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Author Topic:   Trump and Trump supporters keep using the Y2K Fallacy, and it is driving me crazy
ringo
Member
Posts: 19226
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 3.7


(4)
Message 106 of 126 (887439)
08-03-2021 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 104 by Sarah Bellum
08-03-2021 7:49 AM


Sarah Bellum writes:

It's easy to respond to posts without reading them. Just click the "reply" button and let your fingers start typing whatever comes into their little minds. But it's kind of a drag to watch that sort of thing. So I don't come here that often.


I'd say your quite prone to that yourself. It's a drag to be caught doing it, which also may be a factor in you driving by infrequently.

Sarah Bellum writes:

As for "social media", if you're saying the EvC social media site is somehow more "reliable" as a source of information than FaceBook....


You're certainly welcome to show how unreliable EvC is.

As for "social media", you said in Message 91

quote:
If social media is how you keep yourself "informed"....
to which I replied in Message 93
quote:
It isn't.
and I continued,
quote:
When I heard that there was fake news on Facebook, my first reaction was, "There's news on Facebook?"

My second reaction was, "What kind of idiot would get his news from Facebook?"


End of post.

I was referring to Facebook and Facebook only, not EvC.


"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 104 by Sarah Bellum, posted 08-03-2021 7:49 AM Sarah Bellum has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 119 by Sarah Bellum, posted 09-05-2021 11:48 AM ringo has responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20219
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 107 of 126 (887461)
08-04-2021 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Sarah Bellum
07-11-2021 5:19 PM


I wasn't able to trace back to where the disagreement began, so I'll just respond to this:

Sarah Bellum writes:

But those predictions of fusion power bringing electricity too cheap to meter...

I think the general consensus on fusion power has been the same for a long time, often ironically expressed as, "Fusion is the power of the future and always will be." Fusion has its enthusiastic proponents, and the possibility of cheap and clean power continues to fuel the construction of experimental reactors, but the general consensus on fusion as a power source within even our longterm engineering capabilities has been strong skepticism for a long time.

If it were possible to take a one cubic millimeter sample of the sun's core, how would we contain it? That's analogous to the problem fusion scientists are trying to solve.

...don't matter as much as the predictions made in the 1980s the Maldives would be underwater within 30 years or predictions in the 1980s that New York City's West Side Highway would be submerged within 30 years or predictions at the turn of the century that within a few years children in the UK wouldn't know what snow is....

I'll just assume that some actual scientists offered these odd predictions, but they were never the consensus.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-11-2021 5:19 PM Sarah Bellum has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 122 by Sarah Bellum, posted 09-05-2021 12:01 PM Percy has responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2571
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 108 of 126 (887464)
08-04-2021 1:33 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Sarah Bellum
07-11-2021 5:19 PM


Sarah writes:

predictions in the 1980s that New York City's West Side Highway would be submerged within 30 years

Hurricane Sandy

Its storm surge hit New York City on October 29, flooding streets, tunnels and subway lines and cutting power in and around the city.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-11-2021 5:19 PM Sarah Bellum has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 120 by Sarah Bellum, posted 09-05-2021 11:51 AM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

  
glowby
Member
Posts: 75
From: Fox River Grove, IL
Joined: 05-29-2010


Message 109 of 126 (887531)
08-08-2021 5:41 PM
Reply to: Message 91 by Sarah Bellum
07-11-2021 5:19 PM


Made for TV and denier distortions
... predictions in the 1980s that New York City's West Side Highway would be submerged within 30 years ...

The source for this denier trope is an ABC show called "Earth 2100" that aired June 2, 2009. It wasn't a science paper or news report or documentary. It was a dramatization of the worst case scenarios of GW.

It's from a scene describing someone working on sea barriers in New York in 2050. That's still almost 20 years away and not outside of the range of possibilities.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 91 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-11-2021 5:19 PM Sarah Bellum has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 110 by AZPaul3, posted 08-08-2021 8:08 PM glowby has responded
 Message 121 by Sarah Bellum, posted 09-05-2021 11:52 AM glowby has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5984
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 110 of 126 (887532)
08-08-2021 8:08 PM
Reply to: Message 109 by glowby
08-08-2021 5:41 PM


Re: Made for TV and denier distortions
That may be all well and good but it hasn’t happened so the hype was staged to further a political agenda, scare governments into curbing our only real homegrown power sources, coal, oil and gas. Cheap, reliable with an already built infrastructure and enough to keep hitting the bottom line every quarter for decades yet to come.

I know it’s hot in Phoenix today (41oC) but it is also -66oC at Amundsen-Scott Station and last time I checked both are part of this same world, this same globe, so, so much for “global” warming.


Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 109 by glowby, posted 08-08-2021 5:41 PM glowby has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 111 by glowby, posted 08-08-2021 8:57 PM AZPaul3 has not yet responded
 Message 112 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 08-09-2021 1:17 PM AZPaul3 has responded

  
glowby
Member
Posts: 75
From: Fox River Grove, IL
Joined: 05-29-2010


(4)
Message 111 of 126 (887533)
08-08-2021 8:57 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by AZPaul3
08-08-2021 8:08 PM


Re: Made for TV and denier distortions
Yes. The events depicted in that made-for-TV docu-drama haven't happened yet. And neither did that show predict they would happen yet.

If anything, it has been under-hyped. And the purpose of the warnings from the world of SCIENCE was to prevent the disasters we see happening today, as well as the ones we're sure to see in the future. Their agenda was and is preventing economic and human hardships.

It's denial is a political agenda. It's acceptance is about rational thinking and compassion for future generations.

