Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 83 (9005 total)
55 online now:
AZPaul3, DrJones*, dwise1, Pollux (4 members, 51 visitors)
Newest Member: kanthesh
Post Volume: Total: 881,107 Year: 12,855/23,288 Month: 580/1,527 Week: 19/240 Day: 19/17 Hour: 1/0

Announcements: Topic abandonment warning (read and/or suffer the consequences)


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Miracle Of The Sun & Other Musings
Phat
Member
Posts: 14597
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 196 of 294 (882101)
09-10-2020 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 192 by AZPaul3
09-10-2020 12:31 PM


Phats Dilemma
AZPaul3 writes:

Tangle, you are missing the development here.
We have agape love now.

Not true. He has it. Now, He may well save all of us should He so desire. Personally I believe that if such a reality as Hell ever existed or now exists, it was not intended to be a place for people. It was the result of the free choice of the angels who decided to break rank with God and the only reason humans would end up there is by following a different Vibe...or spirit and in so doing rejecting the Holy Spirit of the Risen Christ.

We all bask in the gentle warmth of god's infinite forgiving love. All is well. All is forgiven. Sin can be no more because all sin is forgiven by his infinite agape love. The prodigal son is welcomed back into loving arms once again. All shall ascend the golden stair, the blasphemous pedophile hand in hand with the jihadi. All humanity is finally embraced as one and all shall enjoy the life and the love eternal.
Your tongue-in-cheek humor is intended to show us the silliness of organized religion and the idea of God, but it assumes that humans can remain the way that they are and have no worries. I believe that we need to change (or rather to allow the Holy Spirit to transform us) and that this all is designed to be a willful growth process.
Which means there is no longer a need for a church. What's a church going to do?
Provide a sanctuary, teaching center and place of encouragement and physical help through food banks and rent vouchers. You will claim that this is the governments role.

Dissolve the church. Sell the assets. Give the proceeds to those poor whose agape love hasn't flourished into paying all the rent just yet.
Not on my watch. I trust the governments ability to handle money even less than I do the church.

Like a Buddhist monk challenged to seek enlightenment you keep trying and praying to be christian but you just can't seem to levitate. Butt will just not leave the floor.
Phat The Flying MonkTM is not going to happen. Your christian ideal is unrealistic, an exaggeration of a false reality and cannot be reached.
I have always known that I could do little in and of myself. Granted I could be a good secular humanist and provide mental and physical comfort to needy people. But I seek more. I seek a connection with the galactic war between good and evil. Kinda like Star Wars.
Except, this case, divesting of all and walking the pauper's path in the glory of your god, is an example of false christian expectations. You cannot claim your seat in the choir by doing so because you realistically cannot do so. The expectation is not achievable.
I knew that it never was. Thankfully Jesus did it. I know that I never could do it and likely would resist even trying. But this whole idea sprang from you guys and your interpretation of what Jesus wants from us(Christians) and conveniently not intended for you. For you could never do it either.

What other tenets of your faith are false, unobtainable? The promise of forever? Life after death? Infinite love, compassion and mercy? The resurrection?
I could just as well ask you what tenets,if any, are true?

Those other leaps of faith are easy to make. They don't cost you anything to believe. But where do those expectations come from?
While examining the reality of the one tenet, Phat, there are several more for you to look at with the same critical eye.
Yes, you *do* bring up some challenging questions and issues. Thankfully for me, I dont believe that Christianity is graded entirely on works alone. I believe in Divine Grace. And that concept annoys a lot of people.

Almost there, Phat. Come over to the dark side.
If I did, the whole place might light up.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 192 by AZPaul3, posted 09-10-2020 12:31 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 199 by AZPaul3, posted 09-10-2020 10:53 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14597
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 197 of 294 (882102)
09-10-2020 5:11 PM
Reply to: Message 195 by AZPaul3
09-10-2020 3:06 PM


It Figures Carlin Was Catholic
Had to look the old comedian up.
How the comedian felt about God
quote:
He was born May 12, 1937, in New York City into an Irish Catholic family, but he rejected the faith. His parents split up when he was an infant because his father was reportedly an alcoholic. (Some famous quotes from his routine)
  • We created god in our own image and likeness!
    Religion convinced the world that there's an invisible man in the sky who watches everything you do. And there's 10 things he doesn't want you to do or else you'll to to a burning place with a lake of fire until the end of eternity. But he loves you! ...And he needs money! He's all powerful, but he can't handle money! [George Carlin, from album "You Are All Diseased" (it can also be found in the book "Napalm and Silly Putty".]
    Religion is sort of like a lift in your shoes. If it makes you feel better, fine. Just don't ask me to wear your shoes.

