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Author Topic:   Be It Stealth or Cyber: We Are In A War With China
jar
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Posts: 33321
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


(2)
Message 31 of 54 (882220)
09-15-2020 3:05 PM
Reply to: Message 30 by Phat
09-15-2020 2:33 PM


Re: Old News and learn the basics Phat
Phat writes:

The government controls the church. Considering that there are 1.3 billion Chinese and at best 200 million Christians, less than half who actually know God, the charge that China has no real religious freedom is successfully presented.

LOL

Again, you assert that there are any Christians that know God, yet no one has ever offered any evidence or even reasoned argument that that is fact.

Are there Christian or Jewish churches in China?

If there is even one such entity then religious freedom has been established.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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Replies to this message:
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AZPaul3
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Posts: 5795
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.9


(6)
Message 32 of 54 (882223)
09-15-2020 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Trump won
09-15-2020 2:16 PM


china must be stopped

Reality check. Not going to happen.

The chinese are too integral to the world's function.

They WILL become more economically, militarily, politically involved in world affairs and, like America in the later half of the 20th century, will become a world leader in ALL facets of world affairs. They WILL have their say.

As usual with catholics, they want blood and suffering. The right needs a new boogeyman and china fits the emotional bill. They want a holy patriotic war. The reich-wing will provide the bombs. You catholics will hype up the gore.

The only thing we can do (should do, must do) is work with them and, together, influence the rest of the world into better conditions.

It is written into the future. The new guys are grown up and are walking the world stage. It is time we embrace the reality and act as the adult in the room, not the king.


Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5795
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 33 of 54 (882224)
09-15-2020 4:13 PM
Reply to: Message 31 by jar
09-15-2020 3:05 PM


Re: Old News and learn the basics Phat
If there is even one such entity then religious freedom has been established.

If a black man is elected president then racial equality has been established and racism in America is no more.


Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 31 by jar, posted 09-15-2020 3:05 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 34 by jar, posted 09-15-2020 4:52 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33321
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 34 of 54 (882226)
09-15-2020 4:52 PM
Reply to: Message 33 by AZPaul3
09-15-2020 4:13 PM


Re: Old News and learn the basics Phat
Yes, as far a legality goes.

But changing people is even harder than changing governments.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 33 by AZPaul3, posted 09-15-2020 4:13 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
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dwise1
Member
Posts: 4542
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 35 of 54 (882227)
09-15-2020 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by Phat
09-15-2020 12:33 PM


Re: Old News and learn the basics Phat
They insist that the State should be given homage before any God.

Just like Trump.

I recently heard someone explain the difference between a religion and a cult. In a religion, your god died for you. In a cult, you are expected to die for your god.

Welcome to Cult 45.


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AZPaul3
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Posts: 5795
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 36 of 54 (882228)
09-15-2020 6:18 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by jar
09-15-2020 4:52 PM


Re: Old News and learn the basics Phat
The Chinese constitution (1982) grants religious freedom. That means nothing.

What the government practices is religious tolerance, tolerance of those religious groups that do not disrupt, challenge or detract from the absolute control of the society by the party. Regardless of the law the reality is that there is no religious freedom in china. You have no right to religious activity. Religious activity is tolerated at the pleasure of the party.

In the USofA we have declared racial equality officially legally since 1964. As you say, changing people is even harder than changing governments. In reality the USofA does not have racial equality. We got us a long way to go.

Establishing a church in china DOES NOT establish religious freedom in china. Electing a black president in the USofA DOES NOT establish racial equality here.

Sorry, jar, holding to some official legal tenet means nothing while the reality is so starkly opposite.

So, no. There is no freedom of religion in china regardless how many churches may exist. No, there is no racial equality in the USofA regardless of how many blacks we elect.


Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by jar, posted 09-15-2020 4:52 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 39 by jar, posted 09-15-2020 6:39 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
dwise1
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Posts: 4542
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 37 of 54 (882229)
09-15-2020 6:20 PM
Reply to: Message 29 by Trump won
09-15-2020 2:16 PM


i have yet to see evidence that trump's detainment camps are remotely similar to the work and genocide camps in china where they hold uyghur muslims.

