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Author Topic:   The Great Depression No One Talks About
Phat
Member
Posts: 14741
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 106 of 138 (882045)
09-09-2020 2:05 PM
Reply to: Message 102 by ringo
09-09-2020 12:13 PM


Re: The Prodigal Son
ringo writes:

I'm telling you what JESUS told you to do. And there's no "audacity" involved. It's a direct quote. AND it isn't a one-off either. It's a theme repeated many times in the Bible.
It's about trusting God to take care of you.

But your logic...*ahem* excuse me...Jesus logic is to sell all that I have. How is that taking care of me? How is being homeless taking care of me? You really do push this stuff to its theoretical limits, but you are not being practical. Im 60 years old. I cant sell my house. End of story.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 102 by ringo, posted 09-09-2020 12:13 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 107 by DrJones*, posted 09-09-2020 2:53 PM Phat has responded
 Message 108 by Tangle, posted 09-09-2020 4:24 PM Phat has responded
 Message 110 by AZPaul3, posted 09-09-2020 6:16 PM Phat has responded
 Message 114 by ringo, posted 09-09-2020 8:27 PM Phat has responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2155
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004


Message 107 of 138 (882047)
09-09-2020 2:53 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Phat
09-09-2020 2:05 PM


Re: The Prodigal Son
How is that taking care of me? How is being homeless taking care of me?

The point is god will take care of you, don't you have faith in your lord?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Phat, posted 09-09-2020 2:05 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by Phat, posted 09-09-2020 6:28 PM DrJones* has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7993
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 108 of 138 (882050)
09-09-2020 4:24 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Phat
09-09-2020 2:05 PM


Re: The Prodigal Son
ringo writes:

How is that taking care of me? How is being homeless taking care of me?

Allah will provide.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Phat, posted 09-09-2020 2:05 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 109 by Phat, posted 09-09-2020 6:15 PM Tangle has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14741
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 109 of 138 (882051)
09-09-2020 6:15 PM
Reply to: Message 108 by Tangle
09-09-2020 4:24 PM


Giving It All Up. Put Your Money Where Your Faith Is.
Tangle writes:

Allah will provide.

See its all amusing to those of you who imagine yourselves enlightened enough to shed religion. You expect any religious guy worth listening to to have shed all of their worldly goods and waunder around like a vagabond hippie, helping homeless and sick people and taking no concern for themselves.

And I can hear him now...ringo will say "thats what Jesus did".

Jesus already died for all of us... He doesn't expect us to piously imitate His poverty. He does expect us to remove any obstacles in our lives that prevent us from trusting Him (or GOD) fully, so I can see your arguments...I simply do not agree with the necessary severity of them. And isnt it funny how it is the atheists who attempt to hold the Christian leaders to a vow of poverty when they themselves dont even believe that God exists. Y'all just mad that some of the carny hucksters exploited people for money so you push the entirely opposite extreme of every Christian leader leading by example and giving up all their worldly stuff to the poor. But the poor will always be with us, and becoming poor yourself does not solve the problem.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Tangle, posted 09-09-2020 4:24 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 115 by ringo, posted 09-09-2020 8:31 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 116 by Tangle, posted 09-10-2020 3:26 AM Phat has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5404
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.4


(1)
Message 110 of 138 (882052)
09-09-2020 6:16 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Phat
09-09-2020 2:05 PM


Re: The Prodigal Son
You were going on about ringo not taking a leap of faith in your discussion. He doesn't believe in this leap of faith you say is so necessary.

Now is your time to lead. Show us what such a leap of faith would look like. Sell your properties and possessions and take ThugPreachea to the other side of the tracks to witness the word to the struggling poor.

If you are a follower of Jesus then you have no reason not to. Leap with the faith that your god will provide for your needs.

That's a tall order for anyone. Still want to be a christian?

Realize if you can't do it then you cannot ask anyone else to be christian either.


Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Phat, posted 09-09-2020 2:05 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 112 by Phat, posted 09-09-2020 6:51 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14741
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 111 of 138 (882054)
09-09-2020 6:28 PM
Reply to: Message 107 by DrJones*
09-09-2020 2:53 PM


A Tall Order For Anyone
Dr.Jones writes:

The point is god will take care of you, don't you have faith in your lord?

You got me there. I see it as an unnecessary sacrifice. Also an unwise one. The fact that it might impress a few of you is not enough motivation to do it.
-AZPaul3 writes:

Show us what such a leap of faith would look like. Sell your properties and possessions and take Thugpreacha to the other side of the tracks to witness the word to the struggling poor.

If you are a follower of Jesus then you have no reason not to. Leap with the faith that your god will provide for your needs.

That's a tall order for anyone. Still want to be a christian?

Realize if you can't do it then you cannot ask anyone else to be christian either.


