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Author Topic:   3 Theories Of Everything by Ellis Potter
ringo
Member
Posts: 19252
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 2 of 96 (879170)
07-12-2020 2:58 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
07-12-2020 2:10 PM


Phat writes:

Here is an example of his thinking:
God alone is God
but
God is not alone


That would look good on your bumper.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Phat, posted 07-12-2020 2:10 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Phat, posted 07-12-2020 3:39 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19252
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 6 of 96 (879177)
07-12-2020 3:50 PM
Reply to: Message 4 by Phat
07-12-2020 3:39 PM


Re: Bumper Stickers 101
Phat writes:

Except that Ellis would argue that within the concept of monism one could claim scientism but that this limits the concept to an absolute.


Philosophical mumbo-jumbo, too long for a bumper sticker.

If Potter has any arguments of value, bring them here in your own words.


"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by Phat, posted 07-12-2020 3:39 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19252
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 10 of 96 (879233)
07-13-2020 12:44 PM
Reply to: Message 8 by Phat
07-13-2020 12:56 AM


Phat writes:

the characters exist apart from and outside of the book.


Sure, Long John Silver has an existence outside the book. Y'know, that whole Arr! thing that people attribute to all pirates was originated by Robert Newton in the 1950 movie. You should see him in some of his other movies like Jamaica Inn.

But I don't pretend to be "in communion" with either Long John Silver or Robert Newton.


"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by Phat, posted 07-13-2020 12:56 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by Phat, posted 07-13-2020 3:49 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19252
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 24 of 96 (879296)
07-14-2020 11:39 AM
Reply to: Message 12 by Phat
07-13-2020 3:49 PM


Re: ringoisms and jingoisms
Phat writes:

Long John Silver may have evolved from thoughts and experiences far deeper than his character in the book actually hinted at.


Exactly. Thoughts and experiences. Maybe even based on a real person. But NOT living today.

Phat writes:

You seem to adhere to this world view...

... Am I close?


Are you? Put it in your own words so we can see what YOU think it means.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 12 by Phat, posted 07-13-2020 3:49 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Phat, posted 07-14-2020 1:01 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19252
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


(1)
Message 27 of 96 (879336)
07-14-2020 5:32 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Phat
07-14-2020 1:01 PM


Re: ringoisms and jingoisms
Phat writes:

I've heard your arguments enough that I think I can mimic them to a degree.


I'd rather have you explain Potter's arguments like I asked.

Phat writes:

... if we could fit you (ringo,Tangle, and perhaps AZPaul3) into a category. In that there is a singular reality and not a dualistic cosmic battle....


Well of course there isn't a cosmic battle any more than there's one magic ring that rules them all. I don't see that as a worldview. It's just common sense that anybody with any worldview should be able to see.

Phat writes:

You guys essentially skip belief all together---


It isn't about skipping belief. It's about realizing that belief is a last-ditch copout when you just can't bring yourself to admit that you don't know.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Phat, posted 07-14-2020 1:01 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19252
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 53 of 96 (879737)
07-21-2020 10:03 AM
Reply to: Message 49 by Phat
07-21-2020 9:20 AM


Re: Some of the best questions and answers from the book.
Phat writes:

Lets just say then for the sake of argument that the body of believers on the planet makes up their own characters and passes them around to each other as a collective mythos.


Let's not forget that "the body of believers on the planet" don't all believe the same things you believe. There are Hindus, Mormons, etc. who all believe as fervently as you do and all have "experiences" as convincing as yours - and YOU think THEIR beliefs are made-up nonsense.

You actually reason the same way as atheists do. The only difference is that you hang on to one set of made-up nonsense.


"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 49 by Phat, posted 07-21-2020 9:20 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 57 by Phat, posted 08-29-2020 3:17 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19252
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 58 of 96 (881768)
08-29-2020 9:23 PM
Reply to: Message 57 by Phat
08-29-2020 3:17 PM


Re: Some of the best questions and answers from the book.
Phat writes:

I reject your notion that all beliefs are relative and equally valid.


You can reject gravity for all I care. Until you have something to back up your rejection, you're just blowing smoke.

