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Author Topic:   Anti-theist
ringo
Member (Idle past 529 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 721 of 895 (895533)
07-05-2022 1:21 PM
Reply to: Message 720 by Phat
07-05-2022 1:04 PM


Re: ringos Homework assignment
Phat writes:
I did my homework out of semi-desperation this morning.
I asked you to look up "liberal" in the BIBLE.
I didn't expect you to do it, so I did it for you. Here is every reference (in the KJV) to the word "liberal":
quote
Proverbs 11:25 The liberal soul shall be made fat: and he that watereth shall be watered also himself.
Isaiah 32:5 The vile person shall be no more called liberal, nor the churl said to be bountiful.
Isaiah 32:8 But the liberal deviseth liberal things; and by liberal things shall he stand.
2Corinthians 9:13 Whiles by the experiment of this ministration they glorify God for your professed subjection unto the gospel of Christ, and for your liberal distribution unto them, and unto all men;
And here are references to variations - e.g. "liberality", "liberally":
quote
Deuteronomy 15:14 Thou shalt furnish him liberally out of thy flock, and out of thy floor, and out of thy winepress: of that wherewith the LORD thy God hath blessed thee thou shalt give unto him.
1Corinthians 16:3 And when I come, whomsoever ye shall approve by your letters, them will I send to bring your liberality unto Jerusalem.
2Corinthinans 8:2 How that in a great trial of affliction the abundance of their joy and their deep poverty abounded unto the riches of their liberality.
James 1:5 If any of you lack wisdom, let him ask of God, that giveth to all men liberally, and upbraideth not; and it shall be given him.
It looks to me like the Bible has a pretty positive attitudes toward liberals.
Phat writes:
Why I get so mad at "Liberals" has been partly because I have felt that they (you) were against me and my personal beliefs...
Well, the Bible is against your personal beliefs.
Phat writes:
... and expected me to listen to "what Jesus" told me to do.
I keep asking you, why wouldn't you do what Jesus told you to do?
Phat writes:
Ironic that this edict comes from a group of unbelievers!
Not very ironic. Unbelievers tend to be more honest than believers.

"Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt."
-- motto of the Special Olympians

This message is a reply to:
 Message 720 by Phat, posted 07-05-2022 1:04 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18457
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 722 of 895 (895534)
07-05-2022 1:52 PM
Reply to: Message 713 by Tangle
07-02-2022 4:43 PM


A few videos that No one will watch
Tangle, I know that you often chide me for preaching Doom. I dont mean to be negative---only realistic. I peruse hundreds of You Tube videos...most of which I dont agree with. Some of the ones that I think are quite plausible are shared with you here. None of them are religious. And I think that all of them are backed by science. If anyone either watches some of the content or the transcripts, feel free to comment. I doubt you will be able to prove that these videos are not plausible.
Who Controls All Our Money?
Devastating Solar Storm Hits Earth
The San Andreas Fault: Disaster About to Strike]The San Andreas Fault: Disaster About to Strike
Yellowstone: Big Volcano Ready to Erupt
Volcanic Hyper Eruption
In my opinion, humans are likely to exasperate their own demise with or without scientific evidence of upcoming disasters, which could well be ten thousand years in the future.
Two things irritate me for better or worse. One, which the facts show as likely, a financial collapse will occur within our lifetimes. And this alone could trigger further global wars.
And even with no God, no apocalypse and no religious judgment, there are many events which could challenge humanity.
So here we all are. ringo claims that I, as the "Christian" am commanded by Jesus to give everything up. No one else here is so commanded.
And yet I fear that you dont understand reality vs gambling. (im slowly learning!) My question to all of you is this: Is humanity ready to cooperate should chaos erupt?

