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Author Topic:   Belief Versus The Scientific Method
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Message 2 of 513 (885158)
03-25-2021 3:13 PM


Thread Copied from Proposed New Topics Forum
Thread copied here from the Belief Versus The Scientific Method thread in the Proposed New Topics forum.

  
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Message 34 of 513 (885317)
04-05-2021 9:31 AM
Reply to: Message 5 by Phat
03-25-2021 8:52 PM


Re: Forcing My Hand Towards Science
Phat writes:

First off, I'm a bit mad at Percy for placing this in the Science Forums as it insists that your evidence-based approach win by default.

The description on the https://www.evcforum.net/Forums.php page says:

quote:
Is Creationism science? Is evolution? What is the nature of science, and is either one really science?

That description is set in the context of the creation/evolution debate, but it otherwise seems pretty open ended. I've always thought this was the right forum to argue for other ways of knowing.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Phat, posted 03-25-2021 8:52 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
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Message 249 of 513 (890534)
01-07-2022 2:39 PM


Moderator Comment
This thread suddenly became very active a few days ago, so I scanned through the last few days of posts to see what was going on. I see drlove joined the thread on the 4th. Welcome.

Drlove's posts are widely varied. Many do seem purposefully trollish, others seem like sincere efforts at discussion, and many lie somewhere between. Many of his posts are very brief, and in those instances it is disappointing to see EvC treated like a texting app. And I wish the information-to-noise ratio of this thread weren't taking such a hit.

I feel like there would be a lot of value to exploring two things in this thread:

  1. What is a scientific theory?

  2. How does one know which scientists to listen to concerning the pandemic?

I've seen some excellent stabs at answering these questions, and my sense is that drlove has given them short shrift. I think it would be worthwhile if people were willing to try again, and I'll try to pitch in by noting where I think good information is being ignored.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

  
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Message 253 of 513 (890539)
01-07-2022 2:55 PM
Reply to: Message 252 by drlove
01-07-2022 2:49 PM


Re: Peanut Gallery dogpiles Phat
drlove writes:

Not sure why you try to drag all of science into it? The issue was how that the scientific method is not applicable for some aspects of what is called science today.
I think I cited a few examples.

It would probably be helpful if you could list those examples again.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 252 by drlove, posted 01-07-2022 2:49 PM drlove has replied

Replies to this message:
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Message 277 of 513 (890567)
01-08-2022 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 257 by drlove
01-07-2022 5:22 PM


Thank you for the summary.

If you have concerns or complaints about other members or about moderation they should taken to the Report Discussion Problems Here 4.0 thread and leave this thread to focus on its topic.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 257 by drlove, posted 01-07-2022 5:22 PM drlove has taken no action

  
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Message 278 of 513 (890568)
01-08-2022 10:04 AM
Reply to: Message 265 by drlove
01-08-2022 12:22 AM


Re: Peanut Gallery dogpiles Phat
drlove writes:

I did bring up the field of medical science and a few doctors representing that.

Checking all your posts where the word "doctor" or "doctors" appears, you mentioned only a single doctor, Dr. Robert Malone. It might be helpful if you were specific about the other doctors you're thinking of, since Dr. Malone has been pretty thorough in trashing his reputation.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 265 by drlove, posted 01-08-2022 12:22 AM drlove has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 282 by drlove, posted 01-08-2022 1:46 PM Admin has replied

  
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Message 285 of 513 (890578)
01-08-2022 2:12 PM
Reply to: Message 282 by drlove
01-08-2022 1:46 PM


Re: Peanut Gallery dogpiles Phat
Thank you for the additional information.

I'm not part of the discussion, just an admin. You can direct discussion related questions to me if you like, such as about my use of the word "trashed" in association with Dr. Malone's reputation, but I won't usually respond because the goal for moderators is to avoid becoming part the discussion.

Moderators try to be neutral, but they don't exist in a vacuum. They try to draw upon generally accepted information. For an obvious example, in a discussion where one of the participants is a neo-Nazi, moderators are not obliged to avoid mentioning Hitler's anti-semitism in the name of neutrality.

If you think a moderator has stepped outside acceptable bounds then the place to file complaints is the Report Discussion Problems Here 4.0 thread.

Edited by Admin, : Grammar.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 282 by drlove, posted 01-08-2022 1:46 PM drlove has replied

Replies to this message:
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Message 296 of 513 (890594)
01-08-2022 3:17 PM


Moderator Request
I like to see the heat turned down and the focus changed to supporting claims with facts.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

  
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Message 302 of 513 (890600)
01-08-2022 3:38 PM


Moderator Request
Some posts are descending into incoherence. Please make your claims clear and insure that they have factual support.

--Percy
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Message 305 of 513 (890604)
01-08-2022 3:53 PM
Reply to: Message 303 by drlove
01-08-2022 3:47 PM


Moderator Warning
This is not helpful. Please try to be constructive.

AbE: I see you edited your post. Thank you.

