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Author Topic:   Anti-theist
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 3966
Joined: 07-01-2005


(2)
Message 252 of 464 (885466)
04-14-2021 12:03 AM
Reply to: Message 250 by Phat
04-11-2021 9:28 AM


Re: Sundae Service Sermon
quote:
Science is not a power unto itself. Science is only as alive and influential as the people who use it. I predict that some day when desperate people again turn to "myths" for comfort that science will try and make them stop doing that. (Rather, those holding the concept of science in their minds who also reject the idea of God. ) This alone will lead to further wars.

After all these years, I still dont think you understand what science is.

Science is a method. Specifically, it's the best known method to distinguish fact from fiction and account for inherent biases and experimental flukes.

You treat science like some political bloc that has policies and influence. It's not. Science is a method, and generously a body of knowledge accumulated through the application of that method.

Science doesnt "try and make" anyone do or not do anything. Science is a method for distinguishing fact from fiction. The most reliable, practical method known to humanity. But it's just a method.

Science is the pursuit of truth - more accurate, the pursuit of fact. The key notion of science is to seek facts and distinguish them from fantasy. If some "comforting myth" is actually factually accurate, science will help us determine that. If that myth is not factually accurate, science will help us determine that. Rational people want to believe claims and models that are factually true and not believe claims and models that are factually inaccurate - a fancy way to say false. But that's a matter of rationality and people; you (the general you, though also you personally) can make yourself believe anything, regardless of how well that belief matches up to reality. If a myth is factually accurate, I want to believe that the myth is factually accurate. if the myth is not factually accurate...why would you want to believe it is?

Science doesnt make anyone do anything. Science is a method that helps us distinguish fact from fiction. If your beliefs align with fact, you'll be able to make more accurate predictions about the real world. Science cannot destroy truth; it can only destroy lies. Yes, scientists make mistakes - science is not scientists. Science is a method, and its application corrects mistakes eventually. It's a self-correcting method, because applying it testably and verifiable distinguishes fact from fiction.

If you feel that science, a method that distinguishes fact from fiction, is compelling you to disbelieve a favored belief....that likely means your belief is false. And why would you want to continue to hold a false belief? Even a comforting one?

Edited by Rahvin, : Reverted italics formatting at the end. Also hold, not fold.


“The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.” - Francis Bacon

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers

“A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity.” – Albert Camus

"...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995...

"Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf, J. R. R. Tolkien: The Lord Of the Rings

"The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."
1 Corinthians 15:26King James Version (KJV)

Nihil supernum


This message is a reply to:
 Message 250 by Phat, posted 04-11-2021 9:28 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
Rahvin
Member
Posts: 3966
Joined: 07-01-2005


(1)
Message 271 of 464 (885499)
04-14-2021 7:43 PM
Reply to: Message 269 by Phat
04-14-2021 7:11 PM


Re: Phat, Explain Yourself
Do you have to *work* at tossing around meaningless deep-sounding nonsense, or does it come naturally to you?

Facts stand for themselves. Facts have no political bias, they are simply true. Sources are accurate or inaccurate and this whole "leftist source" thing is absurd. Appealing to supposed political motivations is just another logical fallacy - it's irrelevant to the truth or fiction of any arguments made.

quote:
I have read 500 page books on the History of Christianity

...wow? Good for you?

quote:
You really need to quit listening to revisionist mythologists. Granted Christianity was often bloody, scandalous, and unchristian, but the founder, a Jewish Rabbi, was guiltless of any of your charges

No True Scotsman fallacy, combined with ignoring some of the words of Jesus:

Matthew 3:11-12:
I baptize you with water, but someone is coming who is mightier than me [3] will baptize you with the Holy Ghost and with fire. He will burn the chaff with unquenchable fire.

Mat 3:19:
Every tree that bears bad fruit will be cut down and cast into the fire.

Mat 10:21:
Brothers will condemn their own brothers to death; fathers, their children; children will revolt against their parents, and cause them to be put to death. [5]

11:21-24:
Woe unto thee, Chorazin! woe unto thee, Bethsaida! for if the mighty works, which were done in you, had been done in Tyre and Sidon, they would have repented long ago in sackcloth and ashes. But I say unto you, It shall be more tolerable for Tyre and Sidon at the day of judgment, than for you. And thou, Capernaum, which art exalted unto heaven, shalt be brought down to hell: for if the mighty works, which have been done in thee, had been done in Sodom, it would have remained until this day. But I say unto you, That it shall be more tolerable for the land of Sodom in the day of judgment, than for thee.

Hell, this is just a few examples from Matthew. It doesnt matter if he's saying god will do it - he's telling people that its okay for very bad things including fire and torture and death to happen to "bad people." What do you think happens when you do that? This is fomenting violence! How could later Christians *not* follow this example with violence against the unbelievers? jesus said this is what they had coming! Are they not the arm of Christ, delivering justice at the will of his father? That's certainly what they believed. That's certainly why Chritianity has been so bloody.

"Unchristian" my ass.

quote:
Lets see what a mess the secular humanist scientists make of things as they attempt to balance the fairness on the planet, do away with religion, and optimistically plan for a brighter future they envision

It would be hard to do a *worse* job than Christianity has historically done. But please support the assertion that "secular humanist scientists" are trying to "do away with religion." This is not a part of any political party's electoral platform, and neither is banning religion something even secular humanist atheists actually want to do. Rather, they want to promote rational thinking to the point people abandon religion on their own. Religion is a symptom of the irrationality disease; education is the only necessary cure. There's no need to "do away with" anything.


“The human understanding when it has once adopted an opinion (either as being the received opinion or as being agreeable to itself) draws all things else to support and agree with it.” - Francis Bacon

"There are two novels that can change a bookish fourteen-year old's life: The Lord of the Rings and Atlas Shrugged. One is a childish fantasy that often engenders a lifelong obsession with its unbelievable heroes, leading to an emotionally stunted, socially crippled adulthood, unable to deal with the real world. The other, of course, involves orcs." - John Rogers

“A world that can be explained even with bad reasons is a familiar world. But, on the other hand, in a universe suddenly divested of illusions and lights, man feels an alien, a stranger. His exile is without remedy since he is deprived of the memory of a lost home or the hope of a promised land. This divorce between man and his life, the actor and his setting, is properly the feeling of absurdity.” – Albert Camus

"...the pious hope that by combining numerous little turds of variously tainted data, one can obtain a valuable result; but in fact, the outcome is merely a larger than average pile of shit." - Barash, David 1995...

"Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf, J. R. R. Tolkien: The Lord Of the Rings

"The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death."
1 Corinthians 15:26King James Version (KJV)

Nihil supernum


This message is a reply to:
 Message 269 by Phat, posted 04-14-2021 7:11 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 278 by Phat, posted 04-17-2021 10:17 AM Rahvin has not yet responded

  
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