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Author Topic:   The Failure of Progressivism
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 1 of 61 (881111)
08-18-2020 11:51 AM


I think its high time that people of a liberal persuasion stop holding on to their egos and start admitting the failures of a failing system they helped create. The only progressive thing about Progressivism is that things get progressively worse over time. The Democrat Party is in an existential crisis where moderate voices are being drowned out by an ever-increasing shrill group of extremists.

For example, Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (AOC) is destroying NYC at an alarming rate. First she eviscerated billions of dollars and jobs for New Yorkers by killing the Amazon deal. Then she urges Mayor Cuomo to start taxing billionaire and millionaires at an exorbitant rate. It doesn't take a genius to figure out that they'll just move.... I mean, honestly... How can you be this stupid? Whether you like it or not those rich people prop up your economy regardless of how envious you are of them. Here's Mayor Cuomo pathetically groveling for New York's elite to come back? Haha, what for??? You were told for decades that this would happen and you didn't listen! You have no one to blame but yourself.

Say whatever you want about Mayor Guliani, but he cleaned up New York. The evidence is indisputable. AOC, De Blasio, and Cuomo have eviscerated the greatest city in the United States so that crime has soared well over 200% in the wake of their political grandstanding by "defunding the police," not because it does anything helpful, but because they are capitulating to an angry mob that they know is their voting base. This is just New York.

California is crumbling. People fleeing in droves. San Francisco is open sewer and so is Los Angeles. Governor Newsome, Nancy Pelosi.... These people think they can tax their way into prosperity. Never. Gonna. Happen. The entire state is insolvent. Failed economic policies after failed economic policies.

Seattle and Portland have become magnets for how deep failed Progressive policies can destroy cities. Normalizing violent riots??? If you aren't condemning it then you are condoning it. Period.

Austin, the most recognizably liberal city in Texas, is failing for the same reasons as San Francisco, Seattle and Portland. Homelessness abounds. Tent cities everywhere. Defecation in the streets. Needles littering the grounds. Aggressive panhandlers running people out of downtown. An insane City Council that thinks defunding their main police agency $150 million dollars is somehow going to improve a system.

Detroit, Chicago... liberally run cities that are imploding -- violent crimes, a nanny mentality, punishing the middle class at the expense of the poor.... Draconian gun laws yet the highest incidences of gun violence.... DUH!!!!! Why do you think this is working when all of the evidence demonstrates otherwise? Minneapolis, gone. Irreparable. Might as well be Chernobyl.

What happened to normal liberals? Moderate liberals that just want legalized weed and gay marriage? Now, if you don't check every single extremist checkbox you are effectively excommunicated and branded as Alt-Right if you don't think there should 875 genders, if you don't self-deprecate as a white liberal who needs to tithe for your sins, quietly accept Antifa as the thug wing of the Democrat party.

The DNC is completely out of control... political assassinations.... hit jobs.... extortion.... Propping up a mentally compromised man and then demanding he pick a VP that is 1. female, 2. black on the basis of identity politics and not credentials. According to her own father, their lineage is as slave owners in Jamaica.

This is the same woman who called Biden a racist, which he actually is, but she's cool with it now as long as it serves her interests politically.

Harris has jailed more black men than the entire New York City Police Department. Holy shit, this lady has some brass balls underneath that skirt. This chick is a hardline militant. Kamala Harris doesn't give a shit about black people. Kamala Harris gives a shit about Kamala Harris.

Your media is completely out of control! Forget a lack of objectivity... That's been going on for decades. Its pure rage bait these days to feed the rage junkies with. They will inflame any situation if it gets them clicks for cash... but these are the same people who pretend they are all about a redistribution of wealth while lining their pockets at the expense of the American people! You can't make this shit up; the irony abounds.

Look, you've lost your way.... And if your only metric for going this far to the Left is a hatred for Trump then you are helping Trump not hurting him. I don't want him in office any more than you do but if you can't see how this helping him in the long run then you are willfully blind. This extreme and increasingly radical views are delegitimizing liberal politics and making people vote conservative. And it is pulling people from the center further right, as they too are going so far to the right to counteract the left that is pulling hard left.

This cannot continue in this way. A house divided cannot stand. We need to be building the middle class again, not just financially, but mentally we need to find ourselves in the middle where actual change takes place.

