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Author Topic:   Finding God In The Waves
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8203
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 8 of 105 (882502)
09-26-2020 12:16 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Phat
09-26-2020 10:53 AM


Re: Leaarning From Others
Oh great, a mystic. “People will believe anything”

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Phat, posted 09-26-2020 10:53 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8203
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.7


(3)
Message 16 of 105 (882520)
09-27-2020 2:48 AM
Reply to: Message 15 by Phat
09-27-2020 2:05 AM


Re: First Of All
Phat writes:

… by and large I have confidence that I could equal or best your scores yet simply because I choose to be a believer I am an outcast.

I doubt anybody thinks you're stupid Phat, but I refer you to the broken thinking skills thread. You are not applying you're intelligence in an intelligent way.

Like most fundies, you can't think critically about religion mostly because of highly motivated thinking, but also because it seems that you - like almost every fundie I've ever met - have little education or formal training in how to do it.

quote:
Motivated reasoning is a phenomenon studied in cognitive science and social psychology that uses emotionally-biased reasoning to produce justifications or make decisions that are most desired rather than those that accurately reflect the evidence, while still reducing cognitive dissonance. In other words, motivated reasoning is the "tendency to find arguments in favor of conclusions we want to believe to be stronger than arguments for conclusions we do not want to believe".[1] It can lead to forming and clinging to false beliefs despite substantial evidence to the contrary. The desired outcome acts as a filter that affects evaluation of scientific evidence and of other people.

Motivated reasoning is similar to confirmation bias, where evidence that confirms a belief (which might be a logical belief, rather than an emotional one) is either sought after more or given more credibility than evidence that disconfirms a belief. It stands in contrast to critical thinking where beliefs are approached in a skeptical and unbiased fashion.


Motivated reasoning - Wikipedia


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 15 by Phat, posted 09-27-2020 2:05 AM Phat has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by jar, posted 09-27-2020 7:22 AM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8203
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 18 of 105 (882522)
09-27-2020 7:54 AM
Reply to: Message 17 by jar
09-27-2020 7:22 AM


Re: First Of All
jar writes:

It's not that they have not been educated on how to think but rather they are educated to avoid thinking.

Sure, first they're indoctrinated - “give me a boy before the age of seven etc” - then they're told to believe not critically evaluate.

It's not that they don't think, god knows they do enormous amount of thinking, poor old Phat here never stops. It's just that the thinking is all about imagination. How many angels on a pinhead stuff. How can I make this primitive book make sense to me today?

Even when they do apply thinking tools they corrupt them so that the answers meet their expectations, discarding all non-confirming data.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 17 by jar, posted 09-27-2020 7:22 AM jar has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 19 by Phat, posted 09-27-2020 8:18 AM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8203
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 21 of 105 (882525)
09-27-2020 8:34 AM
Reply to: Message 19 by Phat
09-27-2020 8:18 AM


Re: The EvC Fundamentalist's Peanut Gallery
Phat writes:

I dont think you understand. You claim that you were once a believer, after all....so what was it that you once "believed in"? Its NOT The Book.

It's only the book. Without the NT book you'd be Jewish.

Its Jesus Christ. Jesus is as timely as todays news.

Only to a few. For others it's some other daydream. For me it's nothing.

He is not some ancient character limited to the Book.

Er, he is. Otherwise you'd be able to produce the guy.

And I know you will patiently attempt to show me through logic, reason, and apparent reality that He is (and was) but I swear that you New Atheists can be every bit as fundamentalist, dogmatic, and stubborn as any "believer" ever was.

I was an atheist for decades before the term new atheist was invented, but that aside, I'm sure we can be - it's just that our positions can be backed by evidence and are grounded in reality.

Im about done arguing around this place. Perhaps you all were meant to forevermore be unbelievers. Perhaps youall joined jars little church of Logic, Reason, & Reality and kept your brains in full functional mode, partaking of Communion only with evidence and throwing any God characters whom interacted with you on a daily basis firmly and finally away.

