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Author
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Topic: Belief Versus The Scientific Method
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Tanypteryx
Member Posts: 4411 From: Oregon, USA Joined: 08-27-2006 Member Rating: 5.4
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Message 300 of 513 (890598)
01-08-2022 3:36 PM
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Reply to: Message 299 by drlove
01-08-2022 3:28 PM
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"I always thought the Russian bots were more sophisticated and subtle. If this guy doesn't up his game Putin might put a little poison on his doorknob." post 281
That strange one Oh, ok now I see why it's so strange, it wasn't a denial, it was sarcasm. Too subtle I guess.
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty PythonOne important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 299 by drlove, posted 01-08-2022 3:28 PM | | drlove has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 304 by drlove, posted 01-08-2022 3:47 PM | | Tanypteryx has not replied |
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Tanypteryx
Member Posts: 4411 From: Oregon, USA Joined: 08-27-2006 Member Rating: 5.4
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Message 335 of 513 (890655)
01-09-2022 2:33 PM
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Reply to: Message 332 by Theodoric
01-09-2022 11:25 AM
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Re: To question you must understand
Hey Theo, we haven't seen you for a while. I hope you are staying well!
People who shout that we should question the science tend to be those that do not understand the science. I would expand on that a bit and say tend to be those that do not understand any science. The recent posts in this thread show a complete lack of understanding of some of the key aspects of the Scientific Method that have been refined over the last couple of centuries. In school, some of us learned the basic steps of the scientific method that were similar to these:
quote:
a method of procedure that has characterized natural science since the 17th century, consisting in systematic observation, measurement, and experiment, and the formulation, testing, and modification of hypotheses.
or quote:
The scientific method is an empirical method of acquiring knowledge that has characterized the development of science since at least the 17th century. It involves careful observation, applying rigorous skepticism about what is observed, given that cognitive assumptions can distort how one interprets the observation. Wikipedia
That part about rigorous skepticism is often misunderstood or completely lost by the anti-science crowd. Over the centuries it was obvious that bias during the observation, experimentation or conclusion processes would make the results untrustworthy. Good scientists learned to look for and correct the flaws in their own work, always, every single time. When they didn't do that, when they let their beliefs cloud their judgement, their mistakes were found and exposed by others and if they were not corrected eventually no one in their field will trust any of their work. In my experience, I ask my friends to find the flaws in my hypotheses, and in my methodology and in my results. Then after we think we have found all my mistakes I present the study for peer review and make more corrections. I may have to explain and revise my reasoning for the methodology and conclusions. All of this includes searching through all the references to past studies that may refute parts or all of my study. The anti-science crowd thinks scientists are trying to prove their conclusions, when in reality good scientists are doing everything they can think of to anticipate what would falsify their conclusions. I would expect and welcome my best friend to point out any mistake or flawed reasoning in one of my papers. People who double down on their mistakes or repeat flawed arguments over and over are flawed scientists and should not expect any of their work to be seriously considered. In most cases the research that the anti-science crowd claims is rejected by reputable scientific journals, have never even been submitted for review. The people who produced them knew their papers were bullshit and would be exposed and so they went to the fringe press where absolutely anything can be published.
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty PythonOne important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 332 by Theodoric, posted 01-09-2022 11:25 AM | | Theodoric has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 360 by Theodoric, posted 01-10-2022 2:35 PM | | Tanypteryx has not replied |
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Tanypteryx
Member Posts: 4411 From: Oregon, USA Joined: 08-27-2006 Member Rating: 5.4
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Message 343 of 513 (890668)
01-09-2022 3:13 PM
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Reply to: Message 338 by drlove
01-09-2022 2:46 PM
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Re: Covid-19 death rate between vaccinated vs un-vaccinated by nation.
That is not science! That is bias and greed and belief and etc. That correctly sums up everything you have written here. Everything you have written here in Message 338 is completely bogus, unsubstantiated bullshit. You just made it up. Edited by Tanypteryx, : No reason given.
