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Author Topic:   Biden Our Time: All things Joe Biden
Sarah Bellum
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Posts: 613
Joined: 05-04-2019
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 46 of 141 (879891)
07-24-2020 1:16 PM
Reply to: Message 44 by ringo
07-24-2020 12:18 PM


And you just have yourself a super day today, m'kay?

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Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 613
Joined: 05-04-2019
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 47 of 141 (879896)
07-24-2020 3:33 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Hyroglyphx
07-24-2020 1:12 PM


Re: The enemy of my enemy IS my friend?
This could be the election when we finally realize that the "Old White Guy" paradigm that used to give us such leaders as Eisenhower, Cleveland and Reagan is not working out quite as well as it used to.

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6056
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 48 of 141 (879898)
07-24-2020 6:02 PM
Reply to: Message 47 by Sarah Bellum
07-24-2020 3:33 PM


Re: The enemy of my enemy IS my friend?
This could be the election when we finally realize that the "Old White Guy" paradigm that used to give us such leaders as Eisenhower, Cleveland and Reagan is not working out quite as well as it used to.

I wanted to shatter that paradigm by voting for Tulsi Gabbard before she was politically assassinated. Tough break for me and the world... I guess we're gonna have at least four more years of at least one creepy and perverted old white man in the White House.... but which one?


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
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Minnemooseus
Member
Posts: 3825
From: Duluth, Minnesota, U.S. (West end of Lake Superior)
Joined: 11-11-2001


Message 49 of 141 (879903)
07-24-2020 11:00 PM
Reply to: Message 45 by Hyroglyphx
07-24-2020 1:12 PM


Re: The enemy of my enemy IS my friend?
Back about 4 years ago I made the mistake of referring to Hillary as "the lesser of two evils", to which Anglagard replied with the equally cliched "the lesser of two evils is still evil".

My instinct is that Biden is being underrated as a positive candidate, and certainly is amendable to influence by the more progressive Democrats.

My current perspective is that if the quality of candidates are rated on a (+)10 to (-)10 scale, we are being presented the options of the "0" (at worst) Joe Biden or the "-10" Donald Trump. You gotta go with the best you can get when you can't get "the best" that you want. So certainly, the enemy of my enemy is certainly my friend. Biden is a vastly less "enemy" than is Trump.

Moose


Professor, geology, Whatsamatta U
Evolution - Changes in the environment, caused by the interactions of the components of the environment.

"Do not meddle in the affairs of cats, for they are subtle and will piss on your computer." - Bruce Graham

"The modern conservative is engaged in one of man's oldest exercises in moral philosophy; that is, the search for a superior moral justification for selfishness." - John Kenneth Galbraith

"Yesterday on Fox News, commentator Glenn Beck said that he believes President Obama is a racist. To be fair, every time you watch Glenn Beck, it does get a little easier to hate white people." - Conan O'Brien

"Politics is not the art of the possible. It consists in choosing between the disastrous and the unpalatable." - John Kenneth Galbraith

It says something about the qualities of our current president that the best argument anyone has made in his defense is that he didn't know what he was talking about. - Paul Krugman (as stolen from Chiroptera's signature)

"My fellow Americans, I'm pleased to tell you today that I've signed legislation that will outlaw Russia forever. We begin bombing in five minutes" - Ronald Reagan (1984)

"I know a little about a lot of things, and a lot about a few things, but I'm highly ignorant about everything." - Moose


This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Hyroglyphx, posted 07-24-2020 1:12 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
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xongsmith
Member
Posts: 1969
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 7.0


Message 50 of 141 (879907)
07-25-2020 12:54 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by Minnemooseus
07-24-2020 11:00 PM


Re: lesser of two evils
and half is better than none at all....

i also like the bus analogy. there may not be a bus that will take you right to your door, but there is a bus that gets you closest of all the buses still running and it is better than a bus that continues to drive the backwards way and goes over the cliff.


"I'd rather be an American than a Trump Supporter."

- xongsmith, 5.7d


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nwr
Member
Posts: 5618
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.3


Message 51 of 141 (879908)
07-25-2020 1:19 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by Minnemooseus
07-24-2020 11:00 PM


Re: The enemy of my enemy IS my friend?
My instinct is that Biden is being underrated as a positive candidate, and certainly is amendable to influence by the more progressive Democrats.

I agree with that. However, unlike Obama, he does not make great speeches. He does a poor job of marketing himself.

Once he is president, I expect to see him quietly get the job done, and win more support because of that.


Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

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Phat
Member
Posts: 14289
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 52 of 141 (879910)
07-25-2020 2:39 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by Minnemooseus
07-24-2020 11:00 PM


Re: The enemy of my enemy IS my friend?
Im not so sure. Its all about money in my mind, and the Democratic platform will destroy my wallet quicker than the populists. Convince me otherwise.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


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Phat
Member
Posts: 14289
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 53 of 141 (879911)
07-25-2020 2:43 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by ringo
07-24-2020 12:18 PM


Its The Money, Stupid
Obama was far from perfect, but in my mind he was a better statesman and communicator. He came across as a likeable guy. We need to reform our global image. We are too old and bankrupt to play global cop much longer. And as I said in my previous post, its all about money. For Biden to get my vote, he best leave my taxes alone and quit leaning so hard on the working class. We are the ones who need a break.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by ringo, posted 07-24-2020 12:18 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 54 by jar, posted 07-25-2020 7:39 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 57 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-25-2020 11:41 AM Phat has not yet responded
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jar
Member
Posts: 32725
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.7


(1)
Message 54 of 141 (879913)
07-25-2020 7:39 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by Phat
07-25-2020 2:43 AM


Re: Its The Money, Stupid
Phat writes:

For Biden to get my vote, he best leave my taxes alone and quit leaning so hard on the working class. We are the ones who need a break.

