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Author Topic:   The Trump Post-Presidency and Insurrection
dwise1
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Posts: 5974
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 111 of 438 (884320)
02-10-2021 11:28 AM
Reply to: Message 108 by jar
02-10-2021 10:13 AM


Re: Trump defense team pleads insanity
I rather liked his one lawyer's argument: So arrest and try Trump on criminal charges.
As that lawyer said, the DOJ knows what to do with people like that.
Edited by dwise1, : Added line

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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5974
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 148 of 438 (884491)
02-22-2021 11:36 AM


Where does Q-Anon Get Their Nonsense From?
I've come to a realization, but I want to put it out there as kind of a "Request for Comment" (RFC, though this has nothing to do with networking protocols).
Whenever we hear Q-Anon claims expressed, we're left in bewilderment of where they could be getting such nonsense from. And what kind of sick minds could dream up such horrors (the answer turns out to be Christian minds -- see below for the centuries-old "blood libel").
A few months ago I heard a Q-Anon claim being quoted verbatim, in which they explicitly named where these aliens who are ruling us are operating from: Deep Space Nine! That was an epiphany for me.
It certainly appears that they're getting this nonsense from decades, even centuries (again with the blood libel already!), of popular fiction, most recenly including TV shows and movies. Like DS9. Or V (1980's TV SciFi). And the much gorier horror stuff from decades of cheap gore movies at the drive-in.
Let's look at a few.
Obviously, the most ridiculously sadistic and gory rumors come straight out of all those cheap horror movies, the cheaper the gorier.
 
And lizard people posing as humans and ruling us? Yeah, I also remember V from the 80's. The first miniseries was rather good and the second was OK. By the time they got to the regular series, not so good but rather increasingly hokey. "V" stood at first for "visitors", aliens making contact with us in order to help us, but then the Resistance turned it around to mean "victory." It turns out that the aliens were looking to steal earth's water, plus they looked at us as a food source. At first, it was "They look just like us!", but those were just disguises. Instead, they were reptilian, feeding by swallowing their gerbils whole (there were a few scenes of that -- us they'd have to slice and dice first).
 
And space lasers? Lots of cheap and non-existent (or even impossible) unobtainium movie/TV/cartoon tech. Like SPECTRE's diamond-encrusted space laser in Diamonds are Forever.
However, in connection with those "Jewish space lasers", I also heard reference to "broadcast power" satellites. I don't know whether that had ever made it to the B movies or TV, but most space enthusiasts from the 80's should recognize that tech immediately. One advocate for space colonies was a physicist, Gerard K. O'Neill (with two ells while holding up three fingers, a recurring Stargate SG-1 joke by Col. Jack O'Neill -- and yes, in that Wikipedia photo he is sporting a Vulcan haircut completely with pointed sideburns). He proposed building space colonies which are departed from the old standard "space wheel" by designing them as rotating spheres where you lived on the inner surface of the sphere -- lots of living surface area along with artificial gravity (the designs of Babylon 4 and Babylon 5 were based on his ideas). Construction material would be mined from the moon (which has a lot of bauxite, the ore for aluminum) launched with linear accelerator mass drivers and the power would come from orbiting solar power stations. Also, forerunners of the Belters would scout the Asteroid Belt for raw resources and attach linear accelerator mass drivers to asteroids to propel them into a lower orbit where we could mine them at our leisure.
And the space colony economy would be based on cheap solar power that would be beamed down to receiver stations on the earth's surface through microwave transmissions. Which was the "smoking gun" (or Easter egg) I heard in a Q-Anon reference to those "space lasers" (from Rep. Greene of GA, I seem to recall).
 
