Understanding through Discussion


Welcome! You are not logged in. [ Login ]
EvC Forum active members: 67 (9030 total)
53 online now:
AZPaul3, dwise1, Phat (AdminPhat), Tanypteryx (4 members, 49 visitors)
Newest Member: BodhitSLAVa
Post Volume: Total: 884,402 Year: 2,048/14,102 Month: 416/624 Week: 137/163 Day: 30/27 Hour: 3/3


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Trump and Trump supporters keep using the Y2K Fallacy, and it is driving me crazy
coffee_addict
Member
Posts: 3637
From: Chicago
Joined: 03-29-2004


(1)
Message 1 of 48 (882932)
10-26-2020 9:35 AM


https://www.evcforum.net/dm.php?control=msg&m=847604#m847561

Did anyone not notice that Trump directly used this fallacy during the debate? He said we were warned that millions could die if we didn't shut down the economy, so we did and look at the result ONLY 200K people died!

I was screaming into the TV THAT'S THE POINT OF THE SHUTDOWN! So that not so many people would die, dumbass.

I see Trump supporters use this fallacy all the time. They complain that we are forced to use masks everywhere even though only a few hundred thousand people have died. THAT'S THE POINT OF THE MASKS! TO KEEP THE NUMBER OF DEATHS LOW!


If you say the word "gullible" slowly, it sounds like oranges. Go ahead and try it.

Replies to this message:
 Message 3 by Phat, posted 10-26-2020 3:11 PM coffee_addict has not yet responded
 Message 5 by Sarah Bellum, posted 10-28-2020 3:23 PM coffee_addict has responded

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33283
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 4.0


Message 2 of 48 (882933)
10-26-2020 9:45 AM


They use it because almost half of the US population has been taught to not think and to disregard reality.

They use it because it works.

Edited by jar, : hit wrong key


My Sister's Website: Rose Hill Studios     My Website: My Website

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15151
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 3 of 48 (882941)
10-26-2020 3:11 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by coffee_addict
10-26-2020 9:35 AM


Is the Trump Card actually the Joker?
Personally I think its basic common sense to require masks...at least in crowded public places such as the grocery store I work in. We place ourselves in moderate risk simply by being around crowds, but we virtually take a bath every day in the hand sanitizer and I personally wear a clean mask every day. I cant afford to come down with COVID 19, as I have both diabetes and sleep apnea.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killosophy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by coffee_addict, posted 10-26-2020 9:35 AM coffee_addict has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 4 by Tangle, posted 10-26-2020 3:19 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8097
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 4 of 48 (882942)
10-26-2020 3:19 PM
Reply to: Message 3 by Phat
10-26-2020 3:11 PM


Re: Is the Trump Card actually the Joker?
Compared to others you're at high risk Phat.

On the hand sanitiser thing, I've taken to wearing disposable gloves, you can douse yourself in the stuff and not get contact dermatitis, but more important, you hands don't get to your face - you don't pick your nose, rub your eyes or wipe your mouth with a plastic glove on.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 3 by Phat, posted 10-26-2020 3:11 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 715
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 5 of 48 (882952)
10-28-2020 3:23 PM
Reply to: Message 1 by coffee_addict
10-26-2020 9:35 AM


It's the boy who cried wolf problem.

So many predictions, from the Y2K panic to all those "Day of Revelation/Rapture is at Hand!" apocalyptics to the Global Warming hyperbole (James Burke's documentary predicted that by now the USA would be unable to feed itself), so many predictions of DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM! have proven undoomly that now when a real disaster strikes (hundreds of thousands dead and no end in sight) people just shrug it off.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1 by coffee_addict, posted 10-26-2020 9:35 AM coffee_addict has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 6 by coffee_addict, posted 10-30-2020 9:32 PM Sarah Bellum has responded
 Message 39 by ramoss, posted 04-22-2021 9:52 AM Sarah Bellum has responded

  
coffee_addict
Member
Posts: 3637
From: Chicago
Joined: 03-29-2004


(3)
Message 6 of 48 (883009)
10-30-2020 9:32 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Sarah Bellum
10-28-2020 3:23 PM


Sarah Bellum writes:

from the Y2K panic to all those

Just FYI, the the panic came mostly from the scifi channel who pushed the nonsense.

It was a real problem. The Y2K bug was a real problem. The problem was resolved before the problem affected our infrastructure.