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty PythonOne important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 338 by drlove, posted 01-09-2022 2:46 PM | | drlove has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 345 by drlove, posted 01-09-2022 3:25 PM | | Tanypteryx has replied |
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Tanypteryx
Member Posts: 4411 From: Oregon, USA Joined: 08-27-2006 Member Rating: 5.4
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Message 347 of 513 (890672)
01-09-2022 3:33 PM
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Reply to: Message 345 by drlove
01-09-2022 3:25 PM
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Re: Covid-19 death rate between vaccinated vs un-vaccinated by nation.
There does seem to be data suggesting that vaccines are not the only way Yep, and I have not seen a single scientist claim vaccines are the only way out of the Covid pandemic. Effective masks, isolation, rapid testing and sanitary practices along with vaccines are all part of the strategy.
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty PythonOne important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 345 by drlove, posted 01-09-2022 3:25 PM | | drlove has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 352 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 1:34 AM | | Tanypteryx has replied |
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Tanypteryx
Member Posts: 4411 From: Oregon, USA Joined: 08-27-2006 Member Rating: 5.4
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Message 349 of 513 (890674)
01-09-2022 3:42 PM
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Reply to: Message 346 by drlove
01-09-2022 3:27 PM
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in the example of medical science, there are different opinions and beliefs on some issues. And that's why science demands evidence, so we don't make stupid decisions based on beliefs and opinions.
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty PythonOne important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 346 by drlove, posted 01-09-2022 3:27 PM | | drlove has not replied |
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Tanypteryx
Member Posts: 4411 From: Oregon, USA Joined: 08-27-2006 Member Rating: 5.4
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Message 350 of 513 (890675)
01-09-2022 3:45 PM
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Reply to: Message 344 by drlove
01-09-2022 3:20 PM
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Re: To question you must understand
Appeal to blind faith in 'science' and to disregard thousands of qualified people from science as wrong for no real reason and without looking at the facts. Got it. That does not resemble anything Theo said.
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 344 by drlove, posted 01-09-2022 3:20 PM | | drlove has replied |
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Tanypteryx
Member Posts: 4411 From: Oregon, USA Joined: 08-27-2006 Member Rating: 5.4
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Message 359 of 513 (890701)
01-10-2022 9:02 AM
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Reply to: Message 352 by drlove
01-10-2022 1:34 AM
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Re: Covid-19 death rate between vaccinated vs un-vaccinated by nation.
drlove writes: How about in the US where they want it mandated? The Dr in charge says he represents science. He advocates for vaccines up the wazoo. They even want to stick it to children. Are you saying science is not with him? Or that it is? Or..? Reading comprehension isn't your strong suit, is it?
Tanypteryx writes: Yep, and I have not seen a single scientist claim vaccines are the only way out of the Covid pandemic. Effective masks, isolation, rapid testing and sanitary practices along with vaccines are all part of the strategy.
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty PythonOne important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 352 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 1:34 AM | | drlove has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 371 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 2:57 PM | | Tanypteryx has replied |
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Tanypteryx
Member Posts: 4411 From: Oregon, USA Joined: 08-27-2006 Member Rating: 5.4
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Re: To question you must understand
Yep!
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty PythonOne important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 366 by Theodoric, posted 01-10-2022 2:51 PM | | Theodoric has not replied |
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Tanypteryx
Member Posts: 4411 From: Oregon, USA Joined: 08-27-2006 Member Rating: 5.4
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Message 388 of 513 (890779)
01-10-2022 3:36 PM
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Reply to: Message 371 by drlove
01-10-2022 2:57 PM
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Re: Covid-19 death rate between vaccinated vs un-vaccinated by nation.
drlove writes: If you are saying that true people of science are not fanatics on one side of the issue, I would agree. However, both sides claim science. Nope, that doesn't resemble anything I said. Here it is again for the 3rd time.
Tanypteryx writes: Yep, and I have not seen a single scientist claim vaccines are the only way out of the Covid pandemic. Effective masks, isolation, rapid testing and sanitary practices along with vaccines are all part of the strategy. No wonder you have posted nothing but total bullshit here, you can't read.
