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Author Topic:   2020 Election early voting and eventually results
PaulK
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Posts: 16631
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 166 of 186 (883123)
11-07-2020 12:54 PM
Reply to: Message 165 by vimesey
11-07-2020 12:48 PM


It’s hard to build bridges with people who actively hate you.

Trump is going to continue to raise bogus lawsuits to try to steal the election and plenty of his supporters back the effort. Rudy Giuliani announced a major lawsuit in Philadelphia, a little while ago.

The Republican Party should change their name, since they)re now openly trying to destroy the Republic.


This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 33019
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 167 of 186 (883124)
11-07-2020 1:10 PM


Trump is still President and will remain President until the Inauguration. BUT while he can still issue blanket pardons for any and all Federal Crimes he or any of his Crime Family have committed he has no pardon power for State or International charges. I will imagine that Every State, Every county, Every city, Every country are going to be subpoenaing the books for all Trump Inc dealings.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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Tangle
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Posts: 7993
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


(2)
Message 168 of 186 (883125)
11-07-2020 1:44 PM



Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14741
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 169 of 186 (883126)
11-07-2020 2:11 PM
Reply to: Message 166 by PaulK
11-07-2020 12:54 PM


Temper Trumptums
I dont think he can do too much damage unless he starts a war.

The only thing im bummed about is how all of the Christian Prophets were wrong. But I called that even before election day. Maybe I can take their place.

And I suppose in a way I'm glad that they were wrong too, because it shows me that God is exposing the fakery in His so-called church.

The other thing that bums me is from my own prediction. The economy will implode, absorbing the whole hit from COVID 19 and my hours will likely get cut. We may even be in for a major Depression. Lets wait and see how Biden handles the US Economy though. Hopefully I wont have to pay too many more taxes and can get a stimulus check to pay down my bills.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 166 by PaulK, posted 11-07-2020 12:54 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
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PaulK
Member
Posts: 16631
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 3.1


(4)
Message 170 of 186 (883127)
11-07-2020 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by Phat
11-07-2020 2:11 PM


Re: Temper Trumptums
He can mess up the Covid response even more. He can refuse to sign another stimulus Bill. He can go through with his recent executive order and put even more of his loyalists into the civil service, replacing people who can actually do the job. He can refuse to cooperate with Biden’s Transition Team, and secretly order his people to obstruct them. He can continue to inflame his supporters with his talk of Biden “stealing the vote” - and who knows what trouble that will cause into Biden’s term ?

But the chickens will be coming home to roost on the Covid front, well before Biden takes office. America has seen record numbers of new cases on each of the last three days (including Mark Meadows, Trump’s Chief of Staff). I think that things are going to get bad for the U.S. Over here, Boris may be an incompetent clown, but at least he’s taking action.


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dwise1
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Posts: 4366
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


(3)
Message 171 of 186 (883129)
11-07-2020 2:59 PM
Reply to: Message 167 by jar
11-07-2020 1:10 PM


There are other issues in addition to Trump's upcoming avalanche of pardons only applying to federal crimes and not to state or international charges (according to my understanding of what has been explained by lawyers being interviewed and hosting on progressive talk radio):
  1. Accepting a pardon constitutes admission of guilt. That is supposed to be why Roger Stone didn't want a pardon but rather have his sentence commuted -- I think that had he accepted a pardon that would have killed his chances for appeals.

  2. When you accept a pardon, then you lose your Fifth Amendment rights against self-incrimination in investigations of that crime -- since you cannot be prosecuted, you cannot refuse to answer for fear of prosecution. That means that you can continue to be interrogated about the crime and you must answer all questions put to you about that crime and your co-conspirators (possibly unless that would uncover even more crimes committed by you). Refusal to do so or lying would then be new crimes that you could be charged with.

    Of course, I don't know what the effects of a blanket pardon would be in that scenario. Does it only pardon you for all crimes you had committed prior to the date of that pardon even if uncovered later? Or does it also pardon you from all future crimes? I would assume the former and very highly doubt the latter.

  3. What are the legal limits of a Presidential Pardon? Would a demonstrably (and flagrantly) corrupt pardon stand in court? That's a legal question that has never been tested, so it could very well end up being contested in court.

    The specific scenario that was brought up about this question is where Trump issues blanket pardons including for VP Pence. Then Trump resigns and now-Pres Pence issues Trump a blanket pardon. For two partners-in-crime to commit their crimes and then pardon each other would very clearly be corrupt, making those corrupt pardons. Would that be able to stand in court? And what then of the decision on that by a corruptly packed US Supreme Court?

BTW, on the matter of international charges. I read somewhere that one of the most searched topics on Google has been world court.