James Burke's documentary predicted that by now the USA would be unable to feed itself), so many predictions of DOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM!

They were not predictions. They were projections. At no point did anyone claim to be receiving revelations from god. They did their best to project based on the data that they had.

Regarding the food problem, they did not foresee how far genetic engineering of our agriculture science would take us.

People need to understand the difference between projections and prophecy.


If you say the word "gullible" slowly, it sounds like oranges. Go ahead and try it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Sarah Bellum, posted 10-28-2020 3:23 PM Sarah Bellum has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 7 by Sarah Bellum, posted 11-02-2020 3:29 PM coffee_addict has responded

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 715
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 7 of 48 (883050)
11-02-2020 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 6 by coffee_addict
10-30-2020 9:32 PM


All right, have it your way, their projections were wildly inaccurate.

But if they base their calls to action on such projections, they will be less likely to have popular support for the actions they recommend.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 6 by coffee_addict, posted 10-30-2020 9:32 PM coffee_addict has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 8 by AZPaul3, posted 11-02-2020 10:36 PM Sarah Bellum has responded
 Message 9 by coffee_addict, posted 11-20-2020 9:41 PM Sarah Bellum has responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5770
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.9


Message 8 of 48 (883056)
11-02-2020 10:36 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Sarah Bellum
11-02-2020 3:29 PM


they will be less likely to have popular support for the actions they recommend.

Oh, posh popular support. I am not optimistic. Not until people personally feel the effects themselves in ever increasing numbers. Something like taking a rich productive society and reducing through drought its social fabric to the point of civil war. Wait. We have that. Twice. More coming.

Well, they're mostly brown so it's easy to not see it.

Edited by AZPaul3, : No reason given.


Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Sarah Bellum, posted 11-02-2020 3:29 PM Sarah Bellum has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 13 by Sarah Bellum, posted 01-10-2021 9:25 AM AZPaul3 has responded

  
coffee_addict
Member
Posts: 3637
From: Chicago
Joined: 03-29-2004


(1)
Message 9 of 48 (883234)
11-20-2020 9:41 PM
Reply to: Message 7 by Sarah Bellum
11-02-2020 3:29 PM


Sara writes:

All right, have it your way, their projections were wildly inaccurate.
But if they base their calls to action on such projections, they will be less likely to have popular support for the actions they recommend.

Projections based on available data can help us avert disasters.

My previous job was a structural engineer specializing in bridges. They regularly flew me out to various sites to evaluate bridges. There were ones that I found concerning. Wrote my reports. After the DOT confirmed my findings, fundings were allotted for the necessary repairs. Those bridges are still there performing as they should. Because we upkept them and made the necessary repairs based on available data. Would you ever argue that because nothing ever happened to those bridges that my job was not necessary?

I'm not sure what is so hard for you to understand regarding preventive cautions? Do you wash your hands regularly? Do you brush your teeth every morning and every night? If your teeth are not all rotted, are you going to claim that brushing your teeth all these years was a waste of time and effort?


If you say the word "gullible" slowly, it sounds like oranges. Go ahead and try it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 7 by Sarah Bellum, posted 11-02-2020 3:29 PM Sarah Bellum has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 10 by dwise1, posted 11-21-2020 12:01 AM coffee_addict has responded
 Message 14 by Sarah Bellum, posted 01-10-2021 9:29 AM coffee_addict has not yet responded

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 4496
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 6.0


Message 10 of 48 (883235)
11-21-2020 12:01 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by coffee_addict
11-20-2020 9:41 PM


Would you ever argue that because nothing ever happened to those bridges that my job was not necessary?

In a speech by a US Navy admiral who was in charge of port security in the Persian Gulf, he told us that the Army generals would question why he was necessary if nothing ever happened. He kept trying to explain to them that his units being there and doing their jobs was the reason why nothing ever happened.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by coffee_addict, posted 11-20-2020 9:41 PM coffee_addict has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 11 by coffee_addict, posted 11-21-2020 12:58 AM dwise1 has not yet responded

  
coffee_addict
Member
Posts: 3637
From: Chicago
Joined: 03-29-2004


(2)
Message 11 of 48 (883236)
11-21-2020 12:58 AM
Reply to: Message 10 by dwise1
11-21-2020 12:01 AM


Why do I have to brush my teeth at least twice a day if my teeth are just fine and I have no rotting or cavity at all?

Why do I have to keep having flu shot every year if I haven't had the flu for years?

