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Author Topic:   The Biden Presidency
Percy
Member
Posts: 22937
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 466 of 477 (914704)
01-29-2024 7:54 PM
Reply to: Message 465 by Theodoric
01-29-2024 3:26 PM


Re: President's visit to Wisconsin
You looked friendly and amiable, and like you belonged after the nod to the gentleman as he passed.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 465 by Theodoric, posted 01-29-2024 3:26 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 467 by Theodoric, posted 01-29-2024 10:33 PM Percy has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9489
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 6.0


Message 467 of 477 (914708)
01-29-2024 10:33 PM
Reply to: Message 466 by Percy
01-29-2024 7:54 PM


Re: President's visit to Wisconsin
That gentleman was Governor Walz of Minnesota.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 466 by Percy, posted 01-29-2024 7:54 PM Percy has not replied

  
AZPaul3
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Posts: 8654
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 6.6


Message 468 of 477 (914709)
01-29-2024 10:36 PM
Reply to: Message 462 by Theodoric
01-26-2024 5:24 PM


Re: President's visit to Wisconsin
So you got to see old Joe, watch and listen to him, real-time live? Nice beard.
If you care to share, Oh Bearded One, what are your impressions of this guy? Can he do another term?

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 462 by Theodoric, posted 01-26-2024 5:24 PM Theodoric has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 469 by Theodoric, posted 01-29-2024 10:40 PM AZPaul3 has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9489
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 6.0


(6)
Message 469 of 477 (914710)
01-29-2024 10:40 PM
Reply to: Message 468 by AZPaul3
01-29-2024 10:36 PM


Re: President's visit to Wisconsin
He is an old man. He is physically slow, but seemed sharp. What other choice do we have? Is he my first choice? No. Then again my first choice would not be elected. You dance with the one that brung ya. Let's get him elected and then deal with down the road.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 468 by AZPaul3, posted 01-29-2024 10:36 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 470 by AZPaul3, posted 01-29-2024 11:38 PM Theodoric has not replied
 Message 471 by Percy, posted 01-30-2024 7:25 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 8654
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 6.6


(3)
Message 470 of 477 (914711)
01-29-2024 11:38 PM
Reply to: Message 469 by Theodoric
01-29-2024 10:40 PM


Re: President's visit to Wisconsin
People have to remember that this president is supported by entire scads of advisors. As I read it Joe Biden is not alone in his office the way Trump was. He appears to have a strong staff and his decisions are not made with limited input. And his input comes from the whole of the Democratic Party.
Trump was advised by only his closest staff unless they disagreed with him then his only advice came from himself. And he is a proven liar, thief, rapist, insurrectionist who, quite openly, says that he will lead a revolution if defied.
No we don't have any choice.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 469 by Theodoric, posted 01-29-2024 10:40 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22937
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 6.8


(2)
Message 471 of 477 (914712)
01-30-2024 7:25 AM
Reply to: Message 469 by Theodoric
01-29-2024 10:40 PM


Re: President's visit to Wisconsin
Theodoric writes:
He is an old man. He is physically slow,...
My tennis group has gotten older through the years, and two of us are 82 now. One is still spry, the other has been slowed by double knee replacement, but both still hit a mean ball. Mentally, both are very sharp. Often they are placing the ball in the exact right spot.
At her 95th birthday party my grandmother played piano with the band.
Some people are old at a certain age, some aren't. How physically old is Biden? He exited the room very slowly, in stark contrast to running onto the stage after winning the 2020 election. Has he slowed that much, or does it just take a few steps for the joints to loosen up after standing stationary at a podium for a while? I don't know.
But what's important in a president is his mind. I don't think he's displayed much of his mind publicly during his presidency, though he seems to be gradually emerging from hibernation during this election year. As far as I can tell he's the same guy we elected nearly four years ago, just physically older and slower.
But age could strike him down at any time and then it will be President Kamala Harris. In my view she's been a disappointment, as has Joe. But when considering how a Democratic win in September might play out for the country over the following four years, it isn't a question of whether Biden or Harris would be a good president. The question is whether they'd be a better president than Trump, and of that there can be no doubt.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 469 by Theodoric, posted 01-29-2024 10:40 PM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 472 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-30-2024 10:58 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 4597
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 9.6


(4)
Message 472 of 477 (914715)
01-30-2024 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 471 by Percy
01-30-2024 7:25 AM


Re: President's visit to Wisconsin
But when considering how a Democratic win in September might play out for the country over the following four years, it isn't a question of whether Biden or Harris would be a good president.
Well, if they win in September, that should shut up everyone who thinks Biden is slow.