Qui Bono??? Who benefits from all this horseshit? Its not Americans. China, Russia... they must be laughing their asses off waiting for us to implode internally so that they come after us militarily.

Tsk, tsk.... we reap what we sow. Rome is about to fall.

Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.

Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

Replies to this message:
 Message 2 by ringo, posted 08-18-2020 12:25 PM Hyroglyphx has responded
 Message 7 by nwr, posted 08-18-2020 9:16 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded
 Message 9 by anglagard, posted 08-19-2020 1:24 AM Hyroglyphx has responded
 Message 10 by Phat, posted 08-19-2020 3:04 AM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded
 Message 23 by Tusko, posted 10-05-2020 11:34 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 3 of 61 (881132)
08-18-2020 2:23 PM
Reply to: Message 2 by ringo
08-18-2020 12:25 PM


Reminds me of the Cold War.

Me too

Did the Soviet system fail because of its own flaws or because its enemies spent untold billions of dollars in a concerted effort to make it fail?

A little of both but mostly because it was a lesson in futility... which is kind of my point, comrade.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 2 by ringo, posted 08-18-2020 12:25 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 5 by ringo, posted 08-18-2020 8:08 PM Hyroglyphx has responded
 Message 11 by Phat, posted 08-19-2020 9:01 AM Hyroglyphx has responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 4 of 61 (881145)
08-18-2020 4:04 PM


Bump
Bumpity bump bump bump... Lets have it. Lets have the brilliant Progressive minds at EvC debate it.

Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.


  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 6 of 61 (881167)
08-18-2020 8:30 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by ringo
08-18-2020 8:08 PM


Oh, that’s a non-answer? How about your typical one sentence drive-bys that don’t touch upon the substance? You are the queen of non-answers. Why don’t you go line item by line item, Ringo? That way we can tackle it in depth each “personal prejudice” of mine.

"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by ringo, posted 08-18-2020 8:08 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by ringo, posted 08-18-2020 10:28 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 13 of 61 (881202)
08-19-2020 3:26 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by anglagard
08-19-2020 1:24 AM


Re: Someone is Afraid of Intelligent Women
As opposed to the successful USA conservative persuasion of 145,000 needless Coronavirus deaths (so far), and 68,000 deaths due to lack of health insurance, and the 72,000 deaths due to treating drug addiction as a moral failing. Oh, and the millions of brown and black people who don't count (Muslims, Immigrants, wedding guests murdered in wars of choice for fun and profit).

You must be looking forward to the deaths of billions due to environmental destruction with some excitement.

Thou Shalt Not Kill ------ my ass.

Conservative morality.

Next: blatant racism.

I guess you realize its indefensible and have to muddy the waters. Instead of addressing the points made you have to insert useless talking points that don't address a single point made. I'll play along for a bit...

Last time I checked no Democratic president did anything to stop the wars or get or even try to get health insurance for all until it became a big talking point. Then everyone jumped on the bandwagon and uses it as a selling point but to this day no one has actually even attempted it. Barack Obama made Bush and Trump look like peace activists in terms of the endless war in Afghanistan. He even bragged about how much of a killer he was with his drones.... Soooo Progressive. Somebody pass the peace pipe cuz this Kool-Aid tastes like a strange brew from Jonestown. And Obamacare made insurance companies more profit by mandating to people who can't afford health insurance to force them in to it Awesome strategy....

Now we have a mentally challenged pervert trying to sit at the helm with a Top Cop who knowingly fabricated or suppressed evidence to get unjust convictions.... of black people, no less, at a disproportionate rate. She was banging San Fransisco mayor Willie Brown in exchange for political favors... while he was married. This is the Democratic nominee? You can't be pleased with this ticket.

Before you predictably derail the conversation to Trump, I don't support him in the slightest so its pointless to bemoan what has already been made manifest. If your strategy is "well, at least he's not Trump," that's less than compelling. I suppose we could hold up Lenin and say, "Well, at least he's not Hitler." Its not particularly helpful


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by anglagard, posted 08-19-2020 1:24 AM anglagard has not yet responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 14 of 61 (881203)
08-19-2020 3:36 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Phat
08-19-2020 9:01 AM


Re: Some Things Are Glaringly Obvious
I aam basically a political moderate, though if pressed I will lean more towards conservatism due to my observations about Liberal Consensus

That's pretty much where I fall on the spectrum. The divide is getting worse though. The Left has really gone hard left and so has the right... This is not healthy for any of us.

