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Author Topic:   COVID vaccine works - we're saved!
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9532
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 629 of 1110 (909799)
04-11-2023 1:53 PM
Reply to: Message 628 by Kleinman
04-11-2023 1:20 PM


Would you like to explain the relevance of that, aside from the obvious attempt to change the subject?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 628 by Kleinman, posted 04-11-2023 1:20 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 630 by Kleinman, posted 04-11-2023 2:07 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9532
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 639 of 1110 (909816)
04-11-2023 4:20 PM
Reply to: Message 630 by Kleinman
04-11-2023 2:07 PM


kleinman writes:
Did locking up Daryll Rowe stop the spread of HIV in your town?
Does locking up a murderer stop murder?
Why do we have laws and punishments for breaking them Kleineman?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 630 by Kleinman, posted 04-11-2023 2:07 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 641 by Kleinman, posted 04-11-2023 4:34 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9532
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 648 of 1110 (909826)
04-11-2023 5:26 PM
Reply to: Message 641 by Kleinman
04-11-2023 4:34 PM


Intention Kleinman, intention. Wrap your bizarre, corrupted mind around that. Deliberate and planned. Knowingly causing harm.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 641 by Kleinman, posted 04-11-2023 4:34 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 650 by Kleinman, posted 04-11-2023 5:47 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9532
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


(2)
Message 709 of 1110 (909913)
04-13-2023 8:28 AM
Reply to: Message 706 by Kleinman
04-12-2023 5:02 PM


Re: The Right to Spread Disease
Kleinman writes:
Isn't this thread about the spread of Covid and other infectious diseases such as tuberculosis?
The thread is about the COVID vaccine. The clue is in the title and the post #1.
I don't think you understand how vaccines work even though you say you do.
I suspect that we DO know how vaccines work but I also suspect that you're going to say something incredibly dumb about them that flies in the face of all known facts.
A vaccine doesn't protect you from getting infected with the given disease or necessarily prevent the spread of the disease.
And there it is. Full on stupid.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 706 by Kleinman, posted 04-12-2023 5:02 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 711 by Kleinman, posted 04-13-2023 8:56 AM Tangle has not replied
 Message 714 by Percy, posted 04-13-2023 9:26 AM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9532
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


(4)
Message 752 of 1110 (909986)
04-14-2023 9:40 AM


Public Health England (PHE) convened an expert Respiratory Evidence Panel in February 2021 to critically assess the evidence behind SARS-CoV-2 transmission to inform their guidance and recommendations.
The panel comprised a group of infectious disease, hygiene, virology, microbiology, respiratory infection, engineering, occupational safety, and infection prevention and control (IPC) experts, including representation on relevant UK advisory panels (Scientific Advisory Group for Emergencies (SAGE) and New and Emerging Respiratory Virus Threats Advisory Group (NERVTAG).
Research and analysis
The role of face coverings in mitigating the transmission of SARS-CoV-2 virus: statement from the Respiratory Evidence Panel (2021)
Updated 30 March 2023
the evidence suggests that all types of face coverings are, to some extent, effective in reducing transmission of SARS-CoV-2 in both healthcare and public, community settings – this is through a combination of source control and protection to the wearer (high confidence)
laboratory data shows that non-medical masks (such as cloth masks) made of 2 or 3 layers may have similar filtration efficiency to surgical masks (high confidence)
epidemiological evidence (usually of low or very low certainty) from SARS-CoV-2 and other respiratory viruses suggests that, in healthcare settings, N95 respirators (or equivalent) may be more effective than surgical masks in reducing the risk of infection in the mask wearer [footnote 3] (low confidence)
evidence, mainly from laboratory studies, suggests that face coverings should be well-fitted and cover the mouth and nose to increase effectiveness (as fit is a limiting factor in the overall mask protective efficiency independently of the filtration efficiency of its fabric) (high confidence)
there is a need for improved training (in health and care settings) and public health messaging (in community settings) on mask fitting (and quality in the community) (medium confidence)
there is insufficient evidence to support the use of double-masking in a healthcare setting (not ranked due to insufficient evidence)
The role of face coverings in mitigating the transmission of SARS-CoV-2 virus: statement from the Respiratory Evidence Panel (2021) - GOV.UK

