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Author Topic:   Miracle Of The Sun & Other Musings
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 17 of 327 (880795)
08-11-2020 2:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Trump won
08-11-2020 12:03 AM


Re: Proudly Roman Catholic
quote:
Miracle of the Sun - Wikipedia
You didn’t bother to read it, did you?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Trump won, posted 08-11-2020 12:03 AM Trump won has not replied

Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 42 of 327 (880884)
08-13-2020 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 38 by Phat
08-13-2020 11:48 AM


Re: About Popes And Presidents
quote:
I might point out, however, that the serpant may have told only a half truth. Yes, we would be *like God* yet we never have and never will *be God.*
According to the story the serpent said that humans would become like God in knowing good and evil. According to the story they did just that, and God himself said so.
You have no excuse for not knowing that, so why are you continually disagreeing with the Bible in this point?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 38 by Phat, posted 08-13-2020 11:48 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 43 by Phat, posted 08-13-2020 12:18 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 44 of 327 (880890)
08-13-2020 12:37 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Phat
08-13-2020 12:18 PM


Re: About Popes And Presidents
quote:
Im not disagreeing except to say that the story is not at that point complete
I’d say that you are. What the serpent said in the story - that Adam and Eve would be like God in knowing good and evil - is not a half-truth according to the story itself.
quote:
WQe bacame liberated humans in that we could decide our destiny for ourselves, but the rest of the story is that we also have the freedom to accept Jesus Christ and that too many people downplay that option and prefer to be "like gods" rather than willfully submit to God and reunite again, undoing the snakes dastardly scheme.
So when you say that the story is not complete you mean that you want to add things to it. Now maybe in your story the serpent told your half truth, but is isn’t in the Bible. So at least have the honesty to admit that you are talking about a story you invented,
quote:
Too many people are ok with the snakes liberation it gave us from authority,little realizing that we need that authority.
We don’t need a theocratic dictatorship.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Phat, posted 08-13-2020 12:18 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 45 by Phat, posted 08-15-2020 7:37 AM PaulK has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


(1)
Message 144 of 327 (881981)
09-07-2020 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by Phat
09-07-2020 2:43 PM


Re: Selling All One Has
I think that I should point out that the major scandal is not the number of child-abusing priests - bad as that is.
The Roman Catholic Church covered up those crimes, protected the guilty and enabled them to repeat their crimes against more children. THAT is the biggest scandal, and it seems to me adequate reason for sanctions against the RCC.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by Phat, posted 09-07-2020 2:43 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 146 by Phat, posted 09-07-2020 2:55 PM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 147 of 327 (881985)
09-07-2020 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by Phat
09-07-2020 2:55 PM


Re: Selling All One Has
I will point out that I did not insist on ruinous sanctions, only that sanctions were justified.
And indeed, the United States did act appallingly against the Native Americans in many ways - the scale of reparations is a question to be answered but certainly it can be considered just that there should be some.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by Phat, posted 09-07-2020 2:55 PM Phat has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


(2)
Message 221 of 327 (882264)
09-16-2020 2:29 PM
Reply to: Message 217 by Phat
09-16-2020 1:37 PM


Re: The Uncaused First Cause Argument
I have three comments to make.
First, there is no adequate evidential or logical case against an infinite regress. I can manage better (but not decisive) arguments against a Creator God. Nevertheless I do not accept an infinite regress, or that everything came from nothing (in the absolute sense of ‘nothing ‘).
Second, it is a huge step from a First Cause to a Creator, and almost as big a step from a generic Creator to the specific Gods proposed by human religions. I have seen attempts to bridge the first gap, but they are sadly inadequate.
Third, as best we can tell the only minds we know of are dependent on matter - indeed on complex organised matter. It does not make sense to argue that mind proceeded matter unless we can establish that a non-material mind can exist, and exist in a way that would permit it to exist prior to matter. That has not been done.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 217 by Phat, posted 09-16-2020 1:37 PM Phat has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 231 of 327 (882279)
09-17-2020 12:31 AM
Reply to: Message 226 by Trump won
09-16-2020 7:24 PM