Stop Tzar Vladimir the Condemned!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python
One important characteristic of a theory is that it has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie
If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --Percy
The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq

This message is a reply to:
 Message 471 by Percy, posted 01-30-2024 7:25 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 473 by xongsmith, posted 01-30-2024 7:32 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2620
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009


Message 473 of 477 (914724)
01-30-2024 7:32 PM
Reply to: Message 472 by Tanypteryx
01-30-2024 10:58 AM


Re: President's visit to Wisconsin
Tanypteryx writes:
Well, if they win in September, that should shut up everyone who thinks Biden is slow.
LOL!!

"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."
Death to #TzarVladimirtheCondemned!
Enjoy every sandwich!

- xongsmith, 5.7dawkins scale


This message is a reply to:
 Message 472 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-30-2024 10:58 AM Tanypteryx has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22937
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 6.8


Message 474 of 477 (920873)
12-03-2024 10:02 AM


I think the pardoning of his son Hunter Biden is the biggest mistake of the Biden presidency. Yes, average citizens are rarely charged with the same crimes as Hunter Biden for the same violations (lying on a gun application form, non-payment of taxes that were subsequently paid), and especially not when known to be suffering under addiction. Yes, what's been done to Hunter Biden is obviously unfair.
But setting an example by refraining from taking advantage of power and privilege is even more important. It makes Biden no better than Trump, who will claim he's doing no more than his predecessor when he pardons the January 6th insurrectionists and any of his friends and family still in need of same. Rudy Giuliani comes to mind.
--Percy

Replies to this message:
 Message 475 by Rahvin, posted 12-03-2024 11:48 AM Percy has replied
 Message 477 by Taq, posted 12-04-2024 11:08 AM Percy has not replied

  
Rahvin
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Posts: 4061
Joined: 07-01-2005
Member Rating: 10.0


(3)
Message 475 of 477 (920879)
12-03-2024 11:48 AM
Reply to: Message 474 by Percy
12-03-2024 10:02 AM


Ill disagree.
Hunter was explicitly targeted for political reasons. The usual punishment for what he actually did is a plea deal. There was a plea deal, and it was derailed...by political opponents.
The power of the pardon is explicitly for addressing miscarriages of justice, which this absolutely 100% was. He should have had consequences, the plea deal should have happened, but the pardon power is all or nothing.
Biden's mistake was promising not to pardon him.
Meanwhile, Trump pardoned people of far worse crimes, and is now appointing the criminals he had to pardon to political and powerful positions. Biden is not showing that he's "the same" unless you sane-wash Trump's actions to the degree that our media loves to.
Biden's pardon was appropriate to address an actuall miscarriage of justice. Trump's pardons are simple "get out of jail free" cards to let his cronies escape consequences when their convictions were utterly fair and took special care to ensure no political bias. They are not the same. Noit at all.

