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Author Topic:   COVID vaccine works - we're saved!
kjsimons
Member
Posts: 733
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003


Message 121 of 143 (887879)
08-24-2021 7:09 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by Percy
08-24-2021 6:38 PM


Well, I might have to boil water, I don't know about them. The well water here is full of hydrogen sulfide (rotten egg smell) and so without the ozone treatment to burn that and other stuff off I'm not going to drink the water. The ozone treatment is rather high end and is what the water bottlers use to make water taste better and sanitize it.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by Percy, posted 08-24-2021 6:38 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33409
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 122 of 143 (887880)
08-24-2021 7:45 PM
Reply to: Message 120 by Percy
08-24-2021 6:38 PM


Actually they most likely ignore that as well. They will buy bottled water rather than boil it.

My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 120 by Percy, posted 08-24-2021 6:38 PM Percy has responded

Replies to this message:
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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2571
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 5.5


(1)
Message 123 of 143 (887884)
08-25-2021 1:26 AM


According to today's Oregon Health Authority data, statewide we are down to 7% of staffed adult ICU beds available and 9% staffed non-ICU beds available. We never seem to run out of stupid people, no matter how hard they try.

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


  
PaulK
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Posts: 16962
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 124 of 143 (887928)
08-26-2021 1:18 AM


This may persuade Americans to get vaccinated
An insurance surcharge for the unvaccinated (Ars Technica). Hospitalisation for serious COVID cases is expensive and insurers are losing money. Delta Airlines is the first company to impose a surcharge on its employees - it’s not likely to be the last.

Given the infection risk of air travel I hope that vaccination is already mandatory for all aircrew - especially cabin staff.


Replies to this message:
 Message 125 by nwr, posted 08-26-2021 3:13 AM PaulK has not yet responded

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 5789
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 125 of 143 (887929)
08-26-2021 3:13 AM
Reply to: Message 124 by PaulK
08-26-2021 1:18 AM


Re: This may persuade Americans to get vaccinated
$200 per month (the Delta Airlines charge) does make for a strong incentive. But some people are very stubborn. And some of those will file law suits against Delta.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 124 by PaulK, posted 08-26-2021 1:18 AM PaulK has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 16962
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 126 of 143 (887931)
08-26-2021 4:21 AM


And more insanity from the US
Texas, of course.

Governor Abbott has reacted to the FDA approval of a COVID vaccine - by extending his order banning vaccination mandates so that it covers FDA approved vaccines.

The Republicans continue to be the pro-COVID party.


  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20219
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


(1)
Message 127 of 143 (887933)
08-26-2021 8:07 AM
Reply to: Message 122 by jar
08-24-2021 7:45 PM


Actually I was thinking of the irony of ignoring advice about airborne disease while accepting advice about waterborne disease.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 122 by jar, posted 08-24-2021 7:45 PM jar has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 129 by ooh-child, posted 08-27-2021 4:07 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33409
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 128 of 143 (887953)
08-27-2021 1:35 PM


As of yesterday Hidalgo County has MORE people hospitalized by Covid-19 than at anytime since August 19th 2020.

My Website: My Website

  
ooh-child
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Posts: 242
Joined: 04-10-2009


(4)
Message 129 of 143 (887955)
08-27-2021 4:07 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by Percy
08-26-2021 8:07 AM


Hey you guys!!!
Sorry I’ve been way away from you guys! Missed you but I got the J&J but I lost my job in 10/19. Trying to adjust to my new digs

Missed you dudes


This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Percy, posted 08-26-2021 8:07 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
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jar
Member
Posts: 33409
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 3.2


(2)
Message 130 of 143 (887956)
08-27-2021 4:11 PM
Reply to: Message 129 by ooh-child
08-27-2021 4:07 PM


Re: Hey you guys!!!
Stay safe.