  • I have as much authority as the pope, I just don't have as many people who believe it.[George Carlin, Brain Droppings]

    Jesus was a cross dresser [George Carlin, Brain Droppings]

    I finally accepted Jesus. not as my personal savior, but as a man I intend to borrow money from. [George Carlin, Brain Droppings]

    I would never want to be a member of a group whose symbol was a guy nailed to two pieces of wood. [George Carlin, from the album "A Place For My Stuff"]

    A man came up to me on the street and said I used to be messed up out of my mind on drugs but now I'm messed up out of my mind on Jeeesus Chriiist.
    The only good thing ever to come out of religion was the music. [George Carlin, Brain Droppings]

  • I want you to know, when it comes to believing in God - I really tried. I really really tried. I tried to believe that there is a god who created each one of us in his own image and likeness, loves us very much and keeps a close eye on things. I really tried to believe that, but I gotta tell you, the longer you live, the more you look around, the more you realize...something is F--KED UP. Something is WRONG here. War, disease, death, destruction, hunger, filth, poverty, torture, crime, corruption and the Ice Capades. Something is definitely wrong. This is NOT good work. If this is the best god can do, I am NOT impressed. Results like these do not belong on the resume of a supreme being. This is the kind of shit you'd expect from an office temp with a bad attitude. And just between you and me, in any decently run universe, this guy would have been out on his all-powerful-ass a long time ago. [George Carlin, from "You Are All Diseased".]

  • Makes you wonder what turned him off to Catholicism.


    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killosophy


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 195 by AZPaul3, posted 09-10-2020 3:06 PM AZPaul3 has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 200 by AZPaul3, posted 09-10-2020 10:59 PM Phat has not yet responded

      
    Tangle
    Member
    Posts: 7911
    From: UK
    Joined: 10-07-2011
    Member Rating: 2.8


    Message 198 of 294 (882105)
    09-10-2020 6:19 PM
    Reply to: Message 183 by Phat
    09-10-2020 6:06 AM


    Re: Catholic, Roman Catholic, & Protestant
    Phat writes:

    Now the question. Are all Non-Catholics going to hell?

    According to Catholic doctrine, yes.

    Ask whatsisname, he's being a bit reluctant at the moment but as it's your immortal soul at stake, I'm sure he'll put you right.


    Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

    "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

    "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
    - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 183 by Phat, posted 09-10-2020 6:06 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
    AZPaul3
    Member
    Posts: 5309
    From: Phoenix
    Joined: 11-06-2006
    Member Rating: 2.7


    (1)
    Message 199 of 294 (882109)
    09-10-2020 10:53 PM
    Reply to: Message 196 by Phat
    09-10-2020 5:00 PM


    Re: Phats Dilemma
    I could just as well ask you what tenets,if any, are true?

    You know my answer to that: none of them. They're all embellished myth, Phat.

    Religious tenet and truth do not play well together.

    I dont believe that Christianity is graded entirely on works alone. I believe in Divine Grace. And that concept annoys a lot of people.

    This is one of those tenets you may want to re-examine.

    You think you can grab the golden ticket by convincing yourself (let me say that again) by convincing yourself you are a true believer?

    Only you can gauge the depth of your doubts. If you're not convinced ... He will hear your mind!

    Believing the future of your eternal soul teeters on the edge of hell by the thin thread of your mood as swept between extremes on a constant basis by your blood sugar level has got to make life intense.

    That has got to cause ulcers.


    Factio Republicana delenda est.
    I am antifa.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 196 by Phat, posted 09-10-2020 5:00 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
    AZPaul3
    Member
    Posts: 5309
    From: Phoenix
    Joined: 11-06-2006
    Member Rating: 2.7


    (1)
    Message 200 of 294 (882110)
    09-10-2020 10:59 PM
    Reply to: Message 197 by Phat
    09-10-2020 5:11 PM


    Re: It Figures Carlin Was Catholic
    Makes you wonder what turned him off to Catholicism.

    Catholicism.


    Factio Republicana delenda est.
    I am antifa.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 197 by Phat, posted 09-10-2020 5:11 PM Phat has not yet responded

      
    youwerecreatedbyjc
    Member
    Posts: 1925
    Joined: 01-12-2004
    Member Rating: 1.4


    Message 201 of 294 (882179)
    09-14-2020 11:28 PM


    interesting that george carlin was roman catholic

    i thought he was a jew.

    his chief objection to christ is that there is suffering in an imperfect world and it's god's fault.