Trump is too moronic to do anything with German or Chinese efficiency (plus China, basically being capitalism on steroids, cashes in on the international market for transplant organs).

Side note FWIW: Er ist Wieder Da (one English translation: "Look Who's Back"). Hitler mysteriously returns to modern-day Berlin and stages a come-back. The book came out in 2014 and the movie in 2015, so it was before our 2016 presidential campaign, but the movie came to Netflix (no longer there) after that campaign. Hitler's first speech on German TV included his telling the audience that Germany was hurtling towards a chasm and only he could see that and only he could save them from that catastrophe. Sound familiar? Watching that movie, I kept seeing parallel after parallel between what Hitler was saying (obviously researched from his actual speeches) and what Trump actually says.

Remember, Trump is too stupid to come up with anything original. So of course he copied from Hitler who famously said of himself, "Gott! Ich konnte aber reden!" ("OMG, but I could speak!"). Unfortunately for Trump, Hitler was a far better speaker.

Rather, for a concentration camp comparison look to the British concentration camps in South Africa. During the Boer War, while the men of the Dutch settlers (AKA Afrikaans) were in the countryside fighting against the British, their women and children were rounded up and put into concentration camps. Where 26,000 women and children died, mainly from malnutrition and dysentary, but thousands died from a measles epidemic that swept through the camps.

So just how is that different from our own concentration camps under Trump?

china must be stopped

And what about Russia?

Whatever-your-name-is-this-minute (you change your skin so often, are you the talking snake from the Bible? At any rate, we all know to never take seriously what you with your forked tongue say), you are using the same Russian disinformation being fed to GOP senators and to Trump (and then to Faux Noise and from there back to Trump).

Russia did indeed affect our 2016 election to get their orange-haired boy, Trump, into office to do Putin's bidding (which we have seen him do repeatedly). Russia is doing that yet again right now, but Trump is doing all he can to keep the US from defending itself from Russia (which is basically Trump's only chance for reelection which he desperately needs to avoid being indicted and prosecuted for his many crimes) and instead deflecting our attention to China (yes, you miserable little lemming, you let your attention be distracted by that bright shiny decoy).

China, the land of Sun Tzu and his Art of War, is playing the long game. Gathering intelligence but also tons of technology and databases along with the new tech to work with those tons of data.

OTOH, we have Russia who uses cyber warfare as a branch of their other forms of warfare. As they did against Ukraine by taking down their power grid, twice, and interfering with their elections. China's actions, while troublesome, do not pose the vastly greater immediate threat of Russia's actions. Yet you are strangely silent about Russia. Or rather not so strangely, since you have drunk the Kool-Aid of Trump's Cult 45.

and he sings to the highest bidder

Which describes Trump to a T.

 
Have you ever heard of that traitor congressman, Devin Nevins? He comes from a rural district in California where the only pressing political issue is water rights. As long as he can support his constituents over water rights, he is free to betray America and support Russia to his heart's content.

You are like Nevins' constituents. You have one issue and one issue only: abortion. As long as a politician tells you that they support that one burning issue for you, you will defend them to the death despite all the other anti-American BS they pull.

Didn't anyone ever tell you how Satan works? He finds out that one thing that you hold so dear above all other things, promises you that one thing, and from that point on he owns your soul!

Congrats! You have sold your soul to Satan!


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 Message 29 by Trump won, posted 09-15-2020 2:16 PM Trump won has responded

Replies to this message:
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Taq
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Posts: 8482
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 4.3


(3)
Message 38 of 54 (882230)
09-15-2020 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 32 by AZPaul3
09-15-2020 4:09 PM


AZPaul3 writes:

Reality check. Not going to happen.

The chinese are too integral to the world's function.

They WILL become more economically, militarily, politically involved in world affairs and, like America in the later half of the 20th century, will become a world leader in ALL facets of world affairs. They WILL have their say.

If history is any guide, there is a strong correlation between prosperity and liberalism. The richer China becomes the stronger they will lean towards western liberalism. People who have wealth have something to lose, and that makes them less willing to risk that wealth in conflicts. People also need to realize that wealth is not a zero sum game.