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"Many that live deserve death. And some die that deserve life. Can you give it to them? Then be not too eager to deal out death in the name of justice, fearing for your own safety. Even the wise cannot see all ends." - Gandalf, J. R. R. Tolkien: The Lord Of the Rings

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This message is a reply to:
 Message 474 by Percy, posted 12-03-2024 10:02 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 476 by Percy, posted 12-03-2024 5:59 PM Rahvin has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22937
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 6.8


(1)
Message 476 of 477 (920880)
12-03-2024 5:59 PM
Reply to: Message 475 by Rahvin
12-03-2024 11:48 AM


Rahvin writes:
I'll disagree.
I'm going to do both.
Hunter was explicitly targeted for political reasons. The usual punishment for what he actually did is a plea deal. There was a plea deal, and it was derailed...by political opponents.
I agree. David Weiss, appointed in 2018 while Trump was still president to oversee the inquiry, was hostile toward Hunter Biden and pursued him relentlessly across all fronts. All he could find was a false answer on a firearm application, and non-payment of taxes, offenses committed while Hunter was a confirmed addict and which aren't normally pursued criminally.
But the reason the plea deal fell apart are complex, see Inside the Collapse of Hunter Biden’s Plea Deal - The New York Times. After Weiss decided not to pursue prosecution, two IRS agents came forward and accused the Justice Department of interfering with their investigation, but the very next paragraph begins this way, "Now, the I.R.S. agents and their Republican allies..." Why would I.R.S. agents, who'd you'd hope would be neutral politically about tax issues, have Republican allies? That doesn't sound anything close to unbiased. I.R.S. agents with Republican allies sound like the kind of agents who would exploit political vulnerabilities, like those of a president of the opposite party whose son was in legal hot water.
To me it seems very clear that Hunter Biden is the victim here, however sketchy his attempts to take financial advantage of being the president's son.
The power of the pardon is explicitly for addressing miscarriages of justice, which this absolutely 100% was. He should have had consequences, the plea deal should have happened, but the pardon power is all or nothing.
Half the country voted for Trump, and so it is likely that a very sizable portion of the country doesn't see Hunter Biden's treatment as a miscarriage of justice.
The pardon power isn't all or nothing. Pardons can be very specific in their application.
Biden's mistake was promising not to pardon him.
Agreed.
Meanwhile, Trump pardoned people of far worse crimes, and is now appointing the criminals he had to pardon to political and powerful positions.
Are you sure about that? I could only find one of possible significance, Charles Kushner, the father of Trump's son-in-law, Jared Kushner. Trump has selected him to serve as ambassador to France.
Biden is not showing that he's "the same" unless you sane-wash Trump's actions to the degree that our media loves to.
To quote Politico, "Joe Biden’s broad reprieve for his son gives the president-elect new rationale for even more expansive pardons than those he issued in his first term."
Biden's pardon was appropriate to address an actual miscarriage of justice. Trump's pardons are simple "get out of jail free" cards to let his cronies escape consequences when their convictions were utterly fair and took special care to ensure no political bias. They are not the same. Not at all.
What proportion of the country sees it as a miscarriage of justice, or sees the legal charges against Trump's people as political witch hunts?
All that being said, shortly after my earlier post I changed my mind and posted this comment to the Washington Post:
Percy:
While Hunter Biden's pardon is unprecedented, so is Trump's demonstrated penchant for vengeance. That Hunter Biden was charged with the crimes he was, when no normal citizen would be, is just more evidence of this.
So Joe Biden had to consider the strong possibility that once in office Trump would drive his Justice Department to charge Hunter Biden with additional serious crimes and that the persecution would just never end.
Joe Biden's judgment is not at fault here. He sized up the dangers of a Trump presidency to his family pretty accurately.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 475 by Rahvin, posted 12-03-2024 11:48 AM Rahvin has not replied

  
Taq
Member
Posts: 10297
Joined: 03-06-2009
Member Rating: 7.1


Message 477 of 477 (920882)
12-04-2024 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 474 by Percy
12-03-2024 10:02 AM


Percy writes:
But setting an example by refraining from taking advantage of power and privilege is even more important. It makes Biden no better than Trump, who will claim he's doing no more than his predecessor when he pardons the January 6th insurrectionists and any of his friends and family still in need of same. Rudy Giuliani comes to mind.
Hell will freeze over before Republicans are convinced to change their ways because of an example set by a Democrat.
It isn't the best look for Biden, but personally, I could care less. The whole situation turned into a political farce, so I have no problem with the pardon.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 474 by Percy, posted 12-03-2024 10:02 AM Percy has not replied

  
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