Now, what about kidnapping children in order to drink their blood? That one is quite literally Christianity at its worst. It goes back nearly two millennia and is an anti-Jewish trope that apparently we will never be rid of. Besides "blook libel, it is also known as "ritual murder libel" and "blood accusation". And it is entirely Christianin origin, propogation, and as a standard excuse of Christians to conduct vicious pogroms in order to slaughter Jews (whereas their leaders were undoubtedly more interested in eliminating their debts by eliminating their debtors). How very Christian!
When my friend and I traveled to Germany a few years ago, I remember sitting in the train looking at the "nächster Halt" (sounds like "nexter Halt") scrolling announcement for Bacharach. I remember that because I saw it come up on the screen and my mind immediately read it like the singer, Burt (I read in whole words, not by sounding it out), but then the recorded voice gave it the German pronounciation which is quite different. It's a medieval town that's pretty well preserved, so it's a popular tourist destination. That was the first time I had ever seen Stolpersteine, "stumbling stones." They replace individual cobblestones in front of a house that had been owned or occupied by Jews leading into the Holocaust with a gold-colored metal mini-plaque engraved with the person's name, when they were arrested or rounded up, and when and where they died or were murdered ("ermordet" is very specifically used).
It turns out that Bacharach has a very bloody history because of the blood libel. From Bacharach's page (bold added):
quote:
Widely visible is the Wernerkapelle, a Rheinromantik landmark of the town, lying on the way up to Stahleck Castle from the town. It is the expanded Kunibertkapelle, and is still an unfinished Gothic ruin today. Its namesake is Werner of Oberwesel, known in connection with pogroms triggered by his death. According to the Christian blood libel, which was typical of the times, a 16-year-old Werner was murdered on Maundy Thursday 1287 by members of the local Jewish community, who then used his blood for Passover observances. On the grounds of this alleged ritual murder, there arose an anti-Semitic mob who waged a pogrom, wiping out Jewish communities in the Middle and Lower Rhine and Moselle regions. In folk Christianity arose the cult of Werner, which was only stricken from the Bishopric of Trier calendar in 1963.
BTW, Jewish dietary law forbids the consumption of blood. Kosher butchering tradition and practices aim to evacuate as much of the animal's blood as is possible. Ever wonder why Kosher salt is kosher? Because its large grains are better for drawing blood out of the meat. Nu?
And yet, the blood libel persisted among Christians.
When I transferred to a four-year, one of my first classes was in "Rabbinic Literature" with Rabbi Kalir. In one lecture he covered the origin of a Seder custom.
Have you ever attended a Seder, a Passover dinner? Elijah is thought to have never died, having been taken up into Heaven while still alive, so he could still be present on earth. At every Seder, a place is set for Elijah should he choose to visit and at one point the host or hostess goes to open the front door to let Elijah in, should he just happen to be in the neighborhood.
As Rabbi Kalir taught us, that custom came directly from the blood libel. He told us that Christians believed that Jews drank blood in their "secret Jewish rituals" and would abduct and murder Christian children in order to drain them of their blood for those rituals. Opening the door for Elijah was the Jewish community's attempt to demonstrate to everybody that they had nothing whatsoever to hide.
So this Q-Anon nonsense about killing children and drinking their blood is nothing more that old recycled Christian nonsense. The horrific "details" come from sick minds drawing from sick horror movies.
 
Am I on the right track with this analysis?

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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5974
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 152 of 438 (884518)
02-22-2021 8:12 PM
Reply to: Message 150 by Taq
02-22-2021 7:10 PM


Re: The First Three Days
Several of those GOP senators who voted not guilty then went on to say that Trump very obviously and definitely is responsible for the insurrectionist attack on the Capitol. Eg, McConnell, "no question about it."
They know full well that he's guilty, but they chose to hide behind the cowardly lie that they didn't have jurisdiction because he's no longer in office. That lie was disproven on the very first day before the trial actually started.

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dwise1
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Posts: 5974
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.6


(2)
Message 154 of 438 (893968)
04-26-2022 9:17 AM
Reply to: Message 153 by Percy
04-26-2022 7:57 AM


Re: All The Chiefs Texts
To paraphrase the most famous line in Jaws: "We're going to need a bigger yardarm." To hang all these mutineers and traitors from.