That is such an utterly STUPID comment that I can only point out that you will get the world you want.

And it will suck for you!


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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xongsmith
Member
Posts: 1969
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 7.0


Message 55 of 141 (879914)
07-25-2020 10:43 AM
Reply to: Message 52 by Phat
07-25-2020 2:39 AM


Re: The enemy of my enemy IS my friend?
phat writes:
the Democratic platform will destroy my wallet quicker than the populists.

Just what do you think the platform is?


"I'd rather be an American than a Trump Supporter."

- xongsmith, 5.7d


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Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 613
Joined: 05-04-2019
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 56 of 141 (879917)
07-25-2020 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 48 by Hyroglyphx
07-24-2020 6:02 PM


Re: The enemy of my enemy IS my friend?
The advantage is usually with the incumbent. In fact, voters very rarely vote in a President of one party, then switch to a President of another party, then switch back to the original party after only four years.

For example, George H. W. Bush doesn't really count, because he was the last 4 years of a 12 year stretch where one party held the White House.

Carter doesn't count either, because he was in the weird circumstance of running against a President who hadn't been voted in as either President or Vice President.

Just look at the intervals of party control of the White House. Every interval (except President Carter) has been at least eight years going back as far as President Grover Cleveland! (and even he eventually got 8 years in total)

Obama: 8 years
Bush: 8 years
Clinton: 8 years
Bush/Reagan: 12 years
Carter: 4 years
Ford/Nixon: 8 years
Johnson/Kennedy: 8 years
Eisenhower: 8 years
Truman/Roosevelt: 20 years
Hoover/Coolidge/Harding: 12 years
Wilson: 8 years
Taft/Roosevelt/McKinley: 16 years


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Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 613
Joined: 05-04-2019
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 57 of 141 (879918)
07-25-2020 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by Phat
07-25-2020 2:43 AM


Re: Its The Money, Stupid
Yup, as President Obama himself said, "You're likeable enough."

This message is a reply to:
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ringo
Member
Posts: 18511
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.6


(3)
Message 58 of 141 (879920)
07-25-2020 12:17 PM
Reply to: Message 53 by Phat
07-25-2020 2:43 AM


Re: Its The Money, Stupid
Phat writes:

For Biden to get my vote...


For Biden to get your vote, all that should be necessary is for Trump's name to be on the ballot.

Phat writes:

... he best leave my taxes alone...


You Americans need to change your insane attitude toward taxes. Any politician, including an open sewer like Trump, can get your vote by promising to lower taxes.

Do you know what lower taxes get you? Higher taxes in the future.


"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
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Hyroglyphx
Member
Posts: 6056
From: Austin, TX
Joined: 05-03-2006
Member Rating: 2.1


Message 59 of 141 (879930)
07-25-2020 6:47 PM
Reply to: Message 49 by Minnemooseus
07-24-2020 11:00 PM


Re: The enemy of my enemy IS my friend?
My current perspective is that if the quality of candidates are rated on a (+)10 to (-)10 scale, we are being presented the options of the "0" (at worst) Joe Biden or the "-10" Donald Trump. You gotta go with the best you can get when you can't get "the best" that you want. So certainly, the enemy of my enemy is certainly my friend. Biden is a vastly less "enemy" than is Trump.

I mean, look, I hear ya on the strategy and why its the strategy. But if that is truly everyone's metric, and it basically is, then this will always play out indefinitely. Right now there are some people who voted for Trump in 2016 thinking that he really was a "Washington outsider who's gonna drain the swamp." Fast-forward four years and they think his performance has been lackluster. This person is now a swing voter.... they're going to re-elect Trump because the devil you know is better than the devil you don't (fear of the unknown).

This swing voter was all about electing a Democrat into office, until one by one, the candidates (s)he were interested in were summarily executed by the DNC. Tulsi Gabbard, Andrew Yang, Pete Buttigieg, one by one taken down by the behemoth. Now we have a crazy 'ole coot who was already prone to gaffes and inappropriate touching... added to the fact that his level of cognition is steadily in decline. And there goes this swing voter's confidence. (S)he is now going to pull the trigger twice on the Orange Idiot.

There is a caveat though, I suppose. And that is who Biden's team selects as his running mate. Because much like it was Cheney running the White House and not George Bush, that could conceivably happen. That might be the only thing to change this swing voter's mind.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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Replies to this message:
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kjsimons
Member
Posts: 699
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003
Member Rating: 3.7


(1)
Message 60 of 141 (879931)
07-25-2020 9:35 PM
Reply to: Message 40 by Sarah Bellum
07-24-2020 11:41 AM


Well then you are just an idiot. Trump is far the worst president ever. Please defend your position if you can.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 40 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-24-2020 11:41 AM Sarah Bellum has responded

Replies to this message:
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