    Christ was flayed on a stone. chunks of flesh came out of his back.

    Christ deeply communes with the suffering, in ways Carlin couldn't understand.

    perhaps his rejection of faith goes deeper into issues of parental resentment.


    Replies to this message:
     Message 204 by AZPaul3, posted 09-15-2020 11:58 AM youwerecreatedbyjc has responded

      
    youwerecreatedbyjc
    Member
    Posts: 1925
    Joined: 01-12-2004
    Member Rating: 1.4


    Message 202 of 294 (882180)
    09-14-2020 11:35 PM


    Actor-comedian George Carlin spent several summers at Camp Notre Dame on Spofford Lake (along with SNL director Dave "Wacky" Wilson and New Yorker cartoonist Leo Cullum-the camp was owned by the Cullum family) in his childhood; after his death in 2008, he was cremated and part of his ashes were scattered in the lake.[4][5]

    interesting i spent many summers at a summer camp on this lake. it was sold to a protestant group by the time i spent summers there.

    those were hellacious summers. protestant christian raised teens can be some of the most vicious people you've ever seen.

    now i have this connection with george carlin in that we both spent a lot of time on spofford lake in new hampshire.

    i was raised in an irish catholic broken family too like carlin, with nypd connections

    but jesus christ and his mother mary have given me grace my entire life

    grace to believe

    now i pray for carlin and hope he finds eternal rest with our lord and eternal creator.

    Edited by Christ crucified?, : No reason given.


    Replies to this message:
     Message 203 by Phat, posted 09-15-2020 6:06 AM youwerecreatedbyjc has not yet responded

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 14597
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003
    Member Rating: 1.0


    Message 203 of 294 (882188)
    09-15-2020 6:06 AM
    Reply to: Message 202 by youwerecreatedbyjc
    09-14-2020 11:35 PM


    Food For Thought
    Here are some good articles to chew on, Chris.
    7 Things Every Protestant Should Know About Catholicism
    7 Things Every Catholic Should Know About Protestantism

    I would love to be a fly on the wall when you and Charlie get into some of your debates on these matters.


    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killosophy


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 202 by youwerecreatedbyjc, posted 09-14-2020 11:35 PM youwerecreatedbyjc has not yet responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 224 by Tangle, posted 09-16-2020 5:41 PM Phat has not yet responded

      
    AZPaul3
    Member
    Posts: 5309
    From: Phoenix
    Joined: 11-06-2006
    Member Rating: 2.7


    (2)
    Message 204 of 294 (882202)
    09-15-2020 11:58 AM
    Reply to: Message 201 by youwerecreatedbyjc
    09-14-2020 11:28 PM


    i thought he was a jew.

    Racist much there Whatsitcatholicwhoever? Just can't help it can you.

    You probably don't see it.

    Anyway ...

    Carlin is dead. There is nothing left of him in this universe except our remembrances. Your god is fiction. It did not, does not, will not ever exist. Neither one can help you justify your faux-suffering in this world.

    Christ was flayed on a stone. chunks of flesh came out of his back.

    You love that picture, don’t you. You can see the blood gushing down the rent flesh splattering on the stone. You can feel the pain of each lash. You can hear the desperate cries of anguish. This suffering is such sweet sorrow for the catholic soul. Keep the suffering utmost in the catholic heart. Suffering, pain, anguish, blood are the bedrock of the catholic psyche.

    Such a disgusting creed you profess.


    Factio Republicana delenda est.
    I am antifa.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 201 by youwerecreatedbyjc, posted 09-14-2020 11:28 PM youwerecreatedbyjc has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 205 by youwerecreatedbyjc, posted 09-15-2020 2:12 PM AZPaul3 has responded

      
    youwerecreatedbyjc
    Member
    Posts: 1925
    Joined: 01-12-2004
    Member Rating: 1.4


    Message 205 of 294 (882216)
    09-15-2020 2:12 PM
    Reply to: Message 204 by AZPaul3
    09-15-2020 11:58 AM


    morally bankrupt, solipsistic, lying fraud of a poster you are.

    first you compare china's human rights abuses to the detainment camps on the border

    now you're calling me racist

    because i thought someone was jewish?

    that makes me racist?

    has that never happened before in history

    i thought brando was italian before i found out he was irish.

    does that make me racist?