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dwise1
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Posts: 5974
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.6


(2)
Message 183 of 438 (896514)
08-12-2022 1:36 AM
Reply to: Message 181 by Theodoric
08-08-2022 9:40 PM


Re: Wow!
Unfortunately, the timing of the serving of the warrant at Mar-a-Lago could have been much better.
They should have waited until Trump was there so that they could have had him standing out in the parking lot in his underwear waiting for them to complete their search.

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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5974
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.6


(1)
Message 194 of 438 (896932)
08-26-2022 7:27 PM
Reply to: Message 193 by Percy
08-26-2022 5:23 PM


Re: "It is all politcs!"
On the matter of who could have provided the information to law enforcement, a guest on Joy Reid (MSNBC) just now described that whoever it was had to have had intimate knowledge of the layout of the place, so it could have been friends, family members, or staff.
Staff. With all the fear and hate mongering MAGAts have used about "illegals are taking your jobs away", Trump's staffing practices traditionally involve employing illegals, including recruiting them from overseas. Furthermore, his businesses are known to create falsified documentation for those workers, including the creation of false social security numbers.
But then they go that extra step which is standing operating procedure (SOP) for human traffickers: they take possession of those workers' documentation in order to exert control over those workers, basically in order to enslave them. The same practice as recruiting you to work in another country, then they take your passport away from you so you cannot leave.
Could some of that information about Trump's Espionage Act violations have come from one of his human trafficking victims? Curious minds want to know.

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dwise1
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Posts: 5974
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 256 of 438 (911002)
05-31-2023 11:47 PM


How to Handle Trump's Incarceration?
Just throwing some questions out there, hoping that someone knows enough law.
It's pretty much a forgone conclusion that the multiple investigations into Trump's flagrant criminal activities will result in more indictments and prosecutions which are very likely to result in convictions. So what then? What are our options?
If he gets a prison sentence/sentences, a big problem will concern the poor Secret Service agents who have to accompany him in prison in order to protect him, including accompanying him in the showers to keep him from getting shanked.
Alternatives I've heard to shield those agents from such extremely onerous duty included placing Trump under house arrest. Major problems with house arrest including it being too light a sentence since he would just continue as he has been living, also foreign interests would still have access to him, etc. If house arrest would include restriction to quarters, then the Secret Service agent would also have to act as his jailor, something for which I'm sure they are not trained and may not even be empowered to do. And given the Secret Service's actions surrounding the insurrection (including the massive destruction of electronic information from agents' phones, which smacks of cover-up), would we even be able to trust that service to enforce the terms of Trump's sentence? And if he is convicted in Georgia, how will that be coordinated with his convictions for federal crimes? I'm sure that there are protocols and case law to give direction there, but if the Georgia judge were to sentence Trump to house arrest, how would they enforce that sentence if he lives out-of-state?
One solution that I haven't heard mentioned would be to isolate him from the general population. When I'm feeling facetious, I would recommend that he go to a Supermax prison where he would spend 23 hours of the day alone in his cell and have one hour of exercise, alone. Some may consider that punishment to be too extreme and cruel, but I'm sure that some would agree with it. There can also be arrangements such as for those in protective custody -- such as depicted in The Valachi Papers (1972) where Joe Valachi had been marked for assassination after having testified against the mob so he stayed in a private cell with a kitchen and other creature comforts since there was nowhere that he would be safe.
But another solution that has me curious is inspired by suggestions of what to do about Gen. Michael Flynn (ret.). One suggestion is that he be recalled to active duty and undergo a court martial which would result in a less-than-honorable discharge that would disqualify him for retirement benefits.
This is my main legal question: are there any provisions for stripping an ex-President of his retirement benefits? If Trump lost his retirement benefits, that should include Secret Service protection, I would assume. There is no legal precedence that I am aware of, but are there nonetheless laws or regulations that would apply?
For example, the Secret Service has regulations and policies governing its operations, jurisdiction, etc. Might those regulations or policies determine who is entitled to protection, or even specify what would disqualify a subject from receiving protection services?
Does anybody know about these matters?

