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Author Topic:   Be It Stealth or Cyber: We Are In A War With China
vimesey
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Posts: 1187
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 16 of 43 (882186)
09-15-2020 4:31 AM


Me:

Tribalism needs an enemy, sadly. It’s been right wing populism’s tactic throughout history - point at a bogey man villain, and people will vote you in. They’ll even back you when you take away their vote, because of the emergency posed by the bogey man villain. When people slowly begin to realise that the bogey man was just that - a fictional bad guy - it’s too late, the damage has been done.

RC Apologist:

theyre the new nazis and if we don't reelect trump they will destroy the world

Nailed it.


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

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Phat
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Posts: 14719
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 17 of 43 (882187)
09-15-2020 5:39 AM
Reply to: Message 16 by vimesey
09-15-2020 4:31 AM


Either You Guys Dont Understand or You Dont Care
The more I've read and grasped, the more convinced I am that the entire Western system of investing is in trouble. As an example, has anyone here ever heard of the Belt & Road Initiative? This is just one of the plans being unleashed which will re-establish Chinas dominance in the world while seriously hurting Western interests.
quote:
China’s "Belt and Road Initiative" (BRI) is a planned multitrillion-dollar infrastructure program that is intended to link China with more than 100 countries through railroad, shipping and energy projects.

The BRI will recreate the Silk Road, an old network of trading routes between the East and the West, by investing large sums of money into other countries to build such infrastructure projects.



Has anyone ever heard of the ambitious construction program that China has already done in building their Ghost Cities?
Is anyone aware that China poured more concrete in 5 years than the United States poured in all of the 20th century? Does anyone know that much of the money to build these cities came from Western Bank investment?

China has plans to provide cheap living space for 300 million of its citizens in the near future. The cost will be the collapse of the Western banks and all of our pension funds that invested in this project. As the economy readjusts (a euphemism for collapsing) The middle class here will become as poor as Chinas average masses now are, while China will vault ahead of us and jars predictions wi9ll come true...we will be the gardeners, chauffeurs, waiters, and servants of this new monied class of people who will take the reins of a global tech industry which they built largely through stealing our trade secrets and improving upon them.

This is downright evil! Unlike Chris, I do not believe that Trump is the only solution to delay (at best) this inevitable global shift, but I fail to see how anyone here can profit from this brave new world that we will be forced to deal with.

China's values are not the same as American values. The only hope for all of this is the estimated 200 million Christians in China---people who are actively oppressed by the CCP.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


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Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 33010
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 18 of 43 (882190)
09-15-2020 7:35 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by Phat
09-15-2020 5:39 AM


Old News and learn the basics Phat
Building affordable homes for hundreds of millions of its citizens is evil?

Building roads and infrastructure all over the world where roads and infrastructure did not exist is evil?

Of course anyone here that has not been totally brain dead for the last few decades knows about Belt & Road. It's certainly been in the news fairly often for decades.

What will hurt US interests (not Western Interests) is the US spending money on it's military instead of foreign aid. When the US blockades and economically sanctions other nations while China offers them aid and support, which nation will they consider as a partner and which as a threat?

Faux News is poison.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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Replies to this message:
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Trump won 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 19 of 43 (882192)
09-15-2020 9:33 AM
Reply to: Message 18 by jar
09-15-2020 7:35 AM


Re: Old News and learn the basics Phat
if putting your minority population in concentration camps isn't evil...

it's amazing what communists will justify.

as long as the perp is communist, you guys will ignore human rights abuses forever.

karl marx had a demon and you are his offspring


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dwise1
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Posts: 4365
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 4.6


(1)
Message 20 of 43 (882198)
09-15-2020 9:56 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Trump won
09-15-2020 9:33 AM


Re: Old News and learn the basics Phat
if putting your minority population in concentration camps isn't evil...

Wow! Trump anyone?

So you are OK with Trump's concentration camps? OK, we know who you are.


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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


Message 21 of 43 (882199)
09-15-2020 10:44 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by vimesey
09-14-2020 10:08 AM


The new Cold War
Tribalism needs an enemy, sadly. It’s been right wing populism’s tactic throughout history - point at a bogey man villain, and people will vote you in. They’ll even back you when you take away their vote, because of the emergency posed by the bogey man villain. When people slowly begin to realise that the bogey man was just that - a fictional bad guy - it’s too late, the damage has been done.

Tribalism exists, no doubt. Some countries definitely never let a good crisis go to waste and use it to their advantage to pass legislature that ordinarily would be met with harsh criticism, no doubt. All true.

