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Author Topic:   Charlie Hebdo murder(s)
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8095
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


(2)
Message 1 of 20 (882804)
10-17-2020 3:53 AM


Yesterday afternoon a history teacher was murdered - decapitated with a kitchen knife - by a Muslim maniac. His 'crime' was to teach part of the French national curriculum about freedom of speech using the Charlie Hedbo cartoons showing images of Mohammed that caused the mass shootings a few years ago as an example.

Muslims in the class were warned in advanced and told that they could leave if they had a religious objection. All but one did. That one went home and told his parents. And then this happened.

I find it hard to maintain a liberal attitude throughout all this. I have thoughts that I would regard as racist in others. Somehow we've allowed these primitive, alien and evil beliefs to exist inside 'our' own culture and been frightened to voice our opposition to them, allowing 'diversity' to prosper. It's sickening and it threatens our democracies by corrupting our view of difference and tolerance of others. We mustn't allow this.

Terror inquiry after teacher beheaded near Paris


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by AZPaul3, posted 10-17-2020 10:14 PM Tangle has responded
 Message 5 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-18-2020 5:28 AM Tangle has not yet responded
 Message 14 by Taq, posted 10-22-2020 6:16 PM Tangle has responded
 Message 18 by Sarah Bellum, posted 10-25-2020 10:35 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8095
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 4 of 20 (882820)
10-18-2020 4:11 AM
Reply to: Message 3 by AZPaul3
10-17-2020 10:14 PM


AZP writes:

Yeah! And they're so different, too.

There's nothing wrong with different so long as it's not the kind of different that thinks it's ok - even required - to murder people.

But in this case just WHO is trying to excuse this crap as a prospering of diversity? Or is it the community that spawns the extremists that is being objected to?

It's the West's culture of tolerance of extreme difference that has allowed a communities of difference to grow inside it unchallenged and protected. There's been a fear in our institutions to confront really obnoxious practices imported from less developed societies that allowed some of those practices to continue here. Honour killings, repression of women, white girl rape, female circumcision, Shariah law, illegal religious schools. We really should have not turned a blind eye to practices that we would normally abhor just because they're 'cultural'.

Now all that could sound like a racist rant but it doesn't come from that place. Over the last 20 years or so I think we're beginning to understand that we can't let septic differences grow and the decent majorities within those cultures may be - may be - turning against them too but some of these beliefs are deeply ingrained.

In the latest Charley Hebdo killing all but one of the Muslims in the class being taught about free speech left the class because of their religious objections to it. The one that stayed went home, told her parents and her parents tweeted their outrage leading to a minor twitter storm amongst other Muslims and then the avenging angel arrives with his kitchen knife to put things right for God. All that is really difficult to accept. Not just the murder but the general outrage within the Muslim community against a fundamental facet of the host culture.

If whole communities disagree with the fundamental founding beliefs of the country they wish to live in, how can they exist comfortably within it? I used to believe in multiculturalism, but that was before it became clear what it actually really meant.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by AZPaul3, posted 10-17-2020 10:14 PM AZPaul3 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by Phat, posted 10-18-2020 1:43 PM Tangle has not yet responded
 Message 9 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-18-2020 4:00 PM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8095
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 10 of 20 (882828)
10-18-2020 4:09 PM
Reply to: Message 9 by Hyroglyphx
10-18-2020 4:00 PM


Hyro writes:

Conform or leave. End of discussion.

The glaring problem of course is that many are UK or US (etc) nationals having been born here or become citizens. They can't be sent home because they are home and they can't be forced to leave.

Edited by Tangle, : No reason given.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-18-2020 4:00 PM Hyroglyphx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-18-2020 4:26 PM Tangle has responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8095
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


(1)
Message 12 of 20 (882830)
10-18-2020 4:32 PM
Reply to: Message 11 by Hyroglyphx
10-18-2020 4:26 PM


Re: The Crusades 2.0
Hyro writes:

... then expect heavy sentencing

If they break a law, they should be treated the same as anyone.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by Hyroglyphx, posted 10-18-2020 4:26 PM Hyroglyphx has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8095
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 16 of 20 (882876)
10-22-2020 6:52 PM
Reply to: Message 14 by Taq
10-22-2020 6:16 PM


Taq writes:

It is worth remembering that Islam is a religion, not a race.

Oh, sure I'm aware of the intellectual difference, but my feeling about the belief system that allows, encourages, or turns a blind eye to the activities of delusional murderers within it are not rational. But they are real. Whatever name you give to that feeling, I have it and it's definitely an 'ism'.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 14 by Taq, posted 10-22-2020 6:16 PM Taq has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 17 by Taq, posted 10-23-2020 12:01 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
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