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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5974
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 263 of 438 (911018)
06-01-2023 4:37 PM
Reply to: Message 260 by Theodoric
06-01-2023 8:22 AM


Re: How to Handle Trump's Incarceration?
So there is a specific law involved. Next step would be to test that law in court. I don't foresee that challenge being made. Maybe unless it conflicts with laws regulating the Secret Service.
Another issue that bothers me is how to handle Trump's funeral. He will die eventually, as we all will.
One of the first things that an incoming President does is to make plans for his funeral. Remember how he kept pushing for a huge military parade patterned after what he had seen in France and probably also inspired by the military parades in Red Square. He really wanted his tanks and flyovers; I think he even wanted to wear a gaudy uniform.
How will we be able to prevent that travesty?

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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5974
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.6


Message 266 of 438 (911021)
06-01-2023 8:13 PM
Reply to: Message 265 by Percy
06-01-2023 6:46 PM


Re: How to Handle Trump's Incarceration?
To add "shall not have been convicted of a felony after leaving office" would require an act of Congress.
True.
And I would assume that there must be a basic legal principle (complete with a Latin term) that one cannot be tried for violating a law or an amendment to a law before that law/amendment had come into effect. Otherwise, we would see legislatures creating retroactive laws in order to target and punish someone they don't like[/i]. The same or related principle would uphold convictions for violation of a law before that law was reversed (eg, convictions for possession of marijuana laws that have since been eliminated) such that expunging of those convictions require explicit legal action.
Looks like yet another case of Trump's actions leading to laws against future actions instead of dealing with Trump.
Yes, if Trump went to prison he would have an SS detail, but the prison would be one of those white collar minimum security prisons also referred to as camps or Club Fed.
For his federal crimes, yes, but those 34 felony counts you cite are under state law, so conviction and sentence of those counts would be under New York law, not under federal law. Indictment, conviction, and sentencing for violating Georgia state law would place him under the Georgia state corrections system. It would take a federal conviction to land him in "Club Fed" and not on a deep south chain gang (yeah, I know that he would be deemed too old and infirm for most hard labor).
Of course, he would not be the first to be convicted under both state and federal laws, so there should be well established case law for determining whether he would go to a state or federal prison. I would assume that federal prison would be chosen over state. In that case, if he's convicted under state law first, he might be motivated to plead guilty on the federal charges (yes, his ego would never allow him to make a smart move).
And conviction for espionage and seditious conspiracy or insurrection should be considered too grave to warrant such leniency as going to Club Fed and not to a higher-security prison like Leavenworth.
And even though Trump's opinion is that traitors should be executed, that will not happen in this case. Which is just as good, since his mere presence would forever sully the name of the ship whose yardarm was used.

This message is a reply to:
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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5974
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.6


(1)
Message 269 of 438 (911089)
06-09-2023 2:22 AM
Reply to: Message 268 by Tanypteryx
06-08-2023 11:36 PM


Re: Trump indicted again
The indictment is sealed, so we won't know exactly what he is being charged with until his arraignment on Tuesday. Until then, all we can do is to speculate based on everything that has entered into the public record.
Listening to MSNBC on the radio on my way home from dance class (I have Sirius XM; that would have been early in "Last Word"), I heard someone talking about Trump's legal team. The main point being made was that for a case like this Trump would need the best legal team with the best criminal defense lawyers, but instead we're seeing D-list lawyers.
Now for my opinion not based on that commentary.
I feel that Trump will be very hard-pressed to find proper legal defense. He has burned through all the good lawyers (from my limited personal perspective), not paying them, turning them into accomplices, endangering their legal careers (MAGA stands for "Making Attorneys Get Attorneys"), and proving himself to be the singularly worst client imaginable. For every legal argument and defense narrative they try to devise, Trump just goes out in public media and blows up his own possible defenses. He's his own best witness for the prosecution and a nightmare for his defense team.
No good lawyer would want to have anything to do with him. A professional challenge is one thing, but cutting your own throat is entirely different. I think that Trump has eliminated most of his options.
As I recall from a couple/few years ago, Trump needed a high-power lawyer. It was difficult, but he found one. The lawyer required that Trump pay him for his services in full and up front. That lawyer knew Trump's record for not paying. As I recall, that lawyer left Trump's case early on. The main thing that I remember was the lawyer's demand for payment in full up front, not trusting Trump to pay a submitted bill.
 