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 713 by Tangle, posted 07-02-2022 4:43 PM Tangle has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 724 by nwr, posted 07-05-2022 4:43 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 725 by DrJones*, posted 07-05-2022 11:49 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 726 by Tangle, posted 07-06-2022 3:35 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 727 by ringo, posted 07-07-2022 12:45 PM Phat has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6445
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.2


(2)
Message 723 of 895 (895552)
07-05-2022 4:40 PM
Reply to: Message 720 by Phat
07-05-2022 1:04 PM


Re: ringos Homework assignment
Why I get so mad at "Liberals" has been partly because I have felt that they (you) were against me and my personal beliefs and expected me to listen to "what Jesus" told me to do.
Just to be clear, I am not against you or against your personal beliefs. You are entitled to those.
Nobody is telling you what you should do. They are just reminding you of what Jesus taught.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 720 by Phat, posted 07-05-2022 1:04 PM Phat has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6445
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.2


(5)
Message 724 of 895 (895553)
07-05-2022 4:43 PM
Reply to: Message 722 by Phat
07-05-2022 1:52 PM


Re: A few videos that No one will watch
My question to all of you is this: Is humanity ready to cooperate should chaos erupt?
The liberals are ready to cooperate. I very much doubt that the conservatives are ready.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 722 by Phat, posted 07-05-2022 1:52 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2304
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 4.0


(1)
Message 725 of 895 (895565)
07-05-2022 11:49 PM
Reply to: Message 722 by Phat
07-05-2022 1:52 PM


Re: A few videos that No one will watch
So here we all are. ringo claims that I, as the "Christian" am commanded by Jesus to give everything up. No one else here is so commanded.
why would those of us who aren't christians give a single solitary fuck for what jesus commands? you claim to be a follower of his, it's your job to, y'know, follow.

It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
 Message 722 by Phat, posted 07-05-2022 1:52 PM Phat has not replied

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 9540
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.9


(4)
Message 726 of 895 (895572)
07-06-2022 3:35 AM
Reply to: Message 722 by Phat
07-05-2022 1:52 PM


Re: A few videos that No one will watch
Phat writes:
Tangle, I know that you often chide me for preaching Doom. I dont mean to be negative---only realistic. I peruse hundreds of You Tube videos...most of which I dont agree with. Some of the ones that I think are quite plausible are shared with you here. None of them are religious. And I think that all of them are backed by science. If anyone either watches some of the content or the transcripts, feel free to comment. I doubt you will be able to prove that these videos are not plausible.
Do you think it's healthy to spend so much time searching out disaster movies? You're just sinking into self-focused madness.
Nothing's changed Phat. The chance of an asteroid wiping out civilisation is the same as it has been for millions of years. There's nothing you can do about it except follow the teachings of the guy you profess to believe in or, like all the rest of us, just make the best of the life you have now.

Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London. Olen Suomi Soy Barcelona. I am Ukraine.

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 722 by Phat, posted 07-05-2022 1:52 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 529 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 727 of 895 (895592)
07-07-2022 12:45 PM
Reply to: Message 722 by Phat
07-05-2022 1:52 PM


Re: A few videos that No one will watch
Phat writes:
Devastating Solar Storm Hits Earth

The San Andreas Fault: Disaster About to Strike]The San Andreas Fault: Disaster About to Strike