We are in the early stages of a War. We did not start this war, though our adversaries wwould accuse us of provoking it simply by refusing to join them. I agree with Hyroglyphix when he defends the moderately Conservative values...Trump notwithstanding.

We are in a bit of a Cold War and its heating up. The constant drum beating of partisan politics has made it so that unless you're an extremist, you can't champion liberal or conservative viewpoints.

It makes me wonder to what degree that countries like Russia and China are helping to instigate it. Russia has been caught using disinformation campaigns using social media platforms and I wouldn't put it past China who is definitely seeking aspirations to supplant the US.

The US has been engaged in a Stealth War with China for many years, and it ramped up during the Trade Wars and the emergence (mysteriously) of COVID-19. America need not be dominant and selfish as we were in the past, but we sure are not going to roll over and allow a global consensus of nations, led by Chinas Communist Party vs our own Way Of Life....steer this world in their general direction.

The mishandling of COVID is an utter embarrassment. China and Russia are taking notes as to how and when to use biological weapons. To think that the US was this woefully unprepared really highlights our vulnerabilities. Going to war with either of those nations is an existential threat to all of humanity and should be avoided until there is simply no other choice.

These are dark times... dare I say, even apocalyptic.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Phat, posted 08-19-2020 9:01 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 15 of 61 (882591)
09-29-2020 5:03 PM


Critical Race Theory and the Cult of Woke ideology
As an expanse to this topic I'd like submit the concept of Critical Race Theory (CRT) that is a symptom of the overall Woke Cult. Just as Marxism relies on the invocation of the Proletariat and the Bourgeoisie, CRT has the similar structure of a definable victim and a definable perpetrator. The Cult of Wokeness fundamentally sees the world through the lens of Victims and Victimizers, and rarely is there any nuance for anything in between.

CRT posits that there is a hierarchical structure of systemic racism that dictates a never-ending power struggle. The irony of all this wokeness is that, in the interest of increased inclusivity for all races, genders, sexual orientations, cultures, etc, they have inadvertently compartmentalized people more than ever, which has the opposite effect through exclusivity.

For instance, "Trans Black Lives Matter." Aren't black transgendered people... black? Isn't it implied already? The people that seem to be yelling the loudest about inclusivity are the ones that seem to be excluding themselves in ever tighter concentric circles of endless labeling. These are the same people to proudly tell you that they "hate labels." There being 842 genders to express gender fluidity is a prime example of this. And then there is BLM....

Black Lives Matter, the movement, is a dishonest presentation and a distortion of the facts as if to insinuate that unless you explicitly support the tenets associated with Black Lives Matter (the movement) then you couldn't possibly support the notion that black lives matter as a concept. Of course black lives matter and you would be hard pressed to meet anyone that disagreed with it. But it means a great deal more than to frame it in such simplistic terms. Surely proponents of BLM know that.

As an example of this there was a recent video of a Karen filming women who were cleaning graffiti off of a courthouse. The graffiti supposedly was the usual defacement with words like "ACAB," "Fuck 12," and "BLM." So this Karen then deceitfully tries to shame them by insinuating that if they are cleaning graffiti off of the courthouse then it NECESSARILY must mean that they hate black people and are white supremacists.

of course, its self-defeating logic... If those women then spray-painted "BLM" on Karen's car and she became upset or attempted to remove the spraypaint from her vehicle, she would necessarily be a racist demagogue. This is the cannibalistic nature of this cult.

The same thing could be said of Second and Third Wave of Feminism. A feminist will usually frame the premise as an egalitarian movement that supports the notion that men and women ought to have equal status. Again, almost every human being would agree and yet a shocking number of women themselves wholly reject the term "Feminist." Why? Well, because just like BLM it is an intentionally dishonest presentation. Being a feminist leaves so much to interpretation because of how lost the original message has been. Modern-day feminism looks an awful lot like misandry dressed up as anti-misogyny.

Thanks to CRT, race has been weaponized and wielded with impunity. If its legitimacy as a premise is challenged in the slightest, expect to be castigated and maligned as a "racist." Because the accusation itself weighs heavier than the facts there is no need to present facts to support the accusation. Even if you view it as counterproductive and fosters actual racism to support such a theory, to question it is strictly verboten. The accuser can then just sit back and watch the accused spend all their time defending the assertion that they're racist so that a constructive debate continuously gets derailed.