However, China most certainly has been playing the long game and absolutely want to be at the top of the heap by hook or by crook. This isn't merely an issue between the United States and to frame it as such would be disingenuous. China is a threat and a nuisance to all of its Asian neighbors. Why? Because they are illegally attempting to make virtually the entirety of the South China Sea, East China Sea and Yellow Sea exclusively theirs. One of the ways they have been doing it has been building upon atolls in the Spratley Islands and claiming it as Chinese territory. Many, if not most, of those atolls are fortified and militarized. A coalition of nations such as Vietnam, Malaysia, Phillipines, Indonesia, Japan and South Korea has formed against China.

Its not hard to understand why they are doing it. They want to control the Pacific through naval dominance and want exclusive access to those fisheries. All of this is against multiple treatises.

Then we also know what they are doing to Hong Kong, which enjoyed actual freedom for over 150 years. We know they want to invade Taiwan and force the Taiwanese to become Chinese. We know they want to make Tibet theirs. We know they have engaged in border disputes with India, Mongolia and Russia.

Then we also know of the human rights violations against the Falun Gong and most recently the Ughyer population.

As it relates to the West, there is no nation that is more active in conducting cyberwarfare against the Five Eyes (UK, US, Australia, Canada, New Zealand) more so than China. They have engaged in corporate espionage for nearly 40 years spying and stealing intellectual property.

China has a rapacious appetite. Their plans for conquest remind me of Japan's expansion in the late 1930's into the 1940's.

This Cold War we are at with China is heating up and it is no one's best interest that it boils over.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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Pressie
Member
Posts: 2087
From: Pretoria, SA
Joined: 06-18-2010


(4)
Message 22 of 43 (882200)
09-15-2020 10:50 AM
Reply to: Message 1 by Phat
09-14-2020 9:34 AM


As a foreigner to both the US and China, I think that the US system is not really better than the Chinese governmental system.

As an example, in North Carolina, a state I used to visit quite often, the Democratic Party got a substantially more votes in 2018 than the Republicans. Yet, the Republicans dominate the State legislature with many more seats. Gerrymandering and all that.

That's the opposite of how democracy is supposed to work.

So, the US and Chinese systems are not too different.

At least the Chinese are honest. That can't be said about the American system.


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ringo
Member
Posts: 18809
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.9


(2)
Message 23 of 43 (882203)
09-15-2020 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 17 by Phat
09-15-2020 5:39 AM


Re: Either You Guys Dont Understand or You Dont Care
Phat writes:

... the entire Western system of investing is in trouble...


So, if we can't compete, the solution is to stop China from being competitive?

I would have thought that if OUR system is broken, the solution would be to fix it.

Phat writes:

...we will be the gardeners, chauffeurs, waiters, and servants...


So I advocate making those jobs better NOW. Some people garden for fun. Some people enjoy driving. Those jobs are not inherently bad jobs. They're made artificially bad by the system that you worship.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

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FLRW
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Posts: 54
Joined: 10-08-2007
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 24 of 43 (882206)
09-15-2020 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 23 by ringo
09-15-2020 12:13 PM


Re: Either You Guys Dont Understand or You Dont Care
*
Remember that China ranks 5th in average IQ and the USA ranks 32nd
*

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Phat
Member
Posts: 14719
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 25 of 43 (882207)
09-15-2020 12:33 PM
Reply to: Message 18 by jar
09-15-2020 7:35 AM


Re: Old News and learn the basics Phat
One problem with the US is that we seem to focus only on short term goals and what will bring the investors gain in the next 1-5 years, whereas China is skillfully playing the long game.

What their government soes not have, which Pressie likely doesnt care about, is religious freedom. They insist that the State should be given homage before any God.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 18 by jar, posted 09-15-2020 7:35 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 28 by jar, posted 09-15-2020 1:40 PM Phat has responded
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5404
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.4


(1)
Message 26 of 43 (882211)
09-15-2020 12:52 PM
Reply to: Message 15 by Trump won
09-15-2020 12:15 AM


They may destroy Trump's viciously violent and hatefully divisive view of the world, but that's a good thing.

Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5404
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.4


(2)
Message 27 of 43 (882213)
09-15-2020 12:58 PM
Reply to: Message 19 by Trump won
09-15-2020 9:33 AM


Re: Old News and learn the basics Phat
karl marx had a demon and you are his offspring

Satan has his advocates and you speak in his voice.


Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

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jar
Member
Posts: 33010
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 28 of 43 (882215)
09-15-2020 1:40 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Phat
09-15-2020 12:33 PM


Re: Old News and learn the basics Phat
Phat writes:

What their government soes not have, which Pressie likely doesnt care about, is religious freedom. They insist that the State should be given homage before any God.