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 204 by AZPaul3, posted 09-15-2020 11:58 AM AZPaul3 has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 206 by AZPaul3, posted 09-15-2020 3:38 PM youwerecreatedbyjc has responded

      
    AZPaul3
    Member
    Posts: 5309
    From: Phoenix
    Joined: 11-06-2006
    Member Rating: 2.7


    Message 206 of 294 (882222)
    09-15-2020 3:38 PM
    Reply to: Message 205 by youwerecreatedbyjc
    09-15-2020 2:12 PM


    first you compare china's human rights abuses to the detainment camps on the border

    Wrong poster. You really need to keep track of your responses. I never compared anything to any chinese camps. The only comparisons I make are your religion to the disgusting blood cults that all religions spread over the mind of men. That comparison, btw, is not favorable.

    that makes me racist?

    Didn't think you would see it.

    i thought brando was italian before i found out he was irish.

    does that make me racist?

    The accident of ones birth makes no difference to the talent. If you are discussing heritage that's one thing. If not then noting such has no meaning except to someone who takes such things into account when judging people. Racists.

    Like in the 70's when the newspapers finally stopped identifying every black in all of their stories whether such info was significant or not. They stopped because the white power structure finally realized that this was blatantly systemically racist.

    Since in this case it has no bearing on anything we humans do noting his heritage means nothing. Your noting your perceptions of his heritage shows you find significance paying special attention to his race /nationality.

    Weather by hateful intent or systemic ignorance you are a racist.

    Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


    Factio Republicana delenda est.
    I am antifa.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 205 by youwerecreatedbyjc, posted 09-15-2020 2:12 PM youwerecreatedbyjc has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 207 by youwerecreatedbyjc, posted 09-15-2020 8:44 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

      
    youwerecreatedbyjc
    Member
    Posts: 1925
    Joined: 01-12-2004
    Member Rating: 1.4


    Message 207 of 294 (882235)
    09-15-2020 8:44 PM
    Reply to: Message 206 by AZPaul3
    09-15-2020 3:38 PM


    Amateur hour on evcforum.

    Perpetually.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 206 by AZPaul3, posted 09-15-2020 3:38 PM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

      
    youwerecreatedbyjc
    Member
    Posts: 1925
    Joined: 01-12-2004
    Member Rating: 1.4


    Message 208 of 294 (882239)
    09-16-2020 12:13 AM


    atheists believe there is no god yet they cannot prove that something can come from nothing.

    it can't.

    and just regarding the human face or visage. there is no explanation of that. how our face is neatly organized like a child making a face on his plate out of carrots.

    the atheistic position is untenable.

    it's not that there could be a creator

    there has to be

    life cannot compose itself intelligently out of inert matter, just as inert matter can't compose itself

    atheism is a fabrication

    the greatest lie satan ever told was that you were not created

    and you believed him.

    Edited by Christ crucified?, : No reason given.


    Replies to this message:
     Message 209 by AZPaul3, posted 09-16-2020 8:44 AM youwerecreatedbyjc has responded
     Message 215 by ringo, posted 09-16-2020 12:20 PM youwerecreatedbyjc has not yet responded

      
    AZPaul3
    Member
    Posts: 5309
    From: Phoenix
    Joined: 11-06-2006
    Member Rating: 2.7


    Message 209 of 294 (882245)
    09-16-2020 8:44 AM
    Reply to: Message 208 by youwerecreatedbyjc
    09-16-2020 12:13 AM


    The catechism of a simpleton.

    Factio Republicana delenda est.
    I am antifa.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 208 by youwerecreatedbyjc, posted 09-16-2020 12:13 AM youwerecreatedbyjc has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 210 by youwerecreatedbyjc, posted 09-16-2020 9:22 AM AZPaul3 has not yet responded

      
    youwerecreatedbyjc
    Member
    Posts: 1925
    Joined: 01-12-2004
    Member Rating: 1.4


    Message 210 of 294 (882246)
    09-16-2020 9:22 AM
    Reply to: Message 209 by AZPaul3
    09-16-2020 8:44 AM


    it's easier for you to believe i'm a simpleton because i'm a threat to your inept belief system. the truth is that i'm near genius level. summa cum laude and everything else.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 209 by AZPaul3, posted 09-16-2020 8:44 AM AZPaul3 has not yet responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 212 by Phat, posted 09-16-2020 10:09 AM youwerecreatedbyjc has not yet responded
     Message 213 by Tangle, posted 09-16-2020 10:44 AM youwerecreatedbyjc has not yet responded
     Message 216 by ringo, posted 09-16-2020 12:21 PM youwerecreatedbyjc has not yet responded

      
    Newer Topic | Older Topic
    Jump to:


    Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

    ™ Version 4.0 Beta
    Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2020