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


Replies to this message:
 Message 753 by Kleinman, posted 04-14-2023 9:51 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9532
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


(4)
Message 755 of 1110 (909989)
04-14-2023 10:05 AM
Reply to: Message 753 by Kleinman
04-14-2023 9:51 AM


kleinman writes:
Is this your way of saying that you don't have the data that show that masks are effective?
This might seem odd to you kleinman, but I'm not responsible for collating health data on behalf of His Majesty's Government.
What I do have is access to the meta analysis of all available evidence on the effectiveness of mask wearing during COVID in the UK from qualified experts.
The full study is below. If you can find fault I suggest you contact them directly, I'm sure they'd love to hear from you.
https://assets.publishing.service.gov.uk/...are-settings.pdf

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 753 by Kleinman, posted 04-14-2023 9:51 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 757 by Kleinman, posted 04-14-2023 10:59 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9532
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


(3)
Message 758 of 1110 (909992)
04-14-2023 12:12 PM
Reply to: Message 757 by Kleinman
04-14-2023 10:59 AM


Kleinman writes:
I'm not asking you to collate any data, only to present data that shows that masks prevent the spread of Covid (or any other infectious disease).
Well, in another deep and unexpected development I can reveal that not only do I not collate data for HMG's research services, I don't have any to present to you either.
What I DO have is the full report from the experts who DO have the data and their findings on it.
You don't understand the problem.
Funnily enough I do, and so do they. But we're getting pretty used to only kleinman understanding anything.
Here is an illustration of one of the problems with masks. Here in California, the mask mandate gave an exception for young children. I don't know if you have ever been around young children, when they cough and sneeze, many of them don't cover their mouth and they aerosolize saliva. You could have the perfect mask but if you can't get young childrem to wear them or to get adults to wear them properly, they won't help. In addition, the portal of entry of an infectious agent isn't always inhalation. The agent may enter through the eyes or some break in the skin. If you want to improve your chances of not getting an infectious disease, try to avoid having people cough and sneeze on you.
Sheer genius, no-one but you would know all that! Please write to the expert panel who wrote the report and let them know that they got it all wrong!
You seem to be a real expert in creating situations where a lack of the perfect solution means that nothing is worth doing at all. You're the living embodiment of the perfect being the enemy of the good and the false choice fallacy.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 757 by Kleinman, posted 04-14-2023 10:59 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 759 by Kleinman, posted 04-14-2023 12:21 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9532
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


(2)
Message 760 of 1110 (909994)
04-14-2023 12:28 PM
Reply to: Message 759 by Kleinman
04-14-2023 12:21 PM


ffs....will no-one rid me of this troublesome idiot?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 759 by Kleinman, posted 04-14-2023 12:21 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 761 by Kleinman, posted 04-14-2023 12:43 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9532
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


(3)
Message 802 of 1110 (910062)
04-15-2023 5:19 PM


This continuous request for the actual data underpinning peer reviewed, high level, meta analyses is sort of interesting.
I've only published one scientific papers and have never been asked for the data underlying it, nor would I share that data with anyone but another scientist that had a relevant qualification and legitimate interest in my exact field of study. There's no way I'd release my data to an obvious religionist fuckwit like kleinman.
I suspect that this continued requirement for the impossible is from previous attempts by kleinman to get recognition for his error ridden ideas. Real scientist doing real science have shunned him, other forums have banned him so he's here tormenting half a dozen aged atheists. I suppose he gets his narcissistic kicks wherever he can.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