That is simply not true Phat. Stop listening to all the lying Apologists and CCoI.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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Trump won 
Suspended Member
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004
Member Rating: 1.5


Message 29 of 43 (882217)
09-15-2020 2:16 PM


i have yet to see evidence that trump's detainment camps are remotely similar to the work and genocide camps in china where they hold uyghur muslims.

keep making it up.

communists love communism as long as they can subject everyone else to it and reap the benefits.

and trump fucked up with china

but biden is a fuck up

and he sings to the highest bidder

china must be stopped


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Phat
Member
Posts: 14719
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 30 of 43 (882218)
09-15-2020 2:33 PM
Reply to: Message 28 by jar
09-15-2020 1:40 PM


Re: Old News and learn the basics Phat
Phat writes:

What their government does not have, which Pressie likely doesnt care about, is religious freedom. They insist that the State should be given homage before any God.

jar writes:

That is simply not true Phat. Stop listening to all the lying Apologists and CCoI.

Do you think thats all I listen to? I'm no dummy. I can listen to various media and discriminate truth from propaganda as well as anyone.

Lets start with Wikipedia. Freedom of religion in China

quote:
Freedom of religion in China is provided for in the Constitution of the People's Republic of China,[1] with an important caveat: the government protects what it calls "normal religious activity," defined in practice as activities that take place within government-sanctioned religious organizations and registered places of worship. Although the dynastic governments of imperial China also claimed responsibility for the practice of religion, human rights bodies such as United States Commission on International Religious Freedom (USCIRF) have criticized this differentiation as falling short of international standards for the protection of religious freedom.[2]

The ruling Communist Party of China officially espouses state atheism,[3] and has conducted antireligious campaigns to this end.[4] China's five officially sanctioned religious organizations are the Buddhist Association of China, Chinese Taoist Association, Islamic Association of China, Three-Self Patriotic Movement and Chinese Patriotic Catholic Association.


Look a bit harder at the Three-Self Patriotic Movement

Wiki writes:

When the TSPM was established in 1954, it promoted a three-self strategy in order to remove foreign influences from the Chinese churches and to assure the government that the churches would be patriotic to the newly established People's Republic of China.[12] Other Protestant leaders included Jia Yuming, Marcus Cheng,[13] and Yang Shaotang.[14]

When "The Christian Manifesto" was published in the People's Daily in 1954, it pledged the support of Christians for anti-imperialism, anti-feudalism, and anti-bureaucratic capitalism efforts.[15] The movement, in the eyes of critics, allowed the government to infiltrate, subvert, and control much of organized Christianity.[16] (...)From 1966 to 1976 during the Cultural Revolution, the expression of religious life in China was effectively banned, including the TSPM. The growth of the Chinese house church movement during this period was a result of all Chinese Christian worship being driven underground for fear of persecution.[17] In 1979 the government officially restored the TSPM after thirteen years of non-existence,[16] and in 1980 the CCC was formed. However, many Christians in China were skeptical of the government's intention in re-instituting the TSPM, partly because those entrusted in its local administration were often ones who had participated in repressive actions in the past.[18][19][20]

The TSPM is not a denomination, and denominational distinctions do not exist within the organization. Pastors are trained at one of thirteen officially sanctioned seminaries.[16] Current theological emphasis is on "a protection and promotion of the five basic tenets of Christian faith — the Trinity, Christ being both human and God, the Virgin Birth, Death and Resurrection and the Second Coming."[21] The primary role of the TSPM was then delegated to liaison with the Government whereas the CCC serves as an ecclesial organisation focusing on the internal management and affairs of the Church.[22][23]

However, the TSPM is often charged with being an instrument for the secular Chinese government, which persecutes Christians outside of it. Independent congregation are known as house churches.[24] The attempt to bring house church Christians into the fold of "registered" meeting places has met with mixed results.[16] Since the ascension of Xi Jinping the Chinese Government has cracked down on house churches and oppressed their members, actions which the TSPM has supported.[25]

In March 2019 Xu Xiaohong, the chairman of the National Three-Self Patriotic Movement Committee, gave a speech about the use of Christianity by western powers to destabilize China and the CCP. In addition he stated that "Anti-China forces in the West are attempting to continue to influence the social stability of our country through Christianity, and even subvert the political power of our country,” while speaking at the Chinese People's Political Consultative Conference.[26] He also called for continued state action against independent Christians stating “For individual black sheep who, under the banner of Christianity, participate in subverting national security, we firmly support the country to bring them to justice.”[25]

Its all a sham. The government controls the church. Considering that there are 1.3 billion Chinese and at best 200 million Christians, less than half who actually know God, the charge that China has no real religious freedom is successfully presented.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 28 by jar, posted 09-15-2020 1:40 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 31 by jar, posted 09-15-2020 3:05 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
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