This mentality, while very effective in the interim, will be the Left's undoing as they have alienated their own ideologues in cannibalistic fashion. Its ultimately self-defeating because just like in North Korea, there is a currency for outing people as dissidents and yet nobody can fully navigate through the minefield 100% of the time. Eventually your turn will come... The Left continues to eat its own and in the process almost guarantees what could have united them -- a mutual disdain for Trump. Instead, they have inadvertently created rightwingers in the process.

Appeasing a mob just means you'll be the last to be eaten.... but delaying the inevitable still means that in the end, you'll be eaten as well.

Eat a human today, be eaten by a human tomorrow.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 16 of 61 (882603)
09-30-2020 1:40 PM


Oikophobia
I was watching a video that pointed to a very interesting blog post that postulates that, in the absence of a unified external threat, that nations just about to fall begin with internal strife. More than ever does that appear to be the case as the United States ekes closer and closer to civil war.

quote:
Diverse interests are created that view each other as greater enemies than they do foreign threats. Since the common civilizational enemy has been successfully repulsed, it can no longer serve as an effective target for and outlet of people’s sense of superiority, and human psychology generally requires an adversary for the purpose of self-identification, and so a new adversary is crafted: other people in the same civilization. Since this condition of leisure and empowerment, as well as a perception of external threats as non-existential, are the results of a society’s success, success is, ironically, a prerequisite for a society’s self-hatred. What Freud has called the “narcissism of small differences” (in Civilization and Its Discontents)—the urge to compete against others even through minor distinctions like a virtuous action or the newest gadget—becomes one motivation through which a particular interest expresses its superiority over others.

This self-loathing is on display on EvC. As is summarized in the above quote, it is ironic in the sense that the ability to be overly-critical of one's own country and culture is usually an indication of its own successes.

As it relates to the current topic, if the Left's dystopian view of the US was so apparent then it would not be living a society that allows it to openly be this critical. The constant and insistent harangue that minorities are systematically oppressed is itself the strongest indication that its total bullshit.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by ringo, posted 10-01-2020 12:43 PM Hyroglyphx has responded
 Message 32 by Percy, posted 10-06-2020 1:46 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 18 of 61 (882634)
10-02-2020 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by ringo
10-01-2020 12:43 PM


Re: Oikophobia
Crows are "free" to make a lot of noise and we either ignore them or shoot them.

Your typical attempt at one-liner profundity fails again... Debate honestly or don't bother replying.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by ringo, posted 10-01-2020 12:43 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by ringo, posted 10-03-2020 12:05 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 20 of 61 (882661)
10-03-2020 3:13 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by ringo
10-03-2020 12:05 PM


Re: Oikophobia
I'll say the same thing to you - reply to what I said.

Rebut anything I said in this thread. So far your message is about squawking crows. There is a laundry list of things to unpack and for you to rebut. But you know that you can't so you resort to pithy phrases in an effort to sound profound. It failed again. Either debate honestly or don't bother responding.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by ringo, posted 10-03-2020 12:05 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 21 by Phat, posted 10-03-2020 3:44 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 24 of 61 (882691)
10-05-2020 2:06 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by Tusko
10-05-2020 11:34 AM


Thanks for starting this topic. It is interesting. Your thinking seems to be quite US-centric. Someone like AOC or Bernie Sanders isn't very extreme in a European context. Do you think their views are extreme specifically in the US context, or for you are views like theirs extreme wherever they manifest?

Bernie at least has an identifiable plan. AOC is just a starry-eyed little girl that has no business in politics.

If you actually read the Green New Deal you'll see that the vision isn't even remotely feasible. Its pie-in-the-sky nonsense that sounds great on a theoretical basis but is ultimately self-defeating, expensive beyond measure, and incredibly inefficient.

Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 23 by Tusko, posted 10-05-2020 11:34 AM Tusko has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by Tusko, posted 10-05-2020 4:06 PM Hyroglyphx has responded
 Message 28 by ramoss, posted 10-05-2020 7:39 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 25 of 61 (882693)
10-05-2020 4:02 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by ringo
10-04-2020 3:12 PM


Re: [qs=Hyroglyphx]Re: Oikophobia
I did. I pointed out that the right to protest does not mean that everything is okay.