My Website: My Website

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 Message 129 by ooh-child, posted 08-27-2021 4:07 PM ooh-child has not yet responded

  
riVeRraT
Member
Posts: 5755
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


(1)
Message 131 of 143 (888184)
09-09-2021 9:25 AM
Reply to: Message 106 by PaulK
08-10-2021 3:12 PM


I think you mean vaccines which only protect against the symptoms - which is not the case of any of the COVID vaccines available

No that is not what I meant. The science behind what I am saying has been around for a half a century already.
Imperfect Vaccination Can Enhance the Transmission of Highly Virulent Pathogens

You can't really go by what you hear today about Covid, one because it is being politicized, and 2 because there hasn't been enough actual science done about what is happening.

The massive reduction in hospitalisations alone saves lives. The reduced number of infections slows the spread. And fewer infected people means less risk of catching the disease - and fewer mutations in the virus. It’s the unvaccinated who are the problem

You just completely by-passed my point. Right now it would appear that the vaccine is saving lives, but is it really? All the numbers being reported say that vaccinated people are half as likely to transmit the diseae. However, vaccinated people are 10x(?) more likely to go out into crowds and catch it. If it is possible that vaccines can make stronger pathogens appear, then our future doesn't look too bright.

Doesn't anyone remember 30 years or so ago when doctors started prescribing antibiotics less because the overuse of antibiotics can lead to antibiotic resistant bacteria?

Sounds like the lies of someone who wants people to die.

Comments like these, the memes, and the fallacy about drinking bleach, are what led me to leave this forum for so long. I guess people are still not capable of rational discussion. Due to that fact, I can't really respect the opinions of anyone who behaves like that.

Just FYI, I am a Director of Facilities for a very large Nursing Home now. I worked through this entire pandemic and risked my life to save those of the elderly. I live in NY and had to endure Cuomo sending us Covid infected residents to a facility that is in no way set up to handle such an infectious disease. He put them all at risk, and me and my familiy. I watched people die. I also watched how the vaccine is saving them. I am not anti-vax. The vaccine is good for them, so far, but people are still getting sick and dying.

So do me a favor and all of you take your stupid childish comments and stick them up your ass. The title of this thread is "we're saved". I don't see that as a reality. In fact the end result may be worse....or not. 2 weeks to flatten the curve and herd immunity were both lies. We are just about at herd immunity, and Covid is worse than ever.

Edited by riVeRraT, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 106 by PaulK, posted 08-10-2021 3:12 PM PaulK has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by PaulK, posted 09-09-2021 10:20 AM riVeRraT has responded
 Message 133 by nwr, posted 09-09-2021 10:45 AM riVeRraT has responded
 Message 134 by Percy, posted 09-09-2021 5:59 PM riVeRraT has responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 16962
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 132 of 143 (888186)
09-09-2021 10:20 AM
Reply to: Message 131 by riVeRraT
09-09-2021 9:25 AM


quote:
No that is not what I meant. The science behind what I am saying has been around for a half a century already.
Imperfect Vaccination Can Enhance the Transmission of Highly Virulent Pathogens

Then it’s odd that you cite a study based on a vaccine which only protects against the symptoms. See also Message 110

quote:
You can't really go by what you hear today about Covid, one because it is being politicized, and 2 because there hasn't been enough actual science done about what is happening.

Just because the Right has decided to support the virus doesn’t mean that the science isn’t being done.

quote:
You just completely by-passed my point. Right now it would appear that the vaccine is saving lives, but is it really? All the numbers being reported say that vaccinated people are half as likely to transmit the diseae. However, vaccinated people are 10x(?) more likely to go out into crowds and catch it. If it is possible that vaccines can make stronger pathogens appear, then our future doesn't look too bright.

No, I did not “bypass your point”. I pointed out that the vaccine is saving lives and went on to point out relevant issues. The fact that vaccinated people are less likely to catch and spread the virus is relevant - that is not the case with Marek’s disease in chickens. I’ll grant that people shouldn’t take the vaccine as a license to return to pre-COVID behaviour - but that isn’t a problem with the vaccine.

Right now the unvaccinated are the major problem.

quote:
Comments like these, the memes, and the fallacy about drinking bleach, are what led me to leave this forum for so long. I guess people are still not capable of rational discussion. Due to that fact, I can't really respect the opinions of anyone who behaves like that.