But I'm not asking *you* to give up anything more than your rational mind and to place trust in an invisible and un-evidenced God. You are asking me to give up my shelter and all of my possessions. And yes that's a tall order for anyone.

Edited by Phat, : spelling


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 107 by DrJones*, posted 09-09-2020 2:53 PM DrJones* has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by DrJones*, posted 09-09-2020 7:44 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 124 by Aussie, posted 09-10-2020 3:07 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14741
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 112 of 138 (882055)
09-09-2020 6:51 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by AZPaul3
09-09-2020 6:16 PM


The Cognitive Dissonance Is Loud
Thinking further about this challenge from my atheist brothers, I ran to the scriptures, as any good little apologist would do. After all, most of them would squirm as much as I am at this moment!

Satan Tempts Jesus

Luke 4:1-13 writes:

Then Jesus, being filled with the Holy Spirit, returned from the Jordan and was led by the Spirit into the wilderness, 2 being tempted for forty days by the devil. And in those days He ate nothing, and afterward, when they had ended, He was hungry.

3 And the devil said to Him, "If You are the Son of God, command this stone to become bread."

4 But Jesus answered him, saying, "It is written, 'Man shall not live by bread alone, but by every word of God.'"

5 Then the devil, taking Him up on a high mountain, showed Him all the kingdoms of the world in a moment of time. 6 And the devil said to Him, "All this authority I will give You, and their glory; for this has been delivered to me, and I give it to whomever I wish. 7 Therefore, if You will worship before me, all will be Yours."

8 And Jesus answered and said to him, "Get behind Me, Satan! For it is written, 'You shall worship the LORD your God, and Him only you shall serve.'"

9 Then he brought Him to Jerusalem, set Him on the pinnacle of the temple, and said to Him, "If You are the Son of God, throw Yourself down from here. 10 For it is written:

'He shall give His angels charge over you,
To keep you,'

11 and,

'In their hands they shall bear you up,
Lest you dash your foot against a stone.'"

12 And Jesus answered and said to him, "It has been said, 'You shall not tempt the LORD your God.'"

13 Now when the devil had ended every temptation, he departed from Him until an opportune time.
NKJV

I will be honest with you---your challenge bothers me because I realize that I cant do it. Granted I could see it as being a temptation from Satan, (especially coming from you ) but in all honesty, Jesus was led by the Spirit into the desert and the way I read that it was the Holy Spirit and not the adversary that led Him into that time of denial and fasting. Isnt it just like God to use an atheist to convict me!

So I guess I cant ever encourage any of you to take Leaps of Faith since I cant do it either. Not that I feel led by the Spirit to give up all that I have. But you did touch a nerve.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by AZPaul3, posted 09-09-2020 6:16 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 118 by AZPaul3, posted 09-10-2020 6:53 AM Phat has responded

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2155
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004


Message 113 of 138 (882057)
09-09-2020 7:44 PM
Reply to: Message 111 by Phat
09-09-2020 6:28 PM


Re: A Tall Order For Anyone
I see it as an unnecessary sacrifice. Also an unwise one.

nevertheless it is what your lord requires of you, who are you to oppose his will?

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 111 by Phat, posted 09-09-2020 6:28 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18822
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 114 of 138 (882058)
09-09-2020 8:27 PM
Reply to: Message 106 by Phat
09-09-2020 2:05 PM


Re: The Prodigal Son
Phat writes:

How is that taking care of me? How is being homeless taking care of me?


Everything isn't about taking care of you.

Phat writes:

You really do push this stuff to its theoretical limits....


I'm not pushing anything. It's what Jesus said.

And it isn't just theoretical: The church at Rome, Jesus Himself, His disciples, the woman with two mites, the widow who fed Elijah, missionaries, clergymen, ascetics from various religions....


"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by Phat, posted 09-09-2020 2:05 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by Phat, posted 09-10-2020 9:47 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18822
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 115 of 138 (882059)
09-09-2020 8:31 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by Phat
09-09-2020 6:15 PM


Re: Giving It All Up. Put Your Money Where Your Faith Is.
Phat writes:

He doesn't expect us to piously imitate His poverty.


Clearly He does.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Phat, posted 09-09-2020 6:15 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7993
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


(1)
Message 116 of 138 (882065)
09-10-2020 3:26 AM
Reply to: Message 109 by Phat
09-09-2020 6:15 PM


Re: Giving It All Up. Put Your Money Where Your Faith Is.
Phat writes:

You expect any religious guy worth listening to to have shed all of their worldly goods and waunder around like a vagabond hippie, helping homeless and sick people and taking no concern for themselves.

‘We’ don't expect anything. 'We' are simply pointing out what it says in your book. Every Christian that I have ever met participates in a pick 'n mix form of the belief. It's just as well they do because Christ's message does not allow our society to function if it was followed by all.