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jar
Member
Posts: 33019
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


(2)
Message 172 of 186 (883130)
11-07-2020 3:06 PM


74 days until Ding Dong
The big question I see is still whether or not Trump will stay or simply leave to try to avoid total bankruptcy and likely prison. He's been given notice that he is fired but he is likely not so dumb that he does not realize that he can't pay the 400+ million debt in HIS personal name coming due in January or that the prosecutors in NY State will not continue to pursue back taxes or that any of the TRUMP properties will be viable with the continued redirection of tax dollars that have been propping them up.

My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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dwise1
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Posts: 4366
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 173 of 186 (883131)
11-07-2020 3:16 PM


The Writing is on The Rock
My great-nephew posted this photo of The Rock at Holloman AFB:


  
Phat
Member
Posts: 14741
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 174 of 186 (883133)
11-07-2020 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by jar
11-07-2020 3:06 PM


Re: 74 days until Ding Dong
Wow! He owes 400 million? Did he ever secure loans from Russia? Could that be part of why he was so close to them, his wife being the other reason?

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by jar, posted 11-07-2020 3:06 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
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Percy
Member
Posts: 19880
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 5.2


(1)
Message 175 of 186 (883134)
11-07-2020 4:12 PM


Biden Defeats Trump

Excerpt from The New York Times article Biden Wins Presidency, Ending Four Tumultuous Years Under Trump:

quote:
Mr. Biden’s victory amounted to a repudiation of Mr. Trump by millions of voters exhausted with his divisive conduct and chaotic administration,...Mr. Trump is only the third elected president since World War II to lose re-election, and the first in more than a quarter-century.

Excerpts from The Washington Post article Joe Biden triumphs over Trump:

quote:
“With the campaign over, it’s time to put the anger and the harsh rhetoric behind us and come together as a nation,” Biden said in the statement, in which his campaign referred to him as “President-elect Joe Biden” for the first time. “It’s time for America to unite. And to heal. We are the United States of America. And there’s nothing we can’t do, if we do it together.”
...
Earlier Saturday, Trump falsely claimed to have won the election “by a lot,” despite the reality that he was losing the popular vote by more than 4 million ballots and was at risk of losing in the electoral college by the same 306-232 result that propelled him to the presidency in 2016.

By denying Trump a second term, a country convulsed by health, economic and social crises brought to an end a tumultuous presidency that polarized the nation and was characterized by attacks on undocumented immigrants, political adversaries and, at times, the rule of law.
...
After the voting, Biden had made repeated appearances at which he expressed his confidence in his eventual victory but counseled Americans to be patient as election workers tallied the ballots. He also vowed to be a president for all Americans, not just those who elected him.

“It’s been a long and difficult campaign,” Biden said Wednesday in Wilmington. “But it’s been a more difficult time for our country, a hard time.

“I know how deep and hard the opposing views are in our country,” he added. “But I also know this as well: To make progress, we have to stop treating our opponents as enemies. We are not enemies.”
...
Harris’s ascent to one of the nation’s two highest offices marked a particularly momentous occasion in the history of women’s rights and came a century after the 19th Amendment guaranteed all women the right to vote — and four years after the first female presidential nominee of a major political party lost unexpectedly to Trump.


--Percy


  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5404
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.4


(1)
Message 176 of 186 (883135)
11-07-2020 5:03 PM
Reply to: Message 164 by Tangle
11-07-2020 12:25 PM


So what now, when can you guys sue the Big Orange Git?

The nation and the world are still in danger. The Cheeto is still president until noon Eastern Jan 20.

The new congress will sit on Jan 3 and, if the Senate flips, it can block a lot of Trumpian hate-filled revenge. If not then the present Senate and the next may be willing to just ignore, if not actually aide and abet, in Trump's coming meltdown. As long as its the liberals, the blue states and any country not Israel or Russia, that's getting hurt in Trump's tirade then all's right with the world.

I understand Ol’ Moscow Mitch says he wants to put together an economic relief plan during the rump session by the end of the year. That may give some cover to some republicans trying to hide from the outrage about Trump’s retribution tirade of denial. He will set out to hurt (politically, economically, physically, spiritually, shooting boltz from hiz eyez) not just anyone but everyone he blames for his hurt ego.

He still has all of the executive powers of the president and that includes the military, Justice, Treasury and, and …

If you can not imagine the kinds of personal retribution an organization like the US Government can visit upon its enemies then these next 74 days will be instructive and may very well be deliberately destructive. We know the personality of this psycho. We know the callous disregard he has for anything not-Trump whether people, organizations, cities, countries …

I hate to broach this but the best the people, the country and the world can hope is that there really is a secret cabal of patriots that can be positioned to block the more egregious excesses.

