Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 83 (9005 total)
41 online now:
AZPaul3, DrJones*, Pollux (3 members, 38 visitors)
Newest Member: kanthesh
Post Volume: Total: 881,107 Year: 12,855/23,288 Month: 580/1,527 Week: 19/240 Day: 19/17 Hour: 1/0

Announcements: Topic abandonment warning (read and/or suffer the consequences)


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Miracle Of The Sun & Other Musings
Tangle
Member
Posts: 7911
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 136 of 294 (881972)
09-07-2020 2:59 AM


So now we have fingers in ears, public prayer piety and Phat cheers the loon for his efforts.

Well done you two, by acting like fundamentalist crackpots you and your like are causing the death of religion in our societies. Keep it up.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14597
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 137 of 294 (881974)
09-07-2020 9:51 AM
Reply to: Message 117 by youwerecreatedbyjc
09-06-2020 3:06 PM


In Defense Of Catholism(The Roman Variety)
First the critics:

jar writes:

You keep trying to market a disgusting pathetic picayune psycopath of a god that is totally unworthy of any respect.

I don't know about Chris, but the God I "market" is in no need of anyones respect.
Acts7:48 NKJV writes:

"However, the Most High does not dwell in temples made with hands, as the prophet says:
'Heaven is My throne,
And earth is My footstool.
What house will you build for Me? says the LORD,
Or what is the place of My rest?
Has My hand not made all these things?'

"You stiff-necked and uncircumcised in heart and ears! You always resist the Holy Spirit; as your fathers did, so do you.


Also:
Acts 17:24-34 NKJV writes:

God, who made the world and everything in it, since He is Lord of heaven and earth, does not dwell in temples made with hands. 25 Nor is He worshiped with men's hands, as though He needed anything, since He gives to all life, breath, and all things. 26 And He has made from one blood every nation of men to dwell on all the face of the earth, and has determined their preappointed times and the boundaries of their dwellings, 27 so that they should seek the Lord, in the hope that they might grope for Him and find Him, though He is not far from each one of us; 28 for in Him we live and move and have our being, as also some of your own poets have said, 'For we are also His offspring.' 29 Therefore, since we are the offspring of God, we ought not to think that the Divine Nature is like gold or silver or stone, something shaped by art and man's devising. 30 Truly, these times of ignorance God overlooked, but now commands all men everywhere to repent, 31 because He has appointed a day on which He will judge the world in righteousness by the Man whom He has ordained. He has given assurance of this to all by raising Him from the dead."

32 And when they heard of the resurrection of the dead, some mocked, while others said, "We will hear you again on this matter." 33 So Paul departed from among them.

Of course jar thinks that the God we market is one whom we have created. In fact, he is quite dismissive of the God whom Chris sees.

jar writes:

Come on, if you are gonna quote quote it all. The lord you market is a disgusting pathetic picayune psyhcopath of a god that is totally unworthy of any respect.
And yes, marketing Christ Crucified simply demeans and denigrates Jesus and makes his whole message totally worthless.
It is disgusting that you pervert Jesus to such an extent.

jar markets a God whom was and is essentially created by human wisdom. He thus throws such a God away and invites the secular humanists to simply roll up their sleeeves and help do good at the local soup kitchen or prison. Additionally, it seems that many here at EvC are quite spiteful and in favor of total abolishment of the RCC. I've noticed that about liberals. They can be the most unforgiving people on the planet. Unless, of course...it is their own perverts whom they support.



Dont let these folks anywhere near your kids either.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 117 by youwerecreatedbyjc, posted 09-06-2020 3:06 PM youwerecreatedbyjc has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by jar, posted 09-07-2020 11:38 AM Phat has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32915
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 138 of 294 (881975)
09-07-2020 11:38 AM
Reply to: Message 137 by Phat
09-07-2020 9:51 AM


Re: In Defense Of Catholism(The Roman Variety)
Phat writes:

jar markets a God whom was and is essentially created by human wisdom.

Phat, Phat, Phat.

Please stop lying.

Really.

Why do you constantly misrepresent and lie about what I post?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 137 by Phat, posted 09-07-2020 9:51 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 139 by Phat, posted 09-07-2020 12:18 PM jar has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14597
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 139 of 294 (881976)
09-07-2020 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 138 by jar
09-07-2020 11:38 AM


Re: In Defense Of Catholism(The Roman Variety)
Have you not marketed GOD God and god?

Have you not stated that GOD is unknowable while we are living?

Have you not asserted that humans are all universally charged to do what we intrinsically know to do based on human wisdom?

Have you not told me to throw God away?


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 138 by jar, posted 09-07-2020 11:38 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 141 by jar, posted 09-07-2020 12:36 PM Phat has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5309
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 140 of 294 (881977)
09-07-2020 12:31 PM
Reply to: Message 135 by youwerecreatedbyjc
09-07-2020 1:53 AM


Re: Mary Ever-Virgin pray for me.
So Mary is a god-creature like satan, jesus and jahova, each with their own god-like powers. And Mary now comes in an extra-virgin flavor.