Yellowstone: Big Volcano Ready to Erupt
Volcanic Hyper Eruption
Who has disputed any of those things here?
But you're being dishonest. You've been talikng about Who Controls All Our Money? here and there is no easy answer to that question.
Will solar storms cause devastation? Yes.
Will earthquakes devastate California? Yes.
Will the Yellowstone volcano erupt? Yes.
Who controls our money? Well, I have pretty good control over my wallet. You'd have to point a gun at me to get control of it. But I don't have control over what a dollar is worth. And I don't have control over how many dollars the government takes from me. Those things are effected by floods, fires and famine. Wars and rumours of war.
But you're trying to make connections between all of those complications and your God, who does not exist. Those imaginary connections are what people are arguing with you.
Phat writes:
In my opinion, humans are likely to exasperate their own demise with or without scientific evidence of upcoming disasters, which could well be ten thousand years in the future.
Ten thousand years in the future doesn't concern me much. I'm more concerned about ten years in the future.
Phat writes:
Two things irritate me for better or worse. One, which the facts show as likely, a financial collapse will occur within our lifetimes.
I've been trying to tell you, financial collapses happen all the time. I keep hearing about a "crash" that happened in 2008 - but I never even noticed it at the time. (It may have been when I didn't have a TV.)
Phat writes:
And this alone could trigger further global wars.
How do you fight a war after a financial collapse? And if you can still fight wars, why can't you still do all of the other things that humans do?
Phat writes:
And even with no God, no apocalypse and no religious judgment, there are many events which could challenge humanity.
And humanity has never had challenges before?
Phat writes:
ringo claims that I, as the "Christian" am commanded by Jesus to give everything up.
It's not a "claim". It's what the Bible says. If there is such a things as a theme that permeates the entire Bible, it's trust in God, not yourself.
Phat writes:
No one else here is so commanded.
Dredge is so commanded. Faith is so commanded, even though she might dispute that Dredge is so commanded, since he's a satan-worshipping Catholic.
I'll say this again, on the off-chance that it might get through your thick skull:
Those of us who don't believe Jesus and/or God exist have no reason to obey Him/Them.
Why is that so hard to understand?
Phat writes:
And yet I fear that you dont understand....
You should stop fearing what we don't understand and make more of an attempt to understand yourself.
Phat writes:
My question to all of you is this: Is humanity ready to cooperate should chaos erupt?
My answer is the same as it has always been: We have to be. Nobody's going to do it for us.
I don't know why you keep asking the same questions over and over again. Do you expect to get different answers?

"Let me win. But if I cannot win, let me be brave in the attempt."
-- motto of the Special Olympians

This message is a reply to:
 Message 722 by Phat, posted 07-05-2022 1:52 PM Phat has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 728 by Percy, posted 07-07-2022 2:43 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22700
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 728 of 895 (895602)
07-07-2022 2:43 PM
Reply to: Message 727 by ringo
07-07-2022 12:45 PM


Re: A few videos that No one will watch
[tongue-in-cheek]
ringo writes:
I've been trying to tell you, financial collapses happen all the time.
Phat's is the correct view of reality, which is contained in Youtube videos - we all know that!
How do you fight a war after a financial collapse? And if you can still fight wars, why can't you still do all of the other things that humans do?
We all know that financial collapses send everyone back to living in caves.
And humanity has never had challenges before?
But these are different.
I'll say this again, on the off-chance that it might get through your thick skull:
Images of Don Quixote tilting with windmills come to mind.
I don't know why you keep asking the same questions over and over again. Do you expect to get different answers?
It *is* a puzzlement.
[/tongue-in-cheek]
I keep hearing about a "crash" that happened in 2008 - but I never even noticed it at the time. (It may have been when I didn't have a TV.)
Waxing serious for a moment, there was a huge financial collapse that began in 2007 brought on by the subprime mortgage scandal. Here in the States there was a recession that lasted from the end of 2007 through the middle of 2009. Like you our family was largely unaffected because my wife and I both kept our jobs, though both our companies had layoffs and froze wages. Lehman Brothers failed. Merrill-Lynch was forced to find a buyer, which turned out to be Bank of America. General Motors required a federal bailout. 25 banks failed, nearly overstressing the FDIC. Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae were taken over by the federal government. The Fed had to print a lot of money. Morgan Stanley was restructured. Bear Stearns had to be acquired by JPMorgan Chase. There was a federal rescue of Citigroup. (All these failures are still familiar to me, but I couldn't recall all of them at once and had to refresh my memory by looking them up.)
But it was a pretty difficult time for a lot of people, and many lost their homes (some at the same time they lost their jobs) because they'd been granted mortgages beyond their ability to pay. The triggering factor for the financial crisis was when it was realized, rather suddenly, that most of the bundles of subprime mortgages called mortgage-backed securities deserved junk status.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 727 by ringo, posted 07-07-2022 12:45 PM ringo has seen this message but not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8615
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 2.3


(1)
Message 729 of 895 (897058)
08-29-2022 1:49 AM


Something Positive
World news is not friendly these days and many, like me, are experiencing the existential dread that humanity seems to be ignoring.
Cheer up!
Also seems apropos to other threads.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