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty PythonOne important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 371 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 2:57 PM | | drlove has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 395 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 5:04 PM | | Tanypteryx has not replied |
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Tanypteryx
Member Posts: 4411 From: Oregon, USA Joined: 08-27-2006 Member Rating: 5.4
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Message 486 of 513 (891339)
01-25-2022 9:05 PM
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Reply to: Message 483 by Percy
01-25-2022 5:25 PM
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Re: Any Redeeming Value?
He's said some true stuff. The few times he accidently said anything true is insignificant compared to the bullshit he spread here as a dis-information troll. He's failed to make any discernable attempts at honest discussion and repeats things that have already been to shown to be false. He repeatedly says that studies report the exact opposite of the actual conclusions. Your rebuttals have been brilliant, but I really think you are misreading his character.
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty PythonOne important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 483 by Percy, posted 01-25-2022 5:25 PM | | Percy has seen this message but not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 487 by jar, posted 01-26-2022 7:55 AM | | Tanypteryx has replied |
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Tanypteryx
Member Posts: 4411 From: Oregon, USA Joined: 08-27-2006 Member Rating: 5.4
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Message 488 of 513 (891350)
01-26-2022 1:19 PM
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Reply to: Message 487 by jar
01-26-2022 7:55 AM
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Re: Any Redeeming Value?
Since the 1950s the Christian Cult of Willful Ignorance and Avoidance has had the sole goal of creating a society where SOURCE trumps content, BELIEF trumps evidence and FANTASY trumps reality. Yeah, that does seem to be a trend we've seen with the rise of TV conmen since the 50s, but really that seems like the MO of religion, forever and always. Religion can only thrive on ignorance.
They have no base to stand on and nothing stops them from believing two mutually exclusive points of view simultaneously. Only two? In my experience they believe in multiple mutually exclusive points of view simultaneously. (And without suffering any visible sign of cognitive dissonance whatsoever.)
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty PythonOne important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 487 by jar, posted 01-26-2022 7:55 AM | | jar has replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 489 by jar, posted 01-26-2022 1:42 PM | | Tanypteryx has replied |
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Tanypteryx
Member Posts: 4411 From: Oregon, USA Joined: 08-27-2006 Member Rating: 5.4
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Message 490 of 513 (891352)
01-26-2022 2:19 PM
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Reply to: Message 489 by jar
01-26-2022 1:42 PM
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Re: Any Redeeming Value?
A great example is the under the Muslim Iberian Caliphs when education, learning, science, acceptance of other races, religions, nationalities was the norm. In the 100 or so years of their reign there were about a dozen caliphs and it was not all peace and prosperity. There was a hell of a lot of warfare. There have been quite a few enlightened religious individuals in our history who encouraged education, until the ignorant realize what's happening and shit all over everything.
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty PythonOne important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 489 by jar, posted 01-26-2022 1:42 PM | | jar has not replied |
| Replies to this message: | | | Message 491 by AZPaul3, posted 01-26-2022 3:56 PM | | Tanypteryx has not replied |
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Tanypteryx
Member Posts: 4411 From: Oregon, USA Joined: 08-27-2006 Member Rating: 5.4
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Message 505 of 513 (891367)
01-27-2022 1:23 AM
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Reply to: Message 501 by dwise1
01-26-2022 7:52 PM
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Re: Any Redeeming Value?
Yep, you're a YEC whack-job. Exact same style trolling. We can recognize that stench from a mile away. Putin loves puppets like him.
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty PythonOne important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 501 by dwise1, posted 01-26-2022 7:52 PM | | dwise1 has not replied |
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Tanypteryx
Member Posts: 4411 From: Oregon, USA Joined: 08-27-2006 Member Rating: 5.4
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Message 511 of 513 (891379)
01-27-2022 1:02 PM
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Reply to: Message 509 by Theodoric
01-27-2022 11:46 AM
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Re: Sorry for feeding the troll
Not a doctor, just can't spell drove.
What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty PythonOne important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq
| This message is a reply to: | | | Message 509 by Theodoric, posted 01-27-2022 11:46 AM | | Theodoric has not replied |
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