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Author Topic:   Belief Versus The Scientific Method
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7333
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


(4)
Message 332 of 513 (890649)
01-09-2022 11:25 AM
Reply to: Message 322 by drlove
01-09-2022 3:06 AM


To question you must understand
People who shout that we should question the science tend to be those that do not understand the science. Do you really think a layman at their computer at home has the capability to question the VAST majority of scientific authorities on a subject? Most people at home can not even conceive what they do not know.
Promoting the idea that every day people should question the scientific consensus is one of the stupidest arguments I have heard. People can question the scientific consensus when they present a scientific argument against the consensus and have experts in the field agree with them. Until then they have nothing.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 322 by drlove, posted 01-09-2022 3:06 AM drlove has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 335 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-09-2022 2:33 PM Theodoric has replied
 Message 344 by drlove, posted 01-09-2022 3:20 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7333
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 360 of 513 (890746)
01-10-2022 2:35 PM
Reply to: Message 335 by Tanypteryx
01-09-2022 2:33 PM


Re: To question you must understand
Took a break. It lasted a while.
Doing well. My COVID isolation ends tomorrow. Whole family tested positive Thankfully we are all vaccinated. Our 12 and 15-year-old boys were over it in a day. My wife and sister-in-law had what equated to a mild cold. I was a little worse, maybe mid-range cold. Then again I turn 60 this year and have a couple comorbidities.
Great expansion on the arguments I made. A key s that the anti-science crowd does not even understand what they do not know. That they think they can legitimately question the scientific experts is hubris and folly. Dunning-Kruger at it's ulitmate.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 335 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-09-2022 2:33 PM Tanypteryx has taken no action

Replies to this message:
 Message 363 by jar, posted 01-10-2022 2:46 PM Theodoric has taken no action
 Message 372 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 2:59 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7333
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 361 of 513 (890747)
01-10-2022 2:37 PM
Reply to: Message 336 by drlove
01-09-2022 2:36 PM


Re: belief vs unbelief
Please provide evidence of those that died from the vax. Please provide evidence for "millions that had bad effects" from the vaccine.

[qs]Some experts suggest that the actual number may be 20 times higher since true stats are not kept or available. Other estimates are that the numbers are at least 5 times higher.[qs]Source?

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 336 by drlove, posted 01-09-2022 2:36 PM drlove has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 374 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 3:06 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7333
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 362 of 513 (890749)
01-10-2022 2:41 PM
Reply to: Message 338 by drlove
01-09-2022 2:46 PM


Re: Covid-19 death rate between vaccinated vs un-vaccinated by nation.
I say actual because it is commonly reported that the forms are not filled out, since they are time consuming and cumbersome.

Source
In some places it is admitted the majority of hospitalized are vaccinated.

Source?
You make a lot of claims. But as of yet I don't see any source or data for these claims.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 338 by drlove, posted 01-09-2022 2:46 PM drlove has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 376 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 3:12 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7333
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 364 of 513 (890751)
01-10-2022 2:47 PM
Reply to: Message 340 by drlove
01-09-2022 2:56 PM


Do you have any sources for what you claim?
The concerns are the plethora of young atheletes dropping dead or having heart attacks mid game after having been vaccinated.

Source?

They also may note that there are endless booster shots being mandated and prepared, so that we know they basically don't really do much good.

Do you even know the basics of medicine and virology? Anything about evolution? The vaccines are working, that is why there is a need for new ones. As the virus changes protection wanes. It is that simple. I am just getting over COVID since I am vaxed and boosted it was very minor. People without the vaccine are more likely to die and/or have serious complications.

and there are people of science on both sides of the issue. You don't get to wave them all away and declare only those with your belief as 'true'.

And you don't get to make such claims without an actual source.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 340 by drlove, posted 01-09-2022 2:56 PM drlove has taken no action

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7333
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 365 of 513 (890752)
01-10-2022 2:50 PM
Reply to: Message 344 by drlove
01-09-2022 3:20 PM


Re: To question you must understand
Show us your facts. You have not shown anything so far. All you have done is rant, spout and hand wave. The hallmark of those that have no evidence. The sign of a troll.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 344 by drlove, posted 01-09-2022 3:20 PM drlove has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 377 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 3:15 PM Theodoric has taken no action

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7333
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 366 of 513 (890753)
01-10-2022 2:51 PM
Reply to: Message 350 by Tanypteryx
01-09-2022 3:45 PM


Re: To question you must understand
When ya got nothing throw out a strawman.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 350 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-09-2022 3:45 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 381 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-10-2022 3:23 PM Theodoric has taken no action

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7333
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 368 of 513 (890755)
01-10-2022 2:54 PM
Reply to: Message 353 by drlove
01-10-2022 1:35 AM


Re: To question you must understand
That is not at all what I said. You just thought you would make a strawman to knock down. More evidence you are dishonest and have no evidence for any of your claims.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 353 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 1:35 AM drlove has taken no action

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7333
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 373 of 513 (890761)
01-10-2022 3:02 PM
Reply to: Message 367 by drlove
01-10-2022 2:52 PM


The issue is that there are people, a whole lot of people and a lot of studies and etc that are on different sides of the matter.