This is just nonsense. 'In communion with evidence”? You're so stuck in your own religious bubble that you can't even imagine how the non-religous think and feel; you can't apply religious language to how we think, it doesn't work.

But lets get to the book, shall we?

No thanks

Btw, remember saying this? “ Its NOT The Book.”


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 19 by Phat, posted 09-27-2020 8:18 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 23 by Phat, posted 09-27-2020 3:47 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8203
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 36 of 105 (882562)
09-28-2020 4:35 PM
Reply to: Message 34 by FLRW
09-28-2020 4:08 PM


Re: Leaarning From Others
Oh, they're all writing books. This one did it. Ffs.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 34 by FLRW, posted 09-28-2020 4:08 PM FLRW has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 37 by Phat, posted 09-29-2020 11:41 AM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8203
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 38 of 105 (882576)
09-29-2020 11:54 AM
Reply to: Message 37 by Phat
09-29-2020 11:41 AM


Re: Learning From Others
Phat writes:

For example, imagine that I said that it is obvious, but not forcefully so, that you will need your passport to fly internationally. Now, notice carefully that you have to learn this bit of information. It is certainly not like a forcefully obvious brick wall that you cannot avoid. But it would still perhaps be a case of a failure to grasp the obvious if you arrived at the airport with your bags packed but without your passport. It's this second sense (of non-forceful obviousness or avoidable clarity) that the case for God can be confidently approached.

This is a fabulous example of utter shite, meaningless drivel, dressed up as mystical wisdom.

Have you ever thought about writing one?(a book)

I have, or rather a chapter in a book; an academic book.It was a very painful and long-winded exercise. By the time it was published it was already out of date.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 37 by Phat, posted 09-29-2020 11:41 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8203
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 44 of 105 (882587)
09-29-2020 4:41 PM
Reply to: Message 43 by Astrophile
09-29-2020 4:34 PM


Re: Leaarning From Others
Astrophile writes:

Thank-you; that tells me what I need to know.

Are you sure? He's written a book you know.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 43 by Astrophile, posted 09-29-2020 4:34 PM Astrophile has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 46 by Astrophile, posted 09-29-2020 4:44 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8203
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 97 of 105 (883315)
11-27-2020 8:29 AM
Reply to: Message 96 by Phat
11-27-2020 7:14 AM


Re: How Can One PROVE The Unexplainable?
Phat writes:

How would one go about explaining (un)explainable events?

You investigate them. If the answer is not immediately obvious, you say that you don't know and carry on investigating. What you don't do is claim godidit and abandon real explanations.

The majority of what religionists claim as inexplicable events have perfectly natural explanations. The rest are simply delusions.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 96 by Phat, posted 11-27-2020 7:14 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8203
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 102 of 105 (883324)
11-28-2020 3:04 AM
Reply to: Message 101 by Phat
11-28-2020 12:25 AM


Re: How Can One PROVE The Unexplainable?
Phat writes:

Why is it unreasonable to assume that One God is likely? Why is it unreasonable to think that someone...some group....has it nearly right? Why cant that just happen to be the One we worship? Why do you treat the idea like a chance?

Because the only reason you believe what you believe is because you were born to a culture and at a time that has that belief.

That is pure chance.

Born anytime before AD30 and you're in hell. Born anywhere where a different belief is prevalent and you're going to hell. Born to parents of a different belief and it's highly probable that you're going to hell.

For a gambling man Phat, the odds are against you.

And, of course, no loving god would behave in that random and cruel way.

It's just your crazy fundie mind.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 101 by Phat, posted 11-28-2020 12:25 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 103 by Phat, posted 11-28-2020 5:46 AM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8203
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 104 of 105 (883326)
11-28-2020 6:34 AM
Reply to: Message 103 by Phat
11-28-2020 5:46 AM


Re: How Can One PROVE The Unexplainable?
Phat writes:

It is indeed food for thought for me.

I've been making that argument with you for years. Literally. The trouble is, if we're both still here next year I'll make it again and you hear it again for the first time.

Like all the others, they just wash straight off.

You're groundhog day.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 103 by Phat, posted 11-28-2020 5:46 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
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