Well, I guess if you can do that for olives why not for rape victims.


Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 135 by youwerecreatedbyjc, posted 09-07-2020 1:53 AM youwerecreatedbyjc has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32915
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 141 of 294 (881978)
09-07-2020 12:36 PM
Reply to: Message 139 by Phat
09-07-2020 12:18 PM


Can Phat even see when he is lying?
Phat writes:

Have you not marketed GOD God and god?
Have you not stated that GOD is unknowable while we are living?

Have you not asserted that humans are all universally charged to do what we intrinsically know to do based on human wisdom?

Have you not told me to throw God away?

Think Phat, for once actually try to think.

Which of the things you quoted support your lie that "jar markets a God whom was and is essentially created by human wisdom."?

Why must you always lie Phat?

Then if you can, point out the new examples of you lying in your recent post that is quoted above.

Edited by jar, : fix sub-title.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 139 by Phat, posted 09-07-2020 12:18 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 145 by Phat, posted 09-07-2020 2:50 PM jar has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18755
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 1.7


Message 142 of 294 (881979)
09-07-2020 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 134 by youwerecreatedbyjc
09-07-2020 1:27 AM


i'll take this bluster seriously when you sell all of your worldly possessions and live in a homeless camp

I'm not the one who claims to "believe in Jesus".

He also said, "By their fruits ye shall know them." From the Vulgate: charity, joy, peace, patience, benignity (kindness), goodness, longanimity (forbearance), mildness (gentleness), faith, modesty, continency (self-control), and chastity.

Not seeing a lot of those in you.


"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 134 by youwerecreatedbyjc, posted 09-07-2020 1:27 AM youwerecreatedbyjc has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 143 by Phat, posted 09-07-2020 2:43 PM ringo has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14597
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 143 of 294 (881980)
09-07-2020 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 142 by ringo
09-07-2020 1:18 PM


Selling All One Has
ringo writes:

I'm not the one who claims to "believe in Jesus".

So let me get this straight. Only those who claim to believe in Jesus are supposed to give it all up?

And while we are talking on Chris's page here, I'll be honest what I feel concerning Christianity.

The early believers appeared to be 100% all in. They knew the power of the Risen Christ as well as knowing Him personally before He was crucified. In those first 300 years AD, the five churches were established in five major cities...Rome, Jerusalem, Antioch, Alexandria, and Damascus. Or was it Ephesus? Anyway, Christianity was already becoming watered down...as many sought positions, prestige, and an excuse to go forth and conquer land and lands.

It has always been true with humans. Even knowing God is never enough. We have an innate propensity to rebel and seek to raise ourselves up instead of Jesus. The RCC split from the other 4 cities in 1066, and was the major economic and political wing of Catholicism. Many of the early Popes were accused of being corrupt and/or driven by their own ambitions, but just as Jesus told Peter, the gates of hell never prevailed against the church because there were genuine strong moral (and spiritual) people within that Body.

quote:
As of May 31, 2019, information published by the United States Conference of Catholic Bishops (USCCB) indicates that the conference has counted 7,002 clerics "not implausibly" and "credibly" accused of sexually abusing minors in the period 1950 through June 30, 2018, with three gaps in the USCCB data. Out of the 118,184 priests who have worked in those years, the 7,002 priests accused of abusing children are 5.9% of the total.

Collated USCCB Data
On the Number of U.S. Priests Accused of Sexually Abusing Children and the Numbers of Persons Alleging Abuse
1950–2018

This modern scandal is inexcusable and as bad as anything the early RCC faced, but it does not mean that the entire organisation should be disbanded. The church has a lot of educated and skilled members who are capable of helping many people. It seems that those of you who want them brought down have never acknowledged credibility to the competency of these members anyway.

And as to the edict that you often push to sell all that one has, might I remind you that it was a rich young ruler who was advised to do such a thing. Nowhere is the implication that anyone of modest means should give up all they have and become poor simply to appease Jesus.

Edited by Phat, : removed Constantinople and added Damascus to the list or the original five.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 142 by ringo, posted 09-07-2020 1:18 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 144 by PaulK, posted 09-07-2020 2:49 PM Phat has responded
 Message 153 by ringo, posted 09-08-2020 12:25 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 16549
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


(1)
Message 144 of 294 (881981)
09-07-2020 2:49 PM
Reply to: Message 143 by Phat
09-07-2020 2:43 PM


Re: Selling All One Has
I think that I should point out that the major scandal is not the number of child-abusing priests - bad as that is.