And I can hear him now...ringo will say "thats what Jesus did".

And you know he's right.

He doesn't expect us to piously imitate His poverty.

No he commands you to actually do it. But only, of course, if you want to be saved. Jolly inconvenient.

But the poor will always be with us, and becoming poor yourself does not solve the problem.

That's a rationalisation. You're trying to find an excuse for not doing what your Lord commands you to do. You don't actually believe Christ's message Phat, do you? You only choose to believe those bits that are good for you.

Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by Phat, posted 09-09-2020 6:15 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by Phat, posted 09-10-2020 5:37 AM Tangle has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14741
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 117 of 138 (882069)
09-10-2020 5:37 AM
Reply to: Message 116 by Tangle
09-10-2020 3:26 AM


Re: Giving It All Up. Put Your Money Where Your Faith Is.
Tangle writes:

You don't actually believe Christ's message Phat, do you? You only choose to believe those bits that are good for you.

I can sum all of this concern up in one answer. I know Christ beyond simply as a character in a book. I don't have to look up what He says in the book to verify any command or will of His. This is what you people cant see..or if you do see it you will only claim that it is all a fantasy of ours.

Some of us actually know the living Christ. At best, the book will confirm what He wants us to do but we never limit our interpretation of His Daily Will for us to the character and characters in the Book.

And i know you will now say that this is why Christianity is such a danger to the world. It wont go away quietly.

And one more thing. We believe in confirmation through the living Body of Christ. Not through a bunch of atheistic Critical Thinkers.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Tangle, posted 09-10-2020 3:26 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by Aussie, posted 09-10-2020 3:17 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 128 by Tangle, posted 09-10-2020 5:20 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5404
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.4


(2)
Message 118 of 138 (882073)
09-10-2020 6:53 AM
Reply to: Message 112 by Phat
09-09-2020 6:51 PM


Re: The Cognitive Dissonance Is Loud
The challenge, the temptation, is not coming from me.

It is coming from the tenets of your own religion.

Like a Buddhist monk challenged to seek enlightenment you keep trying and praying to be christian but you just can't seem to levitate. Butt will just not leave the floor.

Phat The Flying MonkTM is not going to happen. Your christian ideal is unrealistic, an exaggeration of a false reality and cannot be reached. And if reached, cannot be maintained as a social norm. The christianity you and your brethren seek is not compatible with H. Sapiens.

OK, so the ideal is out of reach. You still have something to strive for.

Except, this case, divesting of all and walking the pauper's path in the glory of your god, is an example of false christian expectations. You cannot claim your seat in the choir by doing so because you realistically cannot do so. The expectation is not achievable. It is a false tenet. A lie.

What other tenets of your faith are false, unobtainable? The promise of forever? Life after death? Infinite love, compassion and mercy? The resurrection?

Those other leaps of faith are easy to make. They don't cost you anything to believe. But where do those expectations come from?

While examining the reality of the one tenet, Phat, there are several more for you to look at with the same critical eye.

Almost there, Phat. Come over to the dark side.


Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by Phat, posted 09-09-2020 6:51 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 121 by Phat, posted 09-10-2020 9:44 AM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
Aussie
Member
Posts: 267
From: Sanford, FL USA
Joined: 10-02-2006


(1)
Message 119 of 138 (882076)
09-10-2020 9:07 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by Phat
08-22-2020 2:30 PM


Re: Perhaps You Can Elaborate?
Yeah but the Left Wing is dominated by atheists, witches, all sorts of Trans Sexual paganism, Greta, and assorted humanist tree huggers.

Hi Phat,

I'm sorry dude, you used to NOT sound this crazy. Witches? Transsexual pagans? It's like your brain is being sucked into a really bad Lord of the Rings rip-off, and it's just sad to see.


"...heck is a small price to pay for the truth"

This message is a reply to:
 Message 44 by Phat, posted 08-22-2020 2:30 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by Phat, posted 09-10-2020 9:21 AM Aussie has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14741
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 120 of 138 (882077)
09-10-2020 9:21 AM
Reply to: Message 119 by Aussie
09-10-2020 9:07 AM


Topic Refocus
I'm just ranting, Aussie. If you think I'm bad you should see some of the people I know. What I'm essentially saying, however is that extremists on the Left are every bit as toxic as extremists on the Far Right. Just different manifestations of toxicity.

My chore this morning is to get these 4 or 5 topics where I am ranting with y'all to somewhat get back to the listed topics at hand.

This one is specifically about a Coming Great Depression...which I've noted is still discussed, seemingly financially imminent yet not manifesting in any notably apocalyptic ways. Do you see the possibility of such a global event? Or is someone holding it back until AFTER the elections?


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 119 by Aussie, posted 09-10-2020 9:07 AM Aussie has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 127 by Aussie, posted 09-10-2020 3:26 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
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