Well I’m glad you recognise that your opinions don’t deserve respect. And thank you for not inflicting them on us, even for a short while. I raised rational points against your argument and you just ignored them.

quote:
Just FYI, I am a Director of Facilities for a very large Nursing Home now. I worked through this entire pandemic and risked my life to save those of the elderly. I live in NY and had to endure Cuomo sending us Covid infected residents to a facility that is in no way set up to handle such an infectious disease. He put them all at risk, and me and my familiy. I watched people die. I also watched how the vaccine is saving them. I am not anti-vax. The vaccine is good for them, so far, but people are still getting sick and dying.

The fact that you are scaremongering about the vaccine undercuts those assertions.

quote:
So do me a favor and all of you take your stupid childish comments and stick them up your ass. The title of this thread is "we're saved".

Which was obvious hyperbole! Not to be taken seriously

quote:
I don't see that as a reality. In fact the end result may be worse....or not. 2 weeks to flatten the curve and herd immunity were both lies. We are just about at herd immunity, and Covid is worse than ever.

No, you are NOT near herd immunity. Herd immunity requires something in the range of 80-88% immune. (Wikipedia)
Only 60% of the total population of New York City is fully vaccinated (71% of adults) and rates are worse outside the city.

Spreading doubt about the vaccine will not help.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by riVeRraT, posted 09-09-2021 9:25 AM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 136 by riVeRraT, posted 09-10-2021 9:08 AM PaulK has not yet responded

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 5789
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 133 of 143 (888187)
09-09-2021 10:45 AM
Reply to: Message 131 by riVeRraT
09-09-2021 9:25 AM


Doesn't anyone remember 30 years or so ago when doctors started prescribing antibiotics less because the overuse of antibiotics can lead to antibiotic resistant bacteria?

Vaccines and antibiotics are very different things. You cannot generalize from the one to the other.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by riVeRraT, posted 09-09-2021 9:25 AM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 135 by riVeRraT, posted 09-10-2021 8:46 AM nwr has acknowledged this reply

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20219
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 4.8


(1)
Message 134 of 143 (888195)
09-09-2021 5:59 PM
Reply to: Message 131 by riVeRraT
09-09-2021 9:25 AM


Your post has already drawn a couple replies, but it's important that accurate virus information get out there, so I'm going to post another.

riVeRraT writes:

I think you mean vaccines which only protect against the symptoms - which is not the case of any of the COVID vaccines available

No that is not what I meant. The science behind what I am saying has been around for a half a century already.
Imperfect Vaccination Can Enhance the Transmission of Highly Virulent Pathogens

The article is an endorsement of the importance of vaccinating up to and beyond the point of herd immunity. Anything less increases the likelihood of more virulent strains mutating and spreading through the unvaccinated subpopulation. This is precisely what we've seen happen with the delta strain.

You can't really go by what you hear today about Covid, one because it is being politicized, and 2 because there hasn't been enough actual science done about what is happening.

You don't specify what about covid that you think we can't trust, but there are a few things that we absolutely do know for certain, and that's that these measures if widely followed will eliminate the virus:

  1. Socially distance.
  2. Always wear a mask indoors. Wear one outdoors, too, when in crowds like sports events, concerts, etc. Avoid indoor restaurants and bars. A high quality mask is best. Recent studied have shown surgical masks and N95's to be equally effective.
  3. Get vaccinated.

The poorer the adherence to these guidelines, the longer the virus will hang around, and the greater the chances for the emergence of more virulent strains.

Right now it would appear that the vaccine is saving lives, but is it really?

The data is unambiguous that the vaccine is saving lives. Of all people hospitalized with covid, less than 5% of those who die are vaccinated.

Doesn't anyone remember 30 years or so ago when doctors started prescribing antibiotics less because the overuse of antibiotics can lead to antibiotic resistant bacteria?

As nwr said, you can't analogize vaccines and antibiotics. For one simple example of how different they are, have you ever been prescribed a two-week regimen of vaccine tablets? [A company named Vaxart actually attempted a tablet approach for the virus (they investigated both one high dose tablet and two lower dose tablets a month apart, similar to the shot-style vaccines) but had poor results, though work continues.]