I am also getting tired of making everything into a war. We have the war on drugs, war on poverty, and the war on Christmas. All three are still around and doing fine, and always will be around. The word "war" is nearly meaningless, ranking just above complete apathy.


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 Message 32 by AZPaul3, posted 09-15-2020 4:09 PM AZPaul3 has not yet responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33321
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


(1)
Message 39 of 54 (882232)
09-15-2020 6:39 PM
Reply to: Message 36 by AZPaul3
09-15-2020 6:18 PM


Re: Old News and learn the basics Phat
AZPaul3 writes:

So, no. There is no freedom of religion in china regardless how many churches may exist. No, there is no racial equality in the USofA regardless of how many blacks we elect.

The issue in the US is that the people living in the US are intolerant. The laws are there. It is "us" not the "US" that are racial bigots. The laws (until Trump) were definitely created to move people towards racial equality but WE and American Citizens have decided to flaunt the laws and practice racial and sexual and demographic and economic inequality.

It's not the "US" it is the "us".

Until Trump we were making progress but TRUMPism is, I must admit, instilling legal governmental racial, sexual, demographic and economic inequality.


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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Replies to this message:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5795
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 40 of 54 (882233)
09-15-2020 7:20 PM
Reply to: Message 39 by jar
09-15-2020 6:39 PM


Re: Old News and learn the basics Phat
It's not the "US" it is the "us".

No, jar. We IS the USofA. The reality of our mark in this world is not the grand platitudes we write into our laws but what we actually do to people.

Yes, it is us, the USofA, that is racist and withholds equality from our citizens. Yeah, we have a lot of good things going for us on the rights and freedom side of reality but race relations is not one of them.


Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 39 by jar, posted 09-15-2020 6:39 PM jar has not yet responded

  
Trump won 
Suspended Member (Idle past 92 days)
Posts: 1928
Joined: 01-12-2004


Message 41 of 54 (882236)
09-15-2020 8:49 PM
Reply to: Message 37 by dwise1
09-15-2020 6:20 PM


didn't know you could take cnn and pedo joe straight to the vein...

Edited by Christ crucified?, : No reason given.


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Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3933
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 42 of 54 (882238)
09-15-2020 11:50 PM
Reply to: Message 41 by Trump won
09-15-2020 8:49 PM


Grow up
You're on the razors edge of a permanent suspension.

Adminnemooseus

ps to all:

Take any discussion of this message to General Discussion Of Moderation Procedures (aka 'The Whine List')

Added by edit: Message 41 (the version I saw before posting message 42) was -

Ur not annoying, insipid, aggressive, or much of anything. Just flat out dumb. I didn't know you
Could take CNN straight to the vein. Complete dumbass. Dumb, dumb, dumb. Mentally on the level with pedo Joe

Edited by Adminnemooseus, : Added by edit.


Or something like that©.

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Hyroglyphx
Inactive Member


(1)
Message 43 of 54 (882353)
09-18-2020 5:28 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by Pressie
09-15-2020 10:50 AM


As a foreigner to both the US and China, I think that the US system is not really better than the Chinese governmental system.
As an example, in North Carolina, a state I used to visit quite often, the Democratic Party got a substantially more votes in 2018 than the Republicans. Yet, the Republicans dominate the State legislature with many more seats. Gerrymandering and all that.

That's the opposite of how democracy is supposed to work.

So, the US and Chinese systems are not too different.

At least the Chinese are honest. That can't be said about the American system.

They are completely different in just about every conceivable way. Xi has made sure that there aren't any elections concerning him being president for life, so its kind of funny that you act like there is parity when there is none. Xi is a dictator and will never leave office until his death.

Secondly, the reason the electoral college was created was precisely instituted to protect against corruption. We here in America know that a Direct Democracy is a mobocracy; its two wolves and a lamb voting over what will be for dinner.