My son just finished his second year of law school. He had voted for Trump in 2016 -- I don't know about after that because we avoid politics.
When I see him (he's East Coast, I'm West Coast), I want to warn him against ever going to work for Trump. My son will not be able to afford the attorney's fees.

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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5974
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.6


(2)
Message 285 of 438 (911108)
06-10-2023 12:56 PM
Reply to: Message 283 by Phat
06-10-2023 11:48 AM


Re: It Remains To Be Seen How Hard They Can Nail Him
I did a forum search. The only hits were DrJones* using it in this topic three times without explanation * and this your question.
FOOTNOTE *
Id est (I.e.), the guideline I had been taught for military writing was that the first time you use an abbreviation or acronym you write it out in full followed by the abbreviation/acronym in parentheses, after which you can simply use the abbreviation/acronym; exempli gratia (e.g.), "F**ked Up Beyond All Recognition (FUBAR)", "Situation Normal, All F**ked Up (SNAFU)".
A Google search yielded several meanings for TDSS, none of which had anything to do with "Trump" (which the "T" obviously stands for), but there are hits for "TDS":
quote:
Trump derangement syndrome (TDS) is a pejorative term, usually for criticism or negative reactions to former United States president Donald Trump that are perceived to be irrational, and presumed to have little regard towards Trump's actual policy positions, or actions undertaken by his administration. The term has mainly been used by Trump supporters to discredit criticism of his actions, as a way of reframing the discussion by suggesting that his opponents are incapable of accurately perceiving the world. Politico co-founder John Harris wrote that TDS is related to gaslighting, "another psychological concept in vogue in the Trump era." Journalists have used the term to call for restraint when judging Trump's statements and actions.
The problem is that Trump keeps flaunting his criminality in public resulting in a public reaction calling for him to be brought to justice. Extreme corruption (eg, sucking the Secret Service budget dry by forcing the government to pay more than full price for his golf trips to his own resorts (the classic example of corruption which everybody else in the government, even military members, are constantly advised to avoid)), violating national security (potentially including having sold military secrets to foreign interests -- eg, $2 billion being paid to Kushner), leading a coup to overthrow the government, treasonous actions (while perhaps not meeting the strict legal definition of treason, his persistent conduct has been and continues to be what even the most casual of observers would immediately recognize and deem to be treasonous), wire fraud, probable blackmail (why else would nearly all his early opponents like Lindsey Graham abruptly turn into a remora-like sycophant after just one short private meeting?), etc.
Myself, I received nearly four decades of training in the classification system and in the handling of classified materials. I have also served as a custodian of classified materials and received the additional training commensurate with that role. If I, or anyone else, had done less than a thousandth of what Trump had done willfully, I would have been arrested and locked up immediately. So, speaking personally, why the fuck is he still walking around free? Nobody is above the law!
So while TDS is used by MAGAts and their enablers against us normals, they also suffer from a far greater derangement, one which blinds them to the reality of what has been and is going on, to lead them to fanatically defend that gross criminal. To quote Holy Roman Emperor Joseph II: "I mean, just look at it!"
I think that DrJones* has proposed a derivative abbreviation to describe MAGAts' fanatical selective blindness and selective stupidity regarding their God, The Orange Calf.
I don't know what that second "S" is supposed to mean, so he will need to tell us. But the intended meaning and use of TDSS is clear.
PS
About a month ago a fanatical MAGAt was on the radio and she did say something that I fully agreed with (and cheered when I heard it): traitors should be hanged. Of course we will never see Trump swinging from the yardarm, but that sight would still be morally fulfilling.
ABE:
DrJones* replied while I was writing.
His actual definition says basically the same thing.
A few years ago I heard about a medical procedure that MAGAts would benefit from greatly. I forget what it was called, but you replace the sternum with clear plastic. That way, when a MAGAt is walking he would be able to see where he's going.