Sounds like the lies of someone who wants people to die.

Comments like these, the memes, and the fallacy about drinking bleach, are what led me to leave this forum for so long. I guess people are still not capable of rational discussion. Due to that fact, I can't really respect the opinions of anyone who behaves like that.

If you're going to say incredibly ignorant things like this, as you did in Message 105:

We are being told to vaccinate to "stop the virus" ~Dr.Fauci
This seems to be a lie.

Sounds like a money making machine to me.

Then you have to man up when people note its ignorance.

Just FYI, I am a Director of Facilities for a very large Nursing Home now.

Despite working in large facilities all my working life, I picked up remarkably little about the management and operations of large facilities. In the same way, a person will learn remarkably little about health and medical issues from working in facilities management at a health care facility.

I worked through this entire pandemic and risked my life to save those of the elderly. I live in NY and had to endure Cuomo sending us Covid infected residents to a facility that is in no way set up to handle such an infectious disease. He put them all at risk, and me and my family.

Many people in many industries have been and still are being placed at risk. Nationally, extremely few elder care facilities were prepared to deal with a virus like covid. The virus swept through assisted living facilities and nursing homes everywhere all across the country. Nationally about 8% of residents died.

I watched people die. I also watched how the vaccine is saving them. I am not anti-vax. The vaccine is good for them, so far, but people are still getting sick and dying.

Vaccines provide a defense against infection, not protection. Viruses are fought by the body's immune system. A virus cannot be fought off until the body detects a viral infection. There's nothing in a vaccine to prevent covid virus from being inhaled into the sinuses or lungs. Once viruses begin invading cells then the immune system of a vaccinated person is already prepped to begin fighting off the virus, thus vaccinated people are much more likely to have no symptoms or only mild symptoms.

An unvaccinated person's immune system still has a lot of work to do once a viral infection is detected. The virus can march through the body unimpeded for the couple weeks it takes the immune system to mount a response.

So do me a favor and all of you take your stupid childish comments and stick them up your ass.

I understand that you were unaware that some of the things you said were ignorant or erroneous at the time you made them, but presumably you know better now.

The title of this thread is "we're saved". I don't see that as a reality. In fact the end result may be worse....or not.

As long as the world remains below herd immunity the possibility exists of the emergence of even more virulent strains. The wealthy nations have not yet internalized that unless they completely cut themselves off from the rest of the world, reaching herd immunity within their borders won't squelch the virus and they'll still suffer periodic outbreaks, perhaps even ones against which the vaccines provide no protection at all.

2 weeks to flatten the curve and herd immunity were both lies.

This was never said by anyone knowledgable. What is true is that if everyone around the world masked up for real for a month it would not just flatten the curve but put an industrial sized dent in it. And herd immunity, which given the delta variant could be somewhere north of 85%, would make any region relatively safe until invaded by hardier variants.

We are just about at herd immunity, and Covid is worse than ever.

As a country we're pretty far from herd immunity. Nationwide we're at 53.4% fully vaccinated, around 30 percentage points away from herd immunity, so nowhere close to it.

So of course covid is worse than ever. As a nation we're doing a terrible job of social distancing, masking up and vaccinating. That the least socially distanced, masked up and vaccinated parts of the country are doing the worst makes clear their importance. And since there was never enough vaccine for the world, the more virulent delta strain has made the situation even worse.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
 Message 131 by riVeRraT, posted 09-09-2021 9:25 AM riVeRraT has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 138 by riVeRraT, posted 09-10-2021 9:27 AM Percy has responded

  
riVeRraT
Member
Posts: 5755
From: NY USA
Joined: 05-09-2004


Message 135 of 143 (888204)
09-10-2021 8:46 AM
Reply to: Message 133 by nwr
09-09-2021 10:45 AM


The evolution caused by both is not different.

Edited by riVeRraT, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 133 by nwr, posted 09-09-2021 10:45 AM nwr has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
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