quote:
funny the same guy that i called a dumbass told me to fuck off
then mooseus thought she had me and i had edited the post before she could threaten me with a permaban
don't threaten me with a good time
Oh come on, you’re enjoying it, pretending to be a Catholic so Catholicism gets the blame for your vile behaviour.
quote:
bout had enough of this clown show
There is serious discussion here. The fact that you run away from it says plenty about you, but nothing about this forum.
quote:
there is a serious demonic spirit on this forum phat
You are flattering yourself. Your nastiness is only human, no matter what you think.
quote:
as we know satan loves atheists,
they work for free
Well you’re working a lot harder for him, but don’t expect payment.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 226 by Trump won, posted 09-16-2020 7:24 PM Trump won has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 232 by Trump won, posted 09-17-2020 1:25 AM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 233 of 327 (882281)
09-17-2020 1:36 AM
Reply to: Message 232 by Trump won
09-17-2020 1:25 AM


quote:
if i respond in kind i get perma'd. flattered catholics get held to a higher standard here. i'm very catholic. the one thing i'm proud of. satan would love for me to believe i'm not, but i can't. i will always be roman catholic. foreveR
You’ve already done worse without being banned. And you contribute nothing of value here.
And if you are Catholic why on earth would you want to promote a negative image of Catholicism? Why would you post a cartoon paintImg Christians as stupid gullible idiots ?
quote:
i've been dealt more nastiness than i could ever imagine here, i don't respond in kind.
Nonsense.
quote:
i called a guy dumb on here once. he called me satan about 50 times on here. no mod action. mod inaction. sick place evc is.
So one guy gets a bit carried away in response to your bad behaviour. You are still far worse.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 232 by Trump won, posted 09-17-2020 1:25 AM Trump won has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 234 by Trump won, posted 09-17-2020 1:56 AM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 235 of 327 (882283)
09-17-2020 2:10 AM
Reply to: Message 234 by Trump won
09-17-2020 1:56 AM


quote:
i've contributed more value here than anyone else.
Really? So where can I find serious well-reasoned discussion from you?
quote:
but go on and make another thread about ORANGE MAN BAD
Even if pointing out the bad things that Trump is doing were of no value - and it is certainly better than the mindless nastiness you show towards Biden - it is hardly the only thing I post here, even recently, even in the last 24 hours.
Should I remind you of where I was seriously arguing against Kleinman’s arrogant bullying? Where you weighed in despite being unable to understand the arguments - complaining that we shouldn’t criticise Kleinman’s posts because he claimed to have published scientific papers (which had very little relevance to the main points of discussion).
quote:
not sure where you get off judging my contributions
To point out that your departure would only improve the forum.
quote:
paulk's are a dime a dozen on here.
Intelligent and rational conversation is good. So that’s a compliment to the forum.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 234 by Trump won, posted 09-17-2020 1:56 AM Trump won has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 236 by Trump won, posted 09-17-2020 2:11 AM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 239 of 327 (882287)
09-17-2020 2:18 AM
Reply to: Message 236 by Trump won
09-17-2020 2:11 AM


quote:
who created the code? we're living in a wonderful reality, perhaps even a simulation, but who wrote the code for this joint as you know very complex coding.
You could make the same argument about anything capable of writing the (assumed) code. How could anything so complex and wonderful exist unless it were designed? So I don’t find that a convincing argument,
Now we don’t understand the basis of our reality, It operates in ways contrary to our intuitions. Even apparently solid matter is mostly empty space and that’s before we get down to quantum mechanics where things get really strange. But can it be considered to be code? Is it something that was written? Or is it just something - or a collection of things - following it’s inherent nature? How do you tell the difference?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 236 by Trump won, posted 09-17-2020 2:11 AM Trump won has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 240 by Trump won, posted 09-17-2020 2:25 AM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 241 of 327 (882289)
09-17-2020 2:27 AM
Reply to: Message 237 by Trump won
09-17-2020 2:17 AM


quote:
thankfully smarmy atheists that lift their noise to anyone expressing Christian belief are crowded here and in short supply in the real world.
Now see this is just insulting, and untrue.
quote:
atheism is a rich man's disease, a boyish, unnuanced, unthinking, ignorance of straightforward reality
And more insults instead of rational discussion. You are doing great work illustrating my points.
quote:
who coded this place, atheist guru?
Percy coded this forum. So far as I can tell there’s no good reason to suppose that anyone coded the universe.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 237 by Trump won, posted 09-17-2020 2:17 AM Trump won has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 242 by Trump won, posted 09-17-2020 2:38 AM PaulK has not replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 243 of 327 (882291)
09-17-2020 2:43 AM
Reply to: Message 240 by Trump won
09-17-2020 2:25 AM


