former serfs would save their profits from farming in order to make that final payment. But what really happened was that their former masters were given all the water rights, and so they would sell water to their former serfs at rates that wiped out any profits from farming.

And now in 1917 that balloon payment that nobody would be able to pay was coming due in another few years, so it was looming very large. Our professor, who had just returned from a 1.5 year sabbatical in the Soviet Union in order to research the Revolution, maintained that this was a contributing factor to support for the Revolution among farmers.

Also note that the Revolution didn't start out Bolshevik (Russian for "majority" because in one minor issue they got a majority vote in the Duma, so they started calling themselves the Majority Party, kind of like our own "Moral Majority"). After the Tsar abdicated, the Duma consisted of a broad spectrum of political groups, each of which had to try to broker a peace with Germany who was making exorbitant demands that no sane government could agree to (the Brest-Litovsk Treaty). When the Bolsheviks' turn came, they agreed to Germany's terms with no intention of honoring the treaty, but rather used the respite it provided to consolidate their power in Russia. Germany's eventual defeat made that treaty moot, though our professor suggested that it was part of the motivation for the exorbitant demands made on Germany in the Treaty of Versailles. Subsequent history research suggests to me that instead it was France's chance for revenge against Germany for the exorbitant reparations that they were forced to pay for the Franco-Prussian War of 1871 in which the Prussians occupied Versailles, from which they both observed Paris tearing itself apart and they announced the formation of the German Empire. While these events created a bitter culture of revenge in the French, the Prussian demands for war reparations were the same ones that Napoleon had imposed upon them, so that was Prussian revenge.



 


This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by Phat, posted 09-01-2020 3:18 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 4365
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


(1)
Message 202 of 271 (881842)
09-01-2020 5:51 PM
Reply to: Message 200 by Taq
09-01-2020 4:24 PM


Re: Is This True?
An anti-socialist Republican afraid of socialism going away. Wow!

Another such anti-socialist Republican afraid of socialism going away is Walmart (hey, corporations are people too, right?). I gleaned this from a radio interview with Ralph Nader a few years ago.

Walmart, one of the most hard-core capitalists around, depends entirely on socialism in the form of direct local government support and social programs.

When they move into a town, they get concessions from the local county and city governments to get cuts in business taxes and other incentives to open there. Then they depend on state and local welfare programs. Part of new employee training is how to fill out applications for food stamps and other welfare programs. Nobody is allowed to work enough hours a week in order for the company to keep from providing medical or other worker benefits, so not only do workers get no benefits, but they also make much less because they have to work fewer hours at minimum wage -- I don't know whether that also helps Walmart avoid payroll taxes.

If social programs (what they call "socialism") were to go away, Walmart could not operate in the US as it does. And yet the Walmart stores in Canada, where they cannot get away with that crap and where workers must be paid decent wages, are making a profit just fine.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by Taq, posted 09-01-2020 4:24 PM Taq has not yet responded

  
Trump won 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 203 of 271 (881846)
09-02-2020 6:00 AM
Reply to: Message 195 by ringo
09-01-2020 12:34 PM


Yes, catholic dogma to oppose death penalty

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Trump won 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 204 of 271 (881848)
09-02-2020 6:09 AM


Fat if you're flirting with the idea of voting for Biden, please remember that is mortal sin voting for joe Biden and because you have not received the sacrament of reconciliation you will very likely go to hell for voting for joe Biden I'm just letting you know as a friend

Maybe presumptuous to say such a thing actually because because you're not catholic you're not gonna be held to the same standard as us but It is grave sin to vote for joe Biden so will harm your soul 1 way or another

Edited by proudly roman catholic, : No reason given.


Replies to this message:
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 Message 207 by dwise1, posted 09-02-2020 12:48 PM Trump won has not yet responded
 Message 208 by Taq, posted 09-02-2020 1:00 PM Trump won has not yet responded
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ramoss
Member
Posts: 3190
Joined: 08-11-2004
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 205 of 271 (881857)
09-02-2020 11:26 AM
Reply to: Message 204 by Trump won
09-02-2020 6:09 AM


No, he won't. There is no hell. That is a pagan myth that Christians adopted.

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jar
Member
Posts: 33010
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


(1)
Message 206 of 271 (881858)
09-02-2020 11:34 AM
Reply to: Message 205 by ramoss
09-02-2020 11:26 AM


But it certainly has been a money maker, particularly for Roman Catholics and Evangelicals.

There's gold in them thar pockets!


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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dwise1
Member
Posts: 4365
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 207 of 271 (881860)
09-02-2020 12:48 PM
Reply to: Message 204 by Trump won
09-02-2020 6:09 AM


please remember that is mortal sin voting for joe Biden and because you have not received the sacrament of reconciliation you will very likely go to hell for voting for joe Biden

And yet voting for The Beast (AKA Trump) and through him for the Anti-Christ (arguably Putin) will help get you into heaven? Really? I thought you told us that Catholics are also taught about those things (ie, Revelation and End Times), so how could you be so gravely mistaken?

Screw Russia and Putin's puppets! Vote for America!

Edited by dwise1, : And Putin's little dog too!


This message is a reply to:
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Taq
Member
Posts: 8445
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 7.4


(1)
Message 208 of 271 (881862)
09-02-2020 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 204 by Trump won
09-02-2020 6:09 AM


prc writes:

Fat if you're flirting with the idea of voting for Biden, please remember that is mortal sin voting for joe Biden and because you have not received the sacrament of reconciliation you will very likely go to hell for voting for joe Biden I'm just letting you know as a friend

Poe's law is in full force.


This message is a reply to:
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Phat
Member
Posts: 14719
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 209 of 271 (881864)
09-02-2020 1:11 PM
Reply to: Message 204 by Trump won
09-02-2020 6:09 AM


Next Stop: HELL
Does that mean that all non-Catholics who vote for Biden will go to Hell? Just sayin....

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 204 by Trump won, posted 09-02-2020 6:09 AM Trump won has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 210 by Tangle, posted 09-02-2020 1:43 PM Phat has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7987
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 210 of 271 (881865)
09-02-2020 1:43 PM
Reply to: Message 209 by Phat
09-02-2020 1:11 PM


Re: Next Stop: HELL
Phat writes:

Does that mean that all non-Catholics who vote for Biden will go to Hell? Just sayin....

Catholics believe that all non-catholics are going to hell. Sorry Phat, you're fucked regardless.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
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