At noon on Jan 20 next, if the republic still stands, if Trump leaves the White House, voluntarily or with help, the most dedicated and powerfully motivated army of lawyers ever assembled in the history of all time and space will descend upon the dishonored and disgraced ex-president. If he hasn't dropped dead from a heart attack due to the stress come February he will be be declaring bankruptcy. It goes down hill for him from there. And he knows it.

Edited by AZPaul3, : spelngs knot gud.


Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
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jar
Member
Posts: 33019
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


(2)
Message 177 of 186 (883136)
11-07-2020 5:29 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by Phat
11-07-2020 3:53 PM


Re: 74 days until Ding Dong
He owes far far more than that Phat. The 400 Million due in January is only the small part he PERSONALLY guaranteed. And yes, he has loans from both Russia and China. And in fact part of the investigations where he has been withholding the data involves his debts to many foreign powers.

Phat the man has been a failure at everything all his life. Why is anyone surprised that he was a failure as President?


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2381
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006


(4)
Message 178 of 186 (883137)
11-07-2020 6:55 PM


Best Fucking Day in 4 Years
Best fucking day in 4 years!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


Replies to this message:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5404
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 4.4


(1)
Message 179 of 186 (883138)
11-07-2020 7:10 PM
Reply to: Message 178 by Tanypteryx
11-07-2020 6:55 PM


Re: Best Fucking Day in 4 Years
Well, I don't know. There was this day about 2 years ago ... that was just really good. But, yeah this comes in a good second.

Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
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dwise1
Member
Posts: 4366
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 180 of 186 (883139)
11-07-2020 11:23 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by Phat
11-07-2020 3:53 PM


Re: 74 days until Ding Dong
Melania is not Russian, but rather is from Slovenia, part of the former Yugoslavia. And besides, she's just one of his possessions, a trophy. It's not as if she would ever actually matter to him. Unless she were to prove disloyal to him personally.

Wow! He owes 400 million? Did he ever secure loans from Russia? Could that be part of why he was so close to them, ...

Yes, he does owe more than $400 million, but to whom is part of what he's been fighting so desperately for years to keep secret. Since Trump's serial bankruptcies and loan defaults had so ruined his credit that US banks wouldn't go near him, Trump has had to look to foreign sources of financing; for example, Deutsche Bank which has a history of laundering money from former-Soviet Union countries including Russia. At this point we should remember one of his sons boasting to a journalist between 2013 and 2015 the huge amounts of money they were getting from Russia. Another source of money has been Turkey, where Trump has multi-million dollar business interests.

Part of my 35 years of military service (6 years active, 29 reserve) was annual general military training (GMT) in security and counter-intelligence (the same GMT that all military members receive). In addition, I held security clearances which required slightly more specific periodic security training and in one civilian job I had the collateral duty of Facility Security Officer (FSO) in which I managed classified as well as employees' security clearances, which included preparing and conducting their annual security training. Those decades of GMTs also included training about avoiding conflict of interest situations. All of that has perhaps made me more aware of security and conflict of interest and corruption issues than most other people.

Part of getting a security clearance is being able to show that you are trustworthy and that you are not a risk. For example, Jared Kushner demonstrated that he is not trustworthy by lying on his security questionnaire (SF 86).

There are a number of issues that can make you a risk, primarily ones that could compromise you and that might give foreign interests (eg, Russia) leverage over, even to the point of being able to blackmail you -- refer to the acronym, MICE, for the four factors that aid in recruitment for espionage ("Money, ideology, coercion / compromise, extortion / ego").

One key factor that would make you a security risk is financial difficulties, especially high debt -- a retired national security veteran who held a very high clearance recounted how he had missed just one mortgage payment and his clearance was suspended until he got that taken care of and could demonstrate that he was not a risk. Simply put, if you owe a lot of money to somebody then they can force you to do almost anything, including betraying your country (something that Trump could easily do without batting an eyelash).

So when we started the investigation into Russian interference in the 2016 election and how much Trump's campaign colluded with them, that ended up getting split into two separately run investigations:

  1. The Mueller investigation into possible criminal activities, including conspiracy.
  2. A counter-intelligence investigation conducted by the FBI to investigate, among other things, Trump's financial ties to Russia.

The FBI investigation was kept secret, as is necessary in a counter-intelligence investigation. Whenever the Mueller team encountered financial information, they would pass it on to the FBI to be passed to that other parallel investigation team. Even after Mueller had issued his report (and Bill Barr immediately lied about it), we all "knew" that the counter-intelligence investigation was still in progress and we awaited its findings.

