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Author Topic:   The Great Depression No One Talks About
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7993
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


(5)
Message 61 of 138 (881812)
08-31-2020 4:16 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by Phat
08-31-2020 4:00 PM


Re: The Bill will get paid
Phat writes:

... and one crackpot scheme after another to take money from others ... totally free health care (Medicare for all)

Don't knock it 'til you've tried it. I doubt you'll find anyone in the UK with a bad word to say about our NHS.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by Phat, posted 08-31-2020 4:00 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 63 by NosyNed, posted 08-31-2020 8:53 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8445
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 7.4


(4)
Message 62 of 138 (881813)
08-31-2020 6:46 PM
Reply to: Message 60 by Phat
08-31-2020 4:00 PM


Re: The Bill will get paid
Phat writes:

Granted im not prone to believe anything based on source or authority alone, but I can intuitively see common sense when I read it. Here are three:
1) Newslatter from Stansbury Research:

I see a lot of false conservative tropes. For example, Medicare isn't free, the VA has good healthcare (my dad speaks highly of it), you can still have a successful career and accomplishment alongside socialism, megacorporations get direct subsidies from the government yet they are never criticized (see Exon), and paying for university is no longer possible for many so people are often stuck in an economic class without a viable way to get out.

The best way to give regular citizens a shot in life is socialism. It allows regular people to not go bankrupt when they get sick. It offers a safety net that allows them to find new work instead of being homeless. It can offer affordable education so that people can advance in society. What do we see from conservatives? More tax cuts from the rich and attacks on the very programs that can improve the lives of regular citizens.

Edited by Taq, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 60 by Phat, posted 08-31-2020 4:00 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 65 by Phat, posted 08-31-2020 9:03 PM Taq has responded

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 8949
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


(5)
Message 63 of 138 (881814)
08-31-2020 8:53 PM
Reply to: Message 61 by Tangle
08-31-2020 4:16 PM


It works
We have had medicare for all for decades. It costs the country a much smaller amount of GDP than yours does and gives better results. And Canada isn't the only country that has done it successfully. Perfect? no not perfect just a hell of a lot better than what you have.

I'm astonished that someone who professes to be a Christian would think that poverty should be fatal if you are unlucky. Very close to 100 % of Canadians are more Christian than you are.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 61 by Tangle, posted 08-31-2020 4:16 PM Tangle has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 64 by Phat, posted 08-31-2020 9:00 PM NosyNed has not yet responded
 Message 67 by DrJones*, posted 08-31-2020 10:25 PM NosyNed has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14741
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 64 of 138 (881815)
08-31-2020 9:00 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by NosyNed
08-31-2020 8:53 PM


Re: It works
i just worry because im old. when i was younger i would have worked my way out of any poverty that came my way. i just need more faith is all

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by NosyNed, posted 08-31-2020 8:53 PM NosyNed has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14741
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 65 of 138 (881816)
08-31-2020 9:03 PM
Reply to: Message 62 by Taq
08-31-2020 6:46 PM


Re: The Bill will get paid
you do have a point. i fear socialism because few of them trust Jesus...trusting humanity inatead. i know that tangle would say its obviously the only objective solution but something in my intuition tells me not to trust it. pray for me to get true wisdom.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 62 by Taq, posted 08-31-2020 6:46 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 66 by jar, posted 08-31-2020 9:12 PM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 68 by Taq, posted 09-01-2020 12:05 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 69 by ringo, posted 09-01-2020 12:30 PM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33019
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


(4)
Message 66 of 138 (881817)
08-31-2020 9:12 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Phat
08-31-2020 9:03 PM


Re: The Bill will get paid
Phat writes:

i fear socialism because few of them trust Jesus...trusting humanity inatead. i know that tangle would say its obviously the only objective solution but something in my intuition tells me not to trust it. pray for me to get true wisdom.

Pray for Social Security and Single Payer Socialized Medicine and support for Unions and a President who has not been a failure in business, entertainment, casinos, college, charity marriages and basic humanity. They will do far more for you than wisdom or Jesus.

Edited by jar, : that --------> for


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Phat, posted 08-31-2020 9:03 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2155
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004


Message 67 of 138 (881818)
08-31-2020 10:25 PM
Reply to: Message 63 by NosyNed
08-31-2020 8:53 PM


Re: It works
It costs the country a much smaller amount of GDP than yours does and gives better results.

indeed. I've had 4 cornea transplants and never had to declare bankruptcy or even pay out of pocket.


It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 63 by NosyNed, posted 08-31-2020 8:53 PM NosyNed has not yet responded

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8445
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 7.4


(1)
Message 68 of 138 (881827)
09-01-2020 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Phat
08-31-2020 9:03 PM


Re: The Bill will get paid
Phat writes:

you do have a point. i fear socialism because few of them trust Jesus...trusting humanity inatead.

It seems that you fear democracy because democracy puts trust in humanity.

If you buy private health insurance, are you putting your trust in humanity? Does God run Blue Shield and Blue Cross?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Phat, posted 08-31-2020 9:03 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18822
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


(4)
Message 69 of 138 (881830)
09-01-2020 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 65 by Phat
08-31-2020 9:03 PM


Re: The Bill will get paid
Phat writes:

i fear socialism because...


