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Author Topic:   The Failure of Progressivism
ringo
Member
Posts: 18941
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.2


(1)
Message 2 of 61 (881114)
08-18-2020 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by Hyroglyphx
08-18-2020 11:51 AM


Hyroglyphx writes:

I think its high time that people of a liberal persuasion stop holding on to their egos and start admitting the failures of a failing system they helped create.


Reminds me of the Cold War. Did the Soviet system fail because of its own flaws or because its enemies spent untold billions of dollars in a concerted effort to make it fail?

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-18-2020 11:51 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-18-2020 2:23 PM ringo has responded
 Message 48 by Phat, posted 10-30-2020 2:23 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18941
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 5 of 61 (881162)
08-18-2020 8:08 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Hyroglyphx
08-18-2020 2:23 PM


Hyroglyphx writes:

A little of both but mostly because it was a lesson in futility... which is kind of my point, comrade.


That's not an answer. It's a knee-jerk reaction based on your personal pejudices, not based on any real analysis. Same as the "point" in the OP.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-18-2020 2:23 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-18-2020 8:30 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18941
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.2


(5)
Message 8 of 61 (881173)
08-18-2020 10:28 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by Hyroglyphx
08-18-2020 8:30 PM


Hyrglyphx writes:

Why don’t you go line item by line item, Ringo? That way we can tackle it in depth each “personal prejudice” of mine.


I don't think there is any depth. I think you're making a fundamental mistake: assuming a cause and effect relationship that isn't necessarily there.

You think D is failing because of defects in D. I say maybe D is failing (IF D is failing) because it is being deliberately sabotaged by R.

And I don't "drive by". I do donuts on your lawn day after day after day after day after day after day....


"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by Hyroglyphx, posted 08-18-2020 8:30 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18941
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 17 of 61 (882616)
10-01-2020 12:43 PM
Reply to: Message 16 by Hyroglyphx
09-30-2020 1:40 PM


Re: Oikophobia
Hyroglyphx writes:

The constant and insistent harangue that minorities are systematically oppressed is itself the strongest indication that its total bullshit.


Crows are "free" to make a lot of noise and we either ignore them or shoot them.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 16 by Hyroglyphx, posted 09-30-2020 1:40 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 18 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-02-2020 2:24 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18941
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 19 of 61 (882653)
10-03-2020 12:05 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by Hyroglyphx
10-02-2020 2:24 PM


Re: Oikophobia
Hyroglyphx writes:

Your typical attempt at one-liner profundity fails again... Debate honestly or don't bother replying.


I'll say the same thing to you - reply to what I said.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-02-2020 2:24 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 20 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-03-2020 3:13 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18941
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 22 of 61 (882678)
10-04-2020 3:12 PM
Reply to: Message 20 by Hyroglyphx
10-03-2020 3:13 PM


[qs=Hyroglyphx]Re: Oikophobia
Hroglyphx writes:

Rebut anything I said in this thread.


I did. I pointed out that the right to protest does not mean that everything is okay.

Hyroglyphx writes:

So far your message is about squawking crows.


It was a heavy-handed metaphor. Phat got it.

Hyroglyphx writes:

It failed again.


I'll be the judge of that.

Hyroglyphx writes:

Either debate honestly or don't bother responding.


I'll say the same thing to you - reply to what I said.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 20 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-03-2020 3:13 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-05-2020 4:02 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18941
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 31 of 61 (882717)
10-06-2020 12:15 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Hyroglyphx
10-05-2020 4:02 PM


Re: [qs=Hyroglyphx]Re: Oikophobia
Hyroglyphx writes:

You're basically saying, "nuh-uh," and pretending that's a counter-argument.


What you said was obviously false and I gave an example that demonstrated that it was false.

You said, "As it relates to the current topic, if the Left's dystopian view of the US was so apparent then it would not be living a society that allows it to openly be this critical. The constant and insistent harangue that minorities are systematically oppressed is itself the strongest indication that its total bullshit." Message 16

I pointed out that the mere ability to protest does not indicate "free speech" if the protests are ignored (systematically for hundreds of years).

So go ahead and back up what you said.

Hyroglyphx writes:

Have the integrity to go line item by line item....


When you back up the first item, we can move on.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-05-2020 4:02 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 33 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-06-2020 2:00 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18941
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.2


(1)
Message 36 of 61 (882732)
10-06-2020 10:34 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by Hyroglyphx
10-06-2020 2:00 PM


Re: [qs=Hyroglyphx]Re: Oikophobia
Hyroglyphx writes:

Now that we can definitively say that not only is it not ignored....


In terms of ACTION, it is most definitely ignored. Black men are still being shot and police are walking away scot-free. It isn't the amount of noise that matters. It's the REACTION to the noise that matters. I pointed that out in my first post and you still have not addressed it.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-06-2020 2:00 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-07-2020 1:56 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18941
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 38 of 61 (882734)
10-07-2020 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by Hyroglyphx
10-07-2020 1:56 AM


Hyroglyphx writes:

... what evidence is there to assume that white officers are literally killing people just because they're black....


I didn't suggest any such thing. I pointed out that the ability to protest does not make the problem go away.

Hyroglyphx writes:

You're being led down a path of total bullshit that is absolutely destructive not only to society as a whole, but is creating incalculable damage to the black community.


I haven't said anything about what's good for the black community - except to suggest that the teeny-tiny, itsy-bitsy minority of unjustified shootings are still a bad thing.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-07-2020 1:56 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-07-2020 2:41 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18941
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 41 of 61 (882743)
10-08-2020 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by Hyroglyphx
10-07-2020 2:41 PM


Re: Typical obfuscation
Hyroglyphx writes:

... for a minute there it looks as if you said nothing is being done about black men being murdered in the streets by white police officers that are NECESSARILY racist....


Nothing I wrote looks like that. The phrase "necessarily racist" is yours, not mine.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-07-2020 2:41 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18941
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 56 of 61 (883031)
11-01-2020 2:21 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by Phat
10-30-2020 2:23 PM


Re: Addressing Some Opponents
Phat writes:

I DID look into Marxism.


Then you should know that I'm not a Marxist.

"Marx's critical theories about society, economics and politics, collectively understood as Marxism, hold that human societies develop through class conflict."

You're the one who's worried about class conflict, not me.

Phat writes:

I will argue, as does Hyro.... I further argue that Marx....


You can stop arguing about Marx. You can forget about Marx. Marx has nothing to do with me.

Phat writes:

I also am firmly opposed to the idea that Socialism is on the path towards Communism. Do you think that it is?


No.

No more than coffee is on the path towards heroin.


"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Phat, posted 10-30-2020 2:23 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 59 by Phat, posted 11-01-2020 3:56 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 18941
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.2


Message 61 of 61 (883042)
11-02-2020 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 59 by Phat
11-01-2020 3:56 PM


Re: Addressing Some Opponents
Phat writes:

Two Documentaries which I watched....


You know the drill: bring the arguments here, in your own words.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 59 by Phat, posted 11-01-2020 3:56 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
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