That's not a rebuttal. You're basically saying, "nuh-uh," and pretending that's a counter-argument. Have the integrity to go line item by line item and for once actually debate or don't bother saying anything at all.

It was a heavy-handed metaphor. Phat got it.

Its low hanging fruit for the troglodytes mindlessly nodding their heads on cue.

I'll say the same thing to you - reply to what I said.

Impressively bold gaslighting attempt, Ringo... Reply to what was stated and stop swinging at the air and accusing others of doing what you're doing. Anything less will result in you being ignored until you're capable of debating honestly.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by ringo, posted 10-04-2020 3:12 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by ringo, posted 10-06-2020 12:15 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

  
Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 27 of 61 (882698)
10-05-2020 5:52 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by Tusko
10-05-2020 4:06 PM


It doesn't seem take into account that the infrastructure, once built, will be making carbon reduction "gains" year after year after the one off outlay. Surely there is a carbon spent/carbon saved arithmetic here that would make the massive initial outlay something worth doing in environmental terms?

Its specific to the Green New Deal proposal which outlined an impossible timeline. You've probably heard many times that we have about a 9 year window to make substantial attempts to mitigate greenhouse gasses before we reach a point of no return. I won't argue the point. We absolutely have to do something different but they are absolutely right to point out that you are going to make more greenhouse gasses in an effort to reduce greenhouse gasses. Also, solar panels work great in Texas... How well do you think they'll work in Montreal? In Alaska? Oregon? Maine? Vermont? Or dare I say..... in London?

AOC honestly thinks she can retrofit every home in America with solar panels but can never explain how. This isn't at all a knock on solar panels or anything, in fact I have them! Its absolutely true that there is a finite amount of natural resources that make up components of battery cells. Even if you had a small army of installers and factories churning out thousands of solar panels a year, you would come nowhere close to overcoming the logistical nightmare she is proposing.

Mining for lithium itself presents ecological problems. I'm not saying we shouldn't mine for them, I'm saying inherently you take away one problem and add a new one in its place. We know that we cannot continue down the path of fossil fuels but the Green New Deal, while well-intentioned, is not feasible.

And even if it was if you or anyone can explain how to pay that price tag, I'm open to hearing it. Nowhere is there an actual source to explain how a project with a 93 trillion dollar price tag is supposed to be funded in practice, not principal.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 29 of 61 (882709)
10-06-2020 12:31 AM
Reply to: Message 28 by ramoss
10-05-2020 7:39 PM


Well, I don't consider John Stossel 'reading what it actually says'. It misrepresents things, and shows that propoganda is in full swing there.

Oh, hey, yeah, we should obviously be listening to a 12 year old bartender with no political or scientific experience for advice on climate change You're absolutely right, the propaganda is definitely in full swing

Edited by Hyroglyphx, : No reason given.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by ramoss, posted 10-05-2020 7:39 PM ramoss has responded

Replies to this message:
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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 33 of 61 (882720)
10-06-2020 2:00 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by ringo
10-06-2020 12:15 PM


Re: [qs=Hyroglyphx]Re: Oikophobia
You said, "As it relates to the current topic, if the Left's dystopian view of the US was so apparent then it would not be living a society that allows it to openly be this critical. The constant and insistent harangue that minorities are systematically oppressed is itself the strongest indication that its total bullshit." I pointed out that the mere ability to protest does not indicate "free speech" if the protests are ignored (systematically for hundreds of years).

Ignored? Couldn't possibly be ignored if you tried. Every media outlet pumps it nonstop from every media platform possible from radio, to television to internet, every politician discusses it and its implications, the Royals are behind the movement, celebrity after celebrity supporting it, company after company making large donations, every single sports outlet (NHL, NFL, NBA, etc) openly and loudly supports it, freeways clogged, restaurant goers assaulted, motorists stopped, people forced to raise their fists in solidarity or risk being assaulted, etc. You would be hard pressed to find a single person on a planet earth that isn't at least marginally familiar with it.

Now that we can definitively say that not only is it not ignored but that it utterly dominates the social stream of conscience, perhaps you can address my points.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by ringo, posted 10-06-2020 12:15 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by ringo, posted 10-06-2020 10:34 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

  
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