Replies to this message:
 Message 730 by Phat, posted 08-29-2022 8:59 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18457
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 730 of 895 (897059)
08-29-2022 8:59 AM
Reply to: Message 729 by AZPaul3
08-29-2022 1:49 AM


Re: Something Positive
I suppose that watching our mousey little "Mr.Deity" could be construed as positive. He would annoy me more, but being an "Ex-Mormon" does not qualify as serious credentials anyway.
Now...if he were an ex-apologist debunking what he once tried to defend, I would likely feel less positive about his entertainment value.
This morning I was perusing Reddit...which I recently joined. They have some well thought out theological discussions between theists and atheists. The atheists are skilled at always interjecting enough doubt into the arguments so that the theists never win. Perhaps this is the way it was meant to be...

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 729 by AZPaul3, posted 08-29-2022 1:49 AM AZPaul3 has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 731 by Phat, posted 08-29-2022 9:06 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 732 by nwr, posted 08-29-2022 9:37 AM Phat has replied
 Message 844 by jar, posted 02-12-2023 7:56 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18457
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 731 of 895 (897060)
08-29-2022 9:06 AM
Reply to: Message 730 by Phat
08-29-2022 8:59 AM


I wish I could be positive
AZHonesty3 writes:
World news is not friendly these days and many, like me, are experiencing the existential dread that humanity seems to be ignoring.
I feel it too, though my critics say that I'm usually negative regarding the future rather than positive.
Poor Europe, though! I read this morning that they are experiencing the worst drought in 500 years! Combine that with the dire forecast regarding energy supply this winter and our always expanding global population and I genuinely worry about the future.
Perhaps our erudite "Way Of The Mister" will have some ready wisdom on hand to believe in.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 730 by Phat, posted 08-29-2022 8:59 AM Phat has not replied

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 6445
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 5.2


(3)
Message 732 of 895 (897061)
08-29-2022 9:37 AM
Reply to: Message 730 by Phat
08-29-2022 8:59 AM


Re: Something Positive
The atheists are skilled at always interjecting enough doubt into the arguments so that the theists never win.
That's not atheists injecting doubt. It is theists demonstrating that they have no supporting evidence.

Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 730 by Phat, posted 08-29-2022 8:59 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 733 by Phat, posted 08-29-2022 10:10 AM nwr has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18457
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 733 of 895 (897065)
08-29-2022 10:10 AM
Reply to: Message 732 by nwr
08-29-2022 9:37 AM


Re: Something Positive
Except that evidence is not required for belief. Belief can in fact be quite strong (albeit irrational) with no supporting evidence.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“A God without wrath brought men without sin into a Kingdom without judgment through the ministrations of a Christ without a Cross.”
H. Richard Niebuhr, The Kingdom of God in America

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 732 by nwr, posted 08-29-2022 9:37 AM nwr has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 734 by Theodoric, posted 08-29-2022 10:13 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 735 by ringo, posted 08-29-2022 1:31 PM Phat has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9371
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 734 of 895 (897066)
08-29-2022 10:13 AM
Reply to: Message 733 by Phat
08-29-2022 10:10 AM


Re: Something Positive
Again you miss the point.
Then why should anyone care about your beliefs if there is no evidence? The only difference between christianity and pastafarianism is that christianity was created millenia ago.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 733 by Phat, posted 08-29-2022 10:10 AM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 529 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 735 of 895 (897097)
08-29-2022 1:31 PM
Reply to: Message 733 by Phat
08-29-2022 10:10 AM


Re: Something Positive
Phat writes:
Except that evidence is not required for belief.
Jesus disagreed with you. (John 20)

"Oh no, They've gone and named my home St. Petersburg.
What's going on? Where are all the friends I had?
It's all wrong, I'm feeling lost like I just don't belong.
Give me back, give me back my Leningrad."
-- Leningrad Cowboys

This message is a reply to:
 Message 733 by Phat, posted 08-29-2022 10:10 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 736 by Phat, posted 08-29-2022 2:32 PM ringo has replied

  
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