You fear socialism because you don't know the first damn thing about it.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 65 by Phat, posted 08-31-2020 9:03 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 70 by Phat, posted 09-01-2020 3:23 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14741
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 70 of 138 (881833)
09-01-2020 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 69 by ringo
09-01-2020 12:30 PM


Re: The Bill will get paid
You fear socialism because you don't know the first damn thing about it.
Bite your tongue. I learn quickly and am likely at least as intelligent as you.

What I have told you time and time again that I fear is for the middle class to be forced to join with the poor impoverished masses that you so want to liftup. Im all for lifting them up but not if I have to come down in order to do so.

Why should I get paid the same as the new guy that just started? Why am I forced to get taxed to support everybody and be unable to save for my own retirement?

However...the things Trump might do dont sound so good either. Im stuck in the middle...deciding which way to cast my vote. Which agenda will help Phat the most? Or should I just give it all to Jesus and trust Him?


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 69 by ringo, posted 09-01-2020 12:30 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 71 by Tangle, posted 09-01-2020 3:37 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 72 by Taq, posted 09-01-2020 4:21 PM Phat has not yet responded
 Message 73 by ringo, posted 09-01-2020 9:11 PM Phat has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7993
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


(2)
Message 71 of 138 (881837)
09-01-2020 3:37 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by Phat
09-01-2020 3:23 PM


Re: The Bill will get paid
Phat writes:

Why should I get paid the same as the new guy that just started? Why am I forced to get taxed to support everybody and be unable to save for my own retirement?

All of that is just wrong. You've fallen for the lie of the winner takes all, American dream and you have no idea what liberal socialism actually is, you think it's some form of communism - it's not.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Phat, posted 09-01-2020 3:23 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 8445
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 7.4


Message 72 of 138 (881839)
09-01-2020 4:21 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by Phat
09-01-2020 3:23 PM


Re: The Bill will get paid
Phat writes:

What I have told you time and time again that I fear is for the middle class to be forced to join with the poor impoverished masses that you so want to liftup.

So it's about the money?

In case you were wondering, First World economies with socialized medicine pay half of what the US does on medical care. HALF!!!

Or better yet, just ask a group of retirees (pensioners for you Brits) if they want Medicare to go away and have to pay for private insurance for all of their health care. See how that goes. By the way, Medicare is socialized health care.

Edited by Taq, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Phat, posted 09-01-2020 3:23 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18822
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 73 of 138 (881843)
09-01-2020 9:11 PM
Reply to: Message 70 by Phat
09-01-2020 3:23 PM


Re: The Bill will get paid
Phat writes:

I learn quickly....


You? The guy who comes up with the same empty assertions day after day. week after week, year after year?

Phat writes:

What I have told you time and time again that I fear is for the middle class to be forced to join with the poor impoverished masses that you so want to liftup.


And what I have answered every time, Mr. Learns Quickly, is that if you lift up the poor, you won't be going down to meet them, they'll be coming up to meet you.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 70 by Phat, posted 09-01-2020 3:23 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 74 by Phat, posted 09-03-2020 11:25 AM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14741
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 74 of 138 (881884)
09-03-2020 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 73 by ringo
09-01-2020 9:11 PM


Re: The Bill will get paid
ringo writes:

And what I have answered every time, Mr. Learns Quickly, is that if you lift up the poor, you won't be going down to meet them, they'll be coming up to meet you.

Lets use common sense. Where will the money come from to help the poor?
  • It wont come from the rich. They will make sure of that.
    Thus it has to come from the rest of us. You claim that the poor will come up to meet me, but I am arguing that the money I now am scarely able to save for my retirement will get taken from me through higher taxes and that I will have to drop a notch or two in order for the poor to come up to "meet me".

    You dont mention that the poor and myself will then be in the same class. They may well have come up a couple of notches, but I will have dropped a notch or two. See my point?


    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “We must realize that the Reformation world view leads in the direction of government freedom. But the humanist world view with inevitable certainty leads in the direction of statism. This is so because humanists, having no god, must put something at the center, and it is inevitably society, government, or the state.”- Francis A. Schaeffer

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killosophy


  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 73 by ringo, posted 09-01-2020 9:11 PM ringo has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 75 by Taq, posted 09-03-2020 11:30 AM Phat has responded
     Message 77 by ringo, posted 09-03-2020 12:21 PM Phat has responded

      
    Taq
    Member
    Posts: 8445
    Joined: 03-06-2009
    Member Rating: 7.4


    Message 75 of 138 (881885)
    09-03-2020 11:30 AM
    Reply to: Message 74 by Phat
    09-03-2020 11:25 AM


    Re: The Bill will get paid
    Phat writes:

    You claim that the poor will come up to meet me, but I am arguing that the money I now am scarely able to save for my retirement will get taken from me through higher taxes and that I will have to drop a notch or two in order for the poor to come up to "meet me".

    Mark 10:21
    And Jesus, looking at him, loved him, and said to him, “You lack one thing: go, sell all that you have and give to the poor, and you will have treasure in heaven; and come, follow me.”


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 74 by Phat, posted 09-03-2020 11:25 AM Phat has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 76 by Phat, posted 09-03-2020 11:37 AM Taq has not yet responded

      
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