Replies to this message:
 Message 803 by Kleinman, posted 04-15-2023 5:47 PM Tangle has not replied
 Message 804 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-15-2023 6:16 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9532
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 895 of 1110 (910217)
04-19-2023 1:30 PM
Reply to: Message 893 by Percy
04-19-2023 1:08 PM


Re: The Right to Spread Disease
Percy writes:
Addressing this generally to the thread, I don't know if anyone has already posted this, but I found this message at Panda's Thumb: Evaluating Alan Kleinman's arguments
It's been posted at least twice Percy.
Several attempts have been made to reason with him but he is impervious - he's a religious nut job and troll with no hope of redemption.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 893 by Percy, posted 04-19-2023 1:08 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 899 by Kleinman, posted 04-19-2023 1:46 PM Tangle has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9532
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


(3)
Message 1057 of 1110 (910519)
04-26-2023 3:24 AM
Reply to: Message 1043 by xongsmith
04-25-2023 5:53 PM


Re: The Right to Kick Off Assholes
As far as I can tell, this particular troll is
a right-wing Christian fundamentalist
probably a creationist
probably a gun owner, definitely a gun supporter
an anti-vaxxer
a Republican, probably far right
a conspiracy theorist
a serial forum killer
deluded about his understanding of evolution
unable to accept correction
is against gay rights, gay marriage and abortion
someone who refuses to deny that he's Fox News fan that believes that the election was stolen.
In other words, he's got the full deck of loony-tune, nut-job cards. He's a poster-child for motivated thinking. It was interesting to watch him at work doing his schtick for a while, now he's just boring.
He needs moderating at least.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1043 by xongsmith, posted 04-25-2023 5:53 PM xongsmith has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1060 by Kleinman, posted 04-26-2023 9:25 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9532
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


Message 1062 of 1110 (910524)
04-26-2023 9:41 AM
Reply to: Message 1060 by Kleinman
04-26-2023 9:25 AM


Re: The Right to Kick Off Assholes
Admin will rightly declare this conversation off-topic shortly so just before he does, from your reply, the only statement of mine you deny is being a Republican. Even then you equivocated by declaring that you were once a Democrat. I view that as the same as me saying that I was once a Catholic.
Do you have a position on homosexuality, same sex marriage, abortion?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1060 by Kleinman, posted 04-26-2023 9:25 AM Kleinman has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9532
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


(2)
Message 1066 of 1110 (910531)
04-26-2023 11:46 AM
Reply to: Message 1064 by Kleinman
04-26-2023 10:48 AM


Re: The Right to Spread the GOD thing
Ok, I'll update the list with homophobia and anti-abortion. Let me know if you change your mind.
(You'd be a very weird-looking democrat - one of a kind I'd say. Impossible would be closer.)

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1064 by Kleinman, posted 04-26-2023 10:48 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1067 by Kleinman, posted 04-26-2023 11:53 AM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9532
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


(2)
Message 1068 of 1110 (910533)
04-26-2023 12:03 PM
Reply to: Message 1067 by Kleinman
04-26-2023 11:53 AM


Re: The Right to Spread the GOD thing
Sorry, missed a couple; was the elections stolen? What's your opinion of Fox News?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1067 by Kleinman, posted 04-26-2023 11:53 AM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1069 by Kleinman, posted 04-26-2023 12:11 PM Tangle has replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9532
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 4.6


(1)
Message 1070 of 1110 (910536)
04-26-2023 1:25 PM
Reply to: Message 1069 by Kleinman
04-26-2023 12:11 PM


Re: The Right to Spread the GOD thing
Kleinman writes:
Tangle can't stay on the topic he started. Isn't he happy with this subject of the covid vaccine?
We're all just passing time now while Percy put's his Policeman's hat on. Do you want to answer my questions while we wait - was the election stolen? Are you a Fox News fan?

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 1069 by Kleinman, posted 04-26-2023 12:11 PM Kleinman has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 1071 by Kleinman, posted 04-26-2023 2:02 PM Tangle has replied

  
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