Coal, gas, and oil are not cheap, when you consider the price we're paying and will be paying for the consequences of ignoring their trash for so long, even if you don't take dead people in your accounting.

The temps today here, there, or anywhere are completely irrelevant. We're talking about decades-long trends in climate, not daily weather reports. How do you expect to argue about climate change without event knowing what climate is?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by AZPaul3, posted 08-08-2021 8:08 PM AZPaul3 has not yet responded

  
AnswersInGenitals
Member
Posts: 627
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


(4)
Message 112 of 126 (887544)
08-09-2021 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 110 by AZPaul3
08-08-2021 8:08 PM


Re: Made for TV and denier distortions
AZpaul3 writes:

...it is also -66oC at Amundsen-Scott Station and last time I checked both are part of this same world, this same globe, so, so much for “global” warming.

I just took some chicken out of my freezer to have for dinner. Guess what, it was frozen solid. So much for all this Global Warming nonsense!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 110 by AZPaul3, posted 08-08-2021 8:08 PM AZPaul3 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 113 by AZPaul3, posted 08-09-2021 1:49 PM AnswersInGenitals has responded
 Message 115 by dwise1, posted 08-09-2021 7:16 PM AnswersInGenitals has not yet responded

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 5984
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 113 of 126 (887545)
08-09-2021 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by AnswersInGenitals
08-09-2021 1:17 PM


Re: Made for TV and denier distortions
Hey Genitals, You know you can help slow global warming by leaving your freezer open, right?

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 08-09-2021 1:17 PM AnswersInGenitals has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 114 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 08-09-2021 2:38 PM AZPaul3 has not yet responded

  
AnswersInGenitals
Member
Posts: 627
Joined: 07-20-2006
Member Rating: 4.2


(1)
Message 114 of 126 (887547)
08-09-2021 2:38 PM
Reply to: Message 113 by AZPaul3
08-09-2021 1:49 PM


Re: Made for TV and denier distortions
Done. And it's working, my kitchen is already 10 degrees colder! Your welcome.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 113 by AZPaul3, posted 08-09-2021 1:49 PM AZPaul3 has not yet responded

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 4702
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 115 of 126 (887558)
08-09-2021 7:16 PM
Reply to: Message 112 by AnswersInGenitals
08-09-2021 1:17 PM


Re: Made for TV and denier distortions
Remember that GOP member of Congress (I forget specifically which one or in which chamber) who brought in a snowball from outside to refute all claims of Global Warming once and for all!

I see parallels with creationists' ultimate "got-cha" refutation of evolution that totally disproves it once and for all: "Well if we evolved from monkeys, then why are there still monkeys?"

OK, so if Global Warming is true, then why are there still snowballs? And ice cubes!?!

Try to answer that if you can!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 112 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 08-09-2021 1:17 PM AnswersInGenitals has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 116 by Tanypteryx, posted 08-09-2021 7:25 PM dwise1 has responded

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2571
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.5


Message 116 of 126 (887559)
08-09-2021 7:25 PM
Reply to: Message 115 by dwise1
08-09-2021 7:16 PM


Re: Made for TV and denier distortions
Inhofe from OK. US senator.

Holding up a hamburger proving there is no hunger.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 115 by dwise1, posted 08-09-2021 7:16 PM dwise1 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 117 by dwise1, posted 08-09-2021 7:38 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 4702
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 117 of 126 (887560)
08-09-2021 7:38 PM
Reply to: Message 116 by Tanypteryx
08-09-2021 7:25 PM


Re: Made for TV and denier distortions
I figured it had to have been a senator. They tend to be far more divorced from reality, especially the Republicans.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 116 by Tanypteryx, posted 08-09-2021 7:25 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 748
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 118 of 126 (888121)
09-05-2021 11:45 AM
Reply to: Message 105 by dwise1
08-03-2021 8:33 AM


Well, people can't be reasoned out of ideas they weren't reasoned into in the first place.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 105 by dwise1, posted 08-03-2021 8:33 AM dwise1 has not yet responded

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 748
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 119 of 126 (888122)
09-05-2021 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by ringo
08-03-2021 12:40 PM


With all the endless volume on both FaceBook and EvC I'm sure some, perhaps even a lot of useful information comes through both of these. There's hardly any point in making an artificial distinction, FaceBook bad, EvC good, four legs good, two legs . . .

But all this useful information just gets drowned out by the rest of the noise (that post of yours I'm responding to here is a perfect example!). I suppose in the long run more is better than less. If you have a limited number of "official" outlets that are "fact-checked" (by whom, exactly?) you're bound to get more of a Soviet than a Western outlook on life. So, I guess, Let a Hundred Flowers Bloom . . .

Anyway, good luck with all that.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by ringo, posted 08-03-2021 12:40 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 123 by ringo, posted 09-05-2021 2:32 PM Sarah Bellum has not yet responded

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 748
Joined: 05-04-2019


Message 120 of 126 (888123)
09-05-2021 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 108 by Tanypteryx
08-04-2021 1:33 PM


The prediction involved sea level rise that did not, in fact, happen. The prediction was not about storm surge. Storm surge has hit many times before Sandy (before New York was New York, even!) The Great Storm of 1693, for example, or the 1788 storm that left the Battery in ruins, or the Norfolk and Long Island Hurricane that flooded NY City up to Canal street in 1821, or the 1893 hurricane that washed away Hog Island, or the Long Island Express that hit in 1938.

It's difficult to make predictions, especially about the future.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 108 by Tanypteryx, posted 08-04-2021 1:33 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

  
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