Phat writes:

You may have rejected one God more than I have, but you are then stuck explaining the WHY and the HOW of where this universe came from and whether or not we humans collectively or specifically exclusively are going anywhere.


That isn't "stuck". I'm one step ahead of YOU because I at least have a POSSIBILITY of learning something. YOU are stuck with having to reject what we do learn if it denies your dogma.

Phat writes:

Why must you always place Jesus last?


I didn't. Why don't you read what I wrote?

Phat writes:

You seem to have His incarnate message higher up on your list, which is a good thing...


You have it backwards, as usual. It isn't "His messsge." It's an eternal message that He happened to understand.

Phat writes:

You humanists will never make it off of the planet without standing for something.


1. I have no desire to make it off the planet.

2. I do stand for something: humanity.


"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Phat, posted 08-29-2020 3:17 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19252
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


(2)
Message 64 of 96 (881899)
09-03-2020 12:47 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Phat
09-03-2020 11:48 AM


Re: A One & A Two & A Three
Phat writes:

Personally I am much more comfortable with the idea of a Creator of all seen and unseen than I am with Quantum mechanics and Physics trying to configure an objective truth concerning the origin of the universe.


So am I but my comfort level has nothing to do with what's true.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Phat, posted 09-03-2020 11:48 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19252
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 67 of 96 (882001)
09-08-2020 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Phat
09-07-2020 3:10 PM


Re: What Is Comfortable vs What is True.
Phat writes:

I see no desire to take any leaps of faith on your part.


You yourself haven't taken any "leap of faith". You've stuck with the fairy tales that you learned as a child. A leap of faith would be to discard them and start fresh. Try a whole new set of fairy tales. Become a Raelian.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Phat, posted 09-07-2020 3:10 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 68 by Phat, posted 09-08-2020 2:54 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19252
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 69 of 96 (882020)
09-08-2020 10:34 PM
Reply to: Message 68 by Phat
09-08-2020 2:54 PM


Re: What Is Comfortable vs What is True.
Phat writes:

I have experienced the supernatural.


So have I. Only I call it "unknown".

Phat writes:

Once you have such an observational and/or participatory encounter you can never again go back to square one.


And yet I did.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 68 by Phat, posted 09-08-2020 2:54 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by Phat, posted 09-09-2020 7:56 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19252
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 71 of 96 (882037)
09-09-2020 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by Phat
09-09-2020 7:56 AM


Re: What Is Comfortable vs What is True.
Phat writes:

Its a bit like a bird leaving the nest. Why leave home?


All birds leave home.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Phat, posted 09-09-2020 7:56 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 72 by Phat, posted 09-09-2020 1:49 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19252
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 74 of 96 (882060)
09-09-2020 8:42 PM
Reply to: Message 72 by Phat
09-09-2020 1:49 PM


Re: What Is Comfortable vs What is True.
Phat writes:

You are not understanding the metaphor. Where is "home" to God?


That's a ridiculous concept. In any case, it isn't God who's leaving home, so if He did have a home it would be irrelevant to the metaphor.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 72 by Phat, posted 09-09-2020 1:49 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 75 by Phat, posted 09-09-2020 9:52 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19252
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 76 of 96 (882088)
09-10-2020 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 75 by Phat
09-09-2020 9:52 PM


Re: What Is Comfortable vs What is True.
Phat writes:

The point is that Gods "home" is everywhere so we really never leave the nest unless we do so mentally.


Well, of course. Growing up is about cutting the apron-strings mentally.
Phat writes:

Which I would argue is UN-necessary.


You might also assert that leaving your mommy is unnecessary but that doesn't mean it's a desirable situation.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 75 by Phat, posted 09-09-2020 9:52 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 77 by Phat, posted 09-12-2020 1:41 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19252
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 86 of 96 (882139)
09-12-2020 9:26 PM
Reply to: Message 77 by Phat
09-12-2020 1:41 PM


Re: What Is Comfortable vs What is True.
Phat writes:

Humans were never meant to be independent from God.


So you claim but you've never been able to back it up.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 77 by Phat, posted 09-12-2020 1:41 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
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