Well, then a few months ago the New York Times reported that very shortly after that counter-intelligence investigation had started, Rod Rosenstein killed it (Justice Dept. Never Fully Examined Trump’s Ties to Russia, Ex-Officials Say: The former deputy attorney general maneuvered to keep investigators from completing an inquiry into whether the president’s personal and financial links to Russia posed a national security threat.). That vitally needed information about Trump's financial ties with Russia were never investigated and still needs to be!

In addition to Trump's heavy debts to what could only be foreign powers creating a grave national security threat, there's also the issue of his conflicts of interest. Normally, a high ranking official (eg, the President) will divest himself and have his investments sold and the assets transferred into a blind trust. That way, without any knowledge of where his personal interests lie he will be able to make decisions based on national interests and not his own. Trump's refusal to divest himself has created a vast swamp of conflicts of interest. As a result, he has repeatedly acted in his own interests instead of in our national interest.

So Trump's close subservient cooperation with Putin, Erdogan, et alia, can be seen as due to leverage over him because of his debts as well as his conflicts of interest because of his business interests.

 
The thing is that none of this is new! We've know about Trump since long before 2016 and we've observed his scams for years. Including his Trump University swindle which specifically targeted his most loyal followers and his "charity", the Trump Foundation, which he used as his own personal slush fund (and which undoubtedly also served as a conduit for bribe money in the same manner as contributions to his campaign). His use of the 2016 and 2020 campaigns to accept contributions (which bought large contributors government appointments) and funnel money into his own businesses and hence into his own pocket -- that many millions of dollars in his billion-dollar 2020 campaign fund came up missing needs to be investigated. His inaugural fund received about triple the contributions as Obama's fund, but it bought far less bang for those buck, Trump's own businesses got the contracts, and tens of millions of dollars are still missing and unaccounted for (to my knowledge).

In the 2016 campaign, the Wrong was going almost as crazy over Obama going golfing as they did with him once wearing a tan suit, so Trump highlighted that in the 2016 campaign, promising that he would be so busy and unable to get in any golfing. By the end of the second or third year, Trump had already spent more time golfing than Obama ever did in all of his 8 years. That's not the issue. The issue is that every single golfing trip Trump has made has been to one of his own golf resorts -- in contrast, Obama's golf trips would usually be to a military base's course. Every single one of Trump's golf trips funneled taxpayer money into his own businesses and hence into his own pocket. Not only did he charge taxpayers full price for rooms, meals, rentals, etc for his entire Special Service entourage, but he undoubtedly also charge us full price for his own room and meals (we do know that he charged us the full $3 for a glass of water for himself). The figure I recall is about $44,000 per golf trip and a total of about $9 million for the first three years of that nonsense. Now that is practically the textbook definition for corruption.

In addition, he had military flights rerouted so that the aircrews would have to overnight at a Trump resort. When Trump was in Ireland and had a photo op scheduled with the Irish President, Trump wanted it to be a Trump resort and have them rent that resort's three limousines for $1 million to transport them from and back to the airport. The Irish President countered with using an Irish government building, so Trump just had them meet in an airport lounge next to the vending machines. Trump required Pence to stay at a Trump resort near the Irish west coast such that Pence had to commute all the way across the country (such as that is) to Dublin for the official meetings (I wonder if Pence's commute involved any of those million-dollar limousines). All of that, using his office to grant government contracts to his own businesses, is yet again classic textbook corruption.

And Trump selected his own resort, Doral, as the site of the 2020 G-7 meeting. Not only would those world leaders and their entire retinues have to pay Trump for their rooms and meals and drinks, but Doral would have to be renovated to add helo pads, security and other support buildings, etc, at taxpayer cost in the millions. And then after the meeting, Doral would have to be "restored" at taxpayer cost of even more millions of dollars, such that the entire resort would have been renovated entire at government cost, leaving Trump with a far more valuable property at no cost to himself. That would be an example of very flagrant corruption. And isn't Doral the one that has a big problem with bed bug infestations? In this case, Trump backed down when faced with strong bipartisan push-back, but he kept grousing that he couldn't see any reason not to use his own property.

And with the COVID relief that Congress passed, Pelosi insisted on a comprehensive accounting for where all that money was going, but Trump just said, "Nope!", and now there are many millions of dollars that have disappeared. How much of that money found its way into Trump's own pockets?

Throughout his term, Trump has prevented any oversight, any investigation from being done. We have a corps of inspectors general whose job is to ensure that everything the government does is done correctly. And as they have tried to do their jobs, Trump has been firing them left and right, especially when they started getting too close to what he and his cronies are doing.

And on top of all that corruption, everybody and anybody with even the slightest bit of counter-intelligence training could clearly see indications that Trump is a Russian asset -- that doesn't automatically mean that he is, but the probability of all those red flags and klaxons just being false clues is vanishingly small.

Edited by dwise1, : added paragraph at end


This message is a reply to:
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