If so present them.
What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.

Alex Berenson? Fucking Alex Berenson? Are you fucking serious?
He is an unmitigated, verified liar.
Wiki has sources pointing at his lies.

quote:
During the coronavirus pandemic, Berenson appeared frequently in American right-wing media, spreading false claims about COVID-19 and its vaccines.[2] He spent much of the pandemic arguing that its seriousness was overblown; once COVID-19 vaccines were rolled out, he made false claims about the safety and effectiveness of vaccines.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alex_Berenson

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 367 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 2:52 PM drlove has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 378 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 3:19 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7333
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 375 of 513 (890763)
01-10-2022 3:06 PM
Reply to: Message 372 by drlove
01-10-2022 2:59 PM


Re: To question you must understand
No, what is sad is your claim that actual scientists support your claims, but provide no facts, data, or sources to back your claim. Every time you do try to provide something you are shown why it is not what you claim it is.
You are willfully ignorant and seem to like it that way. Amazes me that you think your internet "research" gives you the authority to question the top virologists and epidemiologists in the world. The hubris is stunning.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 372 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 2:59 PM drlove has taken no action

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7333
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 379 of 513 (890768)
01-10-2022 3:20 PM
Reply to: Message 374 by drlove
01-10-2022 3:06 PM


Re: belief vs unbelief
This is evidence of nothing. Correlation does not equal causation. They themselves admit they have no idea if these numbers are higher than other years.
Easy way to tell this is all bullshit fear mongering.
The first guy is from Portugal he died on January 3. ON February 12 Portugal was still in its first phase. He was not eligible for the vaccine.
Vaccine roll out – What you need to know
2nd guy was not eligible for the vaccine.
Hank Aaron dies in his sleep 2 weeks after the vaccine. 88 yer olds die in their sleep all the time.
The vast majority of the people that died in the first 3 months of 2021 could not have gotten the vaccine. I am 59 and I was not able to get mine until March 9. The only reason I was that early was because of other health issues.
These idiots have disproven their own argument. They are showing that athletes do die all of the time independent of the vaccine.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 374 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 3:06 PM drlove has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 382 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 3:23 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7333
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 380 of 513 (890769)
01-10-2022 3:22 PM
Reply to: Message 378 by drlove
01-10-2022 3:19 PM


Alex Berenson is not a professional he is a journalist. maybe if you actually looked at what you link to you would know.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 378 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 3:19 PM drlove has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 383 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 3:26 PM Theodoric has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7333
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


(2)
Message 384 of 513 (890774)
01-10-2022 3:29 PM
Reply to: Message 376 by drlove
01-10-2022 3:12 PM


Re: Covid-19 death rate between vaccinated vs un-vaccinated by nation.
And if Infowars wasn't trying to sow chaos they would point out what the UK government points out.

quote:
In the context of very high vaccine coverage in the population, even with a highly effective vaccine, it is expected that a large proportion of cases, hospitalisations and deaths would occur in vaccinated individuals, simply because a larger proportion of the population are vaccinated than unvaccinated and no vaccine is 100% effective.
This is especially true because vaccination has been prioritised in individuals who are more susceptible or more at risk of severe disease. Individuals in risk groups may also be more at risk of hospitalisation or death due to non-COVID-19 causes, and thus may be hospitalised or die with COVID-19 rather than because of COVID-19.

But who cares about actual facts.
Again you posted something without understanding the science, but it sure looked good.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 376 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 3:12 PM drlove has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 392 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 4:57 PM Theodoric has taken no action

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7333
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 385 of 513 (890775)
01-10-2022 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 383 by drlove
01-10-2022 3:26 PM


Can you read?
As I said the wiki link has links to his lies. Do you know how to follow footnotes on Wikipedia?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 383 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 3:26 PM drlove has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 393 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 4:58 PM Theodoric has taken no action

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7333
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 386 of 513 (890776)
01-10-2022 3:31 PM
Reply to: Message 382 by drlove
01-10-2022 3:23 PM


Re: belief vs unbelief
Repeating a lie over and over does not make it true. Provide a source, or not, your choice.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence.


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 382 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 3:23 PM drlove has taken no action

  
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