Why do I have to take my car in for an oil change regularly if my car runs just fine?

Why do I have to go to the gym and work out almost every day if my body is relatively fit?

Why did I have to go to school for all those years if I can read and write just fine?

Why do I have to drive carefully all the time if I haven't had an accident for many years? in fact, i can't even remember my last traffic ticket.

EVERYBODY has a regular routine that prevents something from happening. I don't understand why it's so hard for people to understand that it's these preventive measures that make sure nothing happens? I mean, is there some kind of mental block that prevents certain people from understanding the importance of preventive measures and the connection between preventive measures and something NOT happening?

Edited by coffee_addict, : No reason given.


If you say the word "gullible" slowly, it sounds like oranges. Go ahead and try it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 10 by dwise1, posted 11-21-2020 12:01 AM dwise1 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 12 by PaulK, posted 11-21-2020 2:34 AM coffee_addict has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 16775
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 12 of 48 (883237)
11-21-2020 2:34 AM
Reply to: Message 11 by coffee_addict
11-21-2020 12:58 AM


As we have seen here, these people don’t care about the truth. They believe things because they like them - even obvious falsehoods and inventions.

They like to tell themselves they are Patriotic Americans defending democracy, when they are supporting the overthrow of democracy in the name of a corruption and tyranny.

They won’t blame Trump’s court defeats on the fact that the cases are just theatre - not even serious attempts to win. They’ll blame the judges for throwing out worthless cases.

If you want to know how Hitler rose to power, you can see it right there, in America. At least Republican officials in the States are mostly resisting even if almost all in Washington are still opposing democracy.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 11 by coffee_addict, posted 11-21-2020 12:58 AM coffee_addict has not yet responded

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 715
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 13 of 48 (883763)
01-10-2021 9:25 AM
Reply to: Message 8 by AZPaul3
11-02-2020 10:36 PM


I'm actually more optimistic. I think if you tell the truth you might just have a chance of convincing people.

It's happened in the past, you know, that's why we got pure food and drug laws, child labor laws, seat belt laws, civil rights laws etc. etc. etc.

Of course, lying to people can convince them as well. But the results are often . . . . antisocial.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 8 by AZPaul3, posted 11-02-2020 10:36 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 15 by AZPaul3, posted 01-10-2021 10:23 AM Sarah Bellum has responded

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 715
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 14 of 48 (883765)
01-10-2021 9:29 AM
Reply to: Message 9 by coffee_addict
11-20-2020 9:41 PM


Of course if your reports had been inaccurate and the bridges had fallen down because of the resulting maintenance recommendations that would have been a bad thing, no?

Same thing's gonna happen here if their work is shoddy.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 9 by coffee_addict, posted 11-20-2020 9:41 PM coffee_addict has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5770
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.9


(2)
Message 15 of 48 (883766)
01-10-2021 10:23 AM
Reply to: Message 13 by Sarah Bellum
01-10-2021 9:25 AM


that's why we got pure food and drug laws, child labor laws, seat belt laws, civil rights laws etc. etc. etc.

What planet are you from?

The truth, which they have been given in spades, is ignored.

We have those laws because we overcame the restrictive social fascists which still, to this day, ignore, flout and seek to overturn these programs. Note all the efforts by Trump & Co to rescind by executive order establish environmental protections even in the face of the reality of the dangers.

Truth does not matter to a very large segment of our religious and racist society.

We should always give the people the facts and the reasons, but, as shown in the last few days here, truth is not an impediment to stupid.

I am not in the least bit optimistic that enough of this world society is intelligent or motivated enough to deal with the environmental damage we will suffer these next few hundred years.

Just that time line alone is beyond their comprehension or care.

We need to install highly restrictive programs on carbon emissions and other pollution controls. But the level of stupid and greed in our society is too great to establish such despite the truth being glaringly obvious.

You, My dear, and we all, have nothing to be optimistic about. We are too stupid and greedy to deal with the environmental facts, the reality, the truth as we know it, and we, as a species, will suffer greatly because of it.


Factio Republicana delenda est.
I am antifa.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 13 by Sarah Bellum, posted 01-10-2021 9:25 AM Sarah Bellum has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 16 by jar, posted 01-10-2021 10:32 AM AZPaul3 has responded
 Message 22 by Sarah Bellum, posted 01-12-2021 7:22 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2018 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.0 Beta
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2021