The Roman Catholic Church covered up those crimes, protected the guilty and enabled them to repeat their crimes against more children. THAT is the biggest scandal, and it seems to me adequate reason for sanctions against the RCC.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 143 by Phat, posted 09-07-2020 2:43 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 146 by Phat, posted 09-07-2020 2:55 PM PaulK has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14597
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 145 of 294 (881982)
09-07-2020 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 141 by jar
09-07-2020 12:36 PM


Re: Can Phat even see when he is lying?
Note that I said you market a God...not a GOD. I suppose that whenever I paraphrase what you say, I then begin to lie. Keep in mind, however, that these issues are not solely the property of your framework. They are open to interpretation. I never knowing lie to anyone...but I may try and frame issues with favorably biased wording...so I suppose I'm guilty of that.

You love to slap me with charges of lying at every opportunity, however.

Your style of argumentation is sophomoric and appropriate for a take-no-prisoners debate at an adolescent boarding school.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 141 by jar, posted 09-07-2020 12:36 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 148 by jar, posted 09-07-2020 3:09 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14597
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 146 of 294 (881983)
09-07-2020 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 144 by PaulK
09-07-2020 2:49 PM


Re: Selling All One Has
PaulK writes:

I think that I should point out that the major scandal is not the number of child-abusing priests - bad as that is.
The Roman Catholic Church covered up those crimes, protected the guilty and enabled them to repeat their crimes against more children. THAT is the biggest scandal, and it seems to me adequate reason for sanctions against the RCC.

I can agree yet disagree with the remedy. It is similar to charging the US Government with reparations against...oh...lets say the Native Americans. As a government, they may well be guilty, but do you really expect the United States to disband all of the private property and modern day leases and claims simply to satisfy an ancient grudge? It won't happen nor should it for it would wreck the status quo of modern America. Same with the RCC.

I will say, however, that they should acknowledge their sins....yet it likely is impossible to pay for that acknowledgement without destroying the entire church...much as Reparations may well destroy the US Government and a host of private interests. You liberals really need to stop telling the rest of us what we must do and when. We are not beholden to that type of authority.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 144 by PaulK, posted 09-07-2020 2:49 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 147 by PaulK, posted 09-07-2020 3:04 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 16549
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 147 of 294 (881985)
09-07-2020 3:04 PM
Reply to: Message 146 by Phat
09-07-2020 2:55 PM


Re: Selling All One Has
I will point out that I did not insist on ruinous sanctions, only that sanctions were justified.

And indeed, the United States did act appallingly against the Native Americans in many ways - the scale of reparations is a question to be answered but certainly it can be considered just that there should be some.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 146 by Phat, posted 09-07-2020 2:55 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 32915
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 1.9


Message 148 of 294 (881986)
09-07-2020 3:09 PM
Reply to: Message 145 by Phat
09-07-2020 2:50 PM


Re: Can Phat even see when he is lying?
You are still lying Phat.

Show me where I market a God at all?

It is not me who markets GOD or God or god but you and the Apologists. And I support that assertion and have consistently supported that assertion by simply pointing out what YOU and the Apologists and the authors of the Bible actually have written.

I believe you do not knowingly lie but only because you refuse to actually think about or even read what you write.

I don't enjoy having to constantly and repeatedly point out your actions and behavior but decades of discussion with you has shown you simply are not capable of even seeing your own behavior.

Then, the reaction from you is consistently to simply avoid addressing the questions asked of you.

Which of the things you quoted support your lie that "jar markets a God whom was and is essentially created by human wisdom."?

Of the specifics I was responding to ...

Phat writes:

Have you not marketed GOD God and god?
Have you not stated that GOD is unknowable while we are living?
Have you not asserted that humans are all universally charged to do what we intrinsically know to do based on human wisdom?

Have you not told me to throw God away?

... can you even see the new examples of you lying in what is quoted above?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 145 by Phat, posted 09-07-2020 2:50 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
youwerecreatedbyjc
Member
Posts: 1925
Joined: 01-12-2004
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 149 of 294 (881989)
09-07-2020 4:15 PM


“Truly, God’s mercy is forever; it never ends, it never runs out, it never gives up when faced with closed doors, and it never tires. In this forever we find strength in moments of trial and weakness because we are sure that God does not abandon us. He remains with us forever.” — Pope Francis

Replies to this message:
 Message 150 by Capt Stormfield, posted 09-07-2020 5:48 PM youwerecreatedbyjc has not yet responded
 Message 151 by AZPaul3, posted 09-07-2020 6:52 PM youwerecreatedbyjc has not yet responded
 Message 152 by Tangle, posted 09-08-2020 10:01 AM youwerecreatedbyjc has not yet responded

  
Capt Stormfield
Member
Posts: 417
From: Vancouver Island
Joined: 01-17-2009


(1)
Message 150 of 294 (881990)
09-07-2020 5:48 PM
Reply to: Message 149 by youwerecreatedbyjc
09-07-2020 4:15 PM


“Truly, God’s mercy is forever; it never ends, it never runs out, it never gives up when faced with closed doors, and it never tires.

So a lot like stupidity and ignorance then.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 149 by youwerecreatedbyjc, posted 09-07-2020 4:15 PM youwerecreatedbyjc has not yet responded

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2020