Edited by Admin, : AbE.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 303 by drlove, posted 01-08-2022 3:47 PM drlove has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 306 by drlove, posted 01-08-2022 3:55 PM Admin has replied

  
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Message 308 of 513 (890609)
01-08-2022 4:04 PM
Reply to: Message 306 by drlove
01-08-2022 3:55 PM


Re: Moderator Warning
drlove writes:

It would be helpful if you said who you are talking about.

Message 302 is a general reply addressed to no one specifically, as can be seen by the fact that there is no "reply to".

Message 305 was addressed to you specifically when your Message 303 replied to AZPaul3 with no content, just a mocking copy of my own general request:

drlove in Message 303 writes:

You're descending into incoherence. Please make your claims clear and insure that they have factual support.

You're instigating, doing what is sometimes called lobbing hand grenades. Please stop.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 306 by drlove, posted 01-08-2022 3:55 PM drlove has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 309 by drlove, posted 01-08-2022 4:11 PM Admin has replied

  
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Message 311 of 513 (890613)
01-08-2022 4:38 PM
Reply to: Message 309 by drlove
01-08-2022 4:11 PM


drlove writes:

Post 302 was supposed to reply to message 301. I addressed the points in that post.

You're obviously not familiar with the way this board works. Look in the upper right hand corner of this message. You'll see a notation that says "Reply to: Message 309 by drlove". That's because this message is a reply to your Message 309. Now look in the upper right hand corner of Message 302. There's nothing there. That's because it's not a reply to anyone in particular. It's what's called a general reply. If you look near the upper right or bottom left of any message page you'll see a General Reply button. When I posted my message to the thread I used the General Reply button. The message was to the thread in general.

You seem to be suggesting that I report it when people use demon talk and lob firebrands, rather than gently responding in kind in a far less offensive way.

I'm suggesting nothing of the sort. That's not a reasonable interpretation of anything I said. I saw some speculating that perhaps English isn't your native language. Is that the case?

In that case the whole discussion would be probably needed, since there are few if any posters that can be civil or support their vacuous and rude little tirades. Once again, I see none of them are addressed by mods here.

My request was addressed generally. I was not addressing you, but you replied to AZPaul3 with a cut-n-paste of my request. That was very provocative and instigative and tended to confirm my suspicions that you're here to stir the pot rather than contribute to constructive discussion.

People who want to instigate and raise the ire of others have so wide a variety of tactics at their disposal that they couldn't possibly be fully enumerated and I won't try. I'm not going to give you a list of do's and don'ts. Either participate constructively, something that's not hard to figure out how to do, or I'll start employing the board's enforcement mechanisms.

Please, no replies to this message.

Edited by Admin, : Grammar.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 309 by drlove, posted 01-08-2022 4:11 PM drlove has taken no action

  
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Message 312 of 513 (890614)
01-08-2022 4:39 PM
Reply to: Message 310 by AZPaul3
01-08-2022 4:16 PM


Re: Peanut Gallery dogpiles Phat
AZPaul3 writes:

...you fucking lying nazi.

This isn't helpful.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 310 by AZPaul3, posted 01-08-2022 4:16 PM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
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Message 326 of 513 (890643)
01-09-2022 9:27 AM


Moderator Request
Someone argued that providing links didn't mean much because others could find links arguing the opposite. This is a very astute argument, and the issue was long ago institutionalized in the Forum Guidelines:

  1. Bare links with no supporting discussion should be avoided. Make the argument in your own words and use links as supporting references.

It might be helpful if someone explained some things about vaccine and covid:

  • How do vaccines work (I've observed what seems to be a lack of understanding on the part of some of what breakthrough infections mean, which requires an understanding of how vaccines actually work)?

  • How do we know the covid vaccines work?

  • How do we know the unvaccinated are catching and dying from covid at a much higher rate than the vaccinated?

I am placing the onus of proof on those who believe in vaccines. If they work and are effective, then the evidence should be out there. For an example of what I don't think is proof or effective argument, referencing Fauci saying, "We know the vaccines work," isn't an approach that I view as appropriate. This is an example of the fallacy of argument from authority. Please avoid this and other obvious fallacies.

Please use facts, evidence, reason and argumentation, and only use links as supporting references. We try to discourage "argument via link" here.


--Percy
EvC Forum Director

  
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Posts: 12807
From: EvC Forum
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Message 327 of 513 (890644)
01-09-2022 9:31 AM
Reply to: Message 325 by AZPaul3
01-09-2022 9:19 AM


Re: Peanut Gallery dogpiles Phat
AZPaul3 writes:

God you are so ignorant.

I'd like to ask you to back off a little more. Whether your assessment carries any truth should become apparent through your argumentation. The last part of rule 10 of the Forum Guidelines applies here:

  1. The sincerely held beliefs of other members deserve your respect. Please keep discussion civil. Argue the position, not the person.

--Percy
EvC Forum Director

This message is a reply to:
 Message 325 by AZPaul3, posted 01-09-2022 9:19 AM AZPaul3 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 331 by AZPaul3, posted 01-09-2022 11:16 AM Admin has seen this message

  
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