"Reason obeys itself; and ignorance submits to whatever is dictated to it" -- Thomas Paine

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Phat
Member
Posts: 15220
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 44 of 54 (884324)
02-11-2021 6:45 AM
Reply to: Message 2 by jar
09-14-2020 9:40 AM


Globalism: An Unrealistic Destiny.
Often, Liberals are painted as altruistic globalists who do not see a problem with forming a consensus with other sysstems of government and who believe that world peace is a worthwhile goal even at the expense of the democracy that birthed them. As a religious guy, I see much of the problem coming from some simple errors in your world views. You think that God is nothing more than a character in a book and that humans are fully responsible for forging their destinies. This is an error in that you then believe that humans MUST learn how to get along at any cost--even if that cost involves some of the freedoms that our systems of government have fought over and won for us at great cost Lets take China as one example of a system of government that, as Joe Biden puts it about their Chairman Xi Jinping.
Biden writes:

“He’s very bright. He’s very tough. He doesn’t have – and I don’t mean this as a criticism, just the reality – he doesn’t have a democratic ‘small d’ bone in his body.”

Democracy is facing a challenge from this governing model.
News.com.au writes:

China is winning. Democracies are falling. Authoritarian ‘strong men’ are on the rise.

“The theory of democracy as presented by Abraham Lincoln is on life support in the intensive care unit. People’s autocracy, as a governing model, will continue to emerge in many other nations in the days to come,” crows Beijing’s state-controlled media.

Ethiopia, Haiti, Hong Kong, Malaysia, Myanmar, Russia, the United States. All are facing dramatic challenges to their democracies.

But they’re just the tip of a teetering iceberg.

International democracy think-tank Freedom House warns that internal – and foreign – forces are actively destabilising some 79 governments worldwide.



We are in an era of “authoritarian resurgence” and “global democratic downturn”, warns the US-based National Endowment for Democracy (NED).

It’s a battle for hearts and minds.

“The leading authoritarians are challenging democracy at the level of ideas, principles, and standards, but only one side seems to be seriously competing in the contest,” its Democratic Responses to Expanding Authoritarian Influence report reads.

And they’re playing dirty.

I realize that war is not a good option, but when an adversary keeps shoving into your space and territory what other option do we have? Consensus will weaken our Democratic ideals.

jar writes:

The issue is that too many in the US are simply willfully stupid.

Thinking we are at war with China is particularly stupid!

Well if its not a war against our way of life and ideals that we have fought for in many wars and for many years, what is it then? Are we simply supposed to be spineless wimps like Neville Chamberlain was with Germany and attempt to let the autocrats win?

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


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 Message 2 by jar, posted 09-14-2020 9:40 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 33321
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 2.9


Message 45 of 54 (884325)
02-11-2021 7:25 AM
Reply to: Message 44 by Phat
02-11-2021 6:45 AM


Re: Globalism: An Unrealistic Destiny.
The other option is to acknowledge that reality exists.

The idea of a war with China is simply stupidity writ large and as utterly stupid as the war on drugs.

Phat writes:

You think that God is nothing more than a character in a book and that humans are fully responsible for forging their destinies.

There you go lying yet again. Humans are responsible for their behavior, their actions but not totally responsible for their their destinies. Reality and other things will also influence their destiny.

And yet again, you lie about my position relative to GOD. My position is that every god or God that humans have ever described is solely the product of human imagination and it is a conclusion based on all the evidence INCLUDING the Bible.

Phat writes:

Well if its not a war against our way of life and ideals that we have fought for in many wars and for many years, what is it then? Are we simply supposed to be spineless wimps like Neville Chamberlain was with Germany and attempt to let the autocrats win?

As the very quote you included says "...only one side is competing."

Democracy needs to start competing.

China is winning by providing foreign aid, building infrastructure, creating jobs and industry, exporting health care all over the world. China now experiences more foreign investment, other nations coming to China to invest there than the rather than in the US.

The standard of living and quality of life for the average "middle class" Chinese citizen is rising faster than the US "Middle class" citizen.

China has followed Science rather than belief and prospered.

The US Christian Cult of ********* continues to place SOURCE over content, BELIEF over evidence and DESIRE above reality and is suffering.

The answer is simple Phat. Follow Evidence, Science & Reality and throw god & God away and we too will prosper.


My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
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