quote:
you don't understand the basis of your reality, yet you assume that it could not have had a creator?
Nobody understands it. And I follow parsimony in assuming the absence of a creator unless and until the evidence warrants it.
quote:
is that a rational position?
My actual position certainly is.
quote:
you've plainly admitted in front of the atheist cohort that even inorganic matter is infinitely complex and mystifying.
At the levels we usually deal with it isn’t. The complexities are found at the sub-atomic level.
quote:
yet you seem unable to draw the analogy that as human beings, endowed with the ability to create, that a cosmic force or god couldn't possibly have lifted a finger to create.
No, I am just unwilling to accept a weak analogy as sufficient argument. Because it is not.
quote:
there's no reason why a leaf is shaped as it is, in a triangular fashion, or oval shape, rather than being a collection of squiggly lines.
That is an assumption. Leaves are certainly shaped by evolution. Can you show that your squiggly lines would function equally well in the environments where the trees actually live? Can you show that your squiggly lines are a reasonable possibility given the developmental biology and evolutionary history of trees?
quote:
this world is clearly coded to a certain aesthetic. one that seems to be based around pain and suffering, but a discernible aesthetic no less.
That is your opinion, not fact. Though if it were fact it would certainly not depict the coder in a flattering light.
quote:
the more you correspond with me the more you will understand that you will intellectually never surpass the role of cruiserweight, and i'm the heavyweight champ of the world, the smartest gentleman to ever register an account on evc forum, a place far beneath my intellect and hubris
As you have demonstrated, you are just an arrogant little kid shouting insults from his paddle-boat. (Do you even know what hubris means?)

This message is a reply to:
 Message 240 by Trump won, posted 09-17-2020 2:25 AM Trump won has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 244 by Trump won, posted 09-17-2020 2:57 AM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 246 of 327 (882294)
09-17-2020 3:05 AM
Reply to: Message 244 by Trump won
09-17-2020 2:57 AM


quote:
do i know what hubris means?
do you know that i have an MA in english studies and that i worked with famous writers.
Then you know that hubris is not a good thing at all. And yet you boast of it.
quote:
assumptions are your trade.
Funny you say that when you use them so often.
quote:
leaves that looked like squiggly lines could perform functionally just as well as what we have, if the code said it had to.
Could they? Perhaps you’d like to back that up.
quote:
don't you understand that? that everything is unique according to a certain molecular, biological, and genetic code?
That is not the same thing at all. The genes don’t get to dictate that squiggly line leaves must work. They just get to build leaves and those that work better have an advantage that make them more likely to be passed on to future generations.
quote:
you are interested in how the universe works, but you are overlooking the "why" of why does it work the way it does.
It’s an assumption that there is a why beyond the how. Until that can be shown there is nothing to overlook.
quote:
a car is designed to look and perform and operate a certain way. we're an infinitely more complex structure than a car, yet you don't seem concerned about who created our code
The evidence is consistent with there being no who who created our code. So it’s an unnecessary assumption, and that is something nobody needs to be concerned with.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 244 by Trump won, posted 09-17-2020 2:57 AM Trump won has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 247 by Trump won, posted 09-17-2020 3:13 AM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 248 of 327 (882296)
09-17-2020 3:16 AM
Reply to: Message 247 by Trump won
09-17-2020 3:13 AM


quote:
so there is a code and unless the code is sentient and created itself there had to be a coder
Again, that’s an assumption.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 247 by Trump won, posted 09-17-2020 3:13 AM Trump won has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 249 by Trump won, posted 09-17-2020 3:21 AM PaulK has replied

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 17822
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 250 of 327 (882298)
09-17-2020 3:31 AM
Reply to: Message 249 by Trump won
09-17-2020 3:21 AM


quote:
has a video game ever written itself into existence? maybe banjo & kazooie?
Humans aren’t any of those, nor are trees. Why don’t you go away and actually come back with a rational argument that takes the evidence into account?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 249 by Trump won, posted 09-17-2020 3:21 AM Trump won has not replied

  
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