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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5974
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.6


(2)
Message 289 of 438 (912409)
08-29-2023 8:14 PM


Hunters (Prime -- SPOILER)
In a streaming TV show, I saw what should be the ideal punishment for Trump.
It was almost as if they had written that scene with Trump in mind.
First a little background.
One afternoon a couple decades ago on Turner Classics, they showed the 1940 John Wayne movie, Dark Command, with a panel of historians to discuss the film. The movie is ostensibly about Quantrill's Raid on Lawrence, KS, (AKA the Lawrence Massacre) on 21 August 1863 -- my great-great-grandfather was murdered in that raid and my great-grandfather, two years old at the time, escaped a fatal head wound by a very small fraction of an inch (so I nearly didn't make it here today).
Instead of what had actually happened, the film depicted Northerners and Southerners living in the town divided by their differences successfully uniting against the common enemy, Quantrill, saving the town. This complete reversal of history prompted one member of the panel to observe that every period film is written for two different times: for the time the film is set in and for the present day. In the case of this film, its then-present-day purpose was to emulate what the nation would need to do as WWII was fast approaching: forget our regional differences and unite together to fight a common enemy.
I keep remembering that historian's statement, especially at the end of the Amazon Prime series called Hunters:
quote:
It follows a diverse band of Nazi hunters living in 1977 New York City who discover that numerous escaped Nazi officers are conspiring to create a Fourth Reich in the United States. A parallel plot element is the discovery of Operation Paperclip, the U.S. government operation relocating German scientists (many of them Nazis) to the U.S.
 
SPOILER ALERT!!!
I am about to give away the final scene, so if you have not watched the series to the end then turn away now!
SPOILER ALERT!!!
 
[voice=Joan Rivers]Can we talk?[/voice]
The end of the first season reveals that Hitler and Eva had escaped to South America where they are masterminding the Fourth Reich. At the end of the second season, Hitler has been captured and is put on trial.
Throughout the trial, Hitler revels in all the attention that he's getting, but in the end he is sitting alone in his stark cell. When the guard shoves his meal plate through the hole in the door addressing him only by his number, Hitler cries out in anguish, "Weißt du nicht, wer ich bin?" ("Don't you know who I am?")
Watching that, I remembered what that historian said. I think that the ending was meant to be a dig at Trump and his fate to be locked up for the rest of his life in anonymity. Like Hitler, Trump craves attention and recognition (more so even), so being reduced to a number that nobody takes any notice of would be a fitting punishment.

  
dwise1
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Posts: 5974
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 3.6


(1)
Message 436 of 438 (916314)
02-29-2024 8:18 PM
Reply to: Message 427 by Omnivorous
02-28-2024 6:27 PM


Re: I was wondering...
I'm orthagonal. Everyone is wrong.
Self-contradictory. How could anyone be wrong if every axis is right?
Actually, I was angling for saying "angle" instead of "axis".
 
ABE:
Explanation for the non-mathematical minded.
Many coördinate systems are orthogonal, which means that each axis is at right angles to all the others.
For example, in a 2D space, the X and Y axes are at right angles (90°) to each other. In a 3D space, you add a Z axis which is at right angles to both the X and the Y axes. In nD space (for any integer value of n) each axis is at right angles to all the others even though our limited minds are incapable of visualizing that.

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