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Author Topic:   Belief Versus The Scientific Method
Porkncheese
Member
Posts: 170
From: Australia
Joined: 08-25-2017


Message 391 of 480 (890788)
01-10-2022 4:44 PM
Reply to: Message 390 by Theodoric
01-10-2022 4:31 PM


Re: Science vs pseudoscience
These guys aren't laymen, their experts
Dr Malone inventor of mrna tech
Dr Yeadon former pfizer cheif
Dr McCollough most published guy in his field
Dr Zelenko a frontline doctor who has treated thousands of patients
Dr Gold another physician with loads of experience

The mainstream experts are afraid of debating these guys cos they know they will loose... Its anti-science and anti-western democracy


In the beginning God made the heavens and the earth

This message is a reply to:
 Message 390 by Theodoric, posted 01-10-2022 4:31 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 396 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 5:04 PM Porkncheese has not yet responded
 Message 397 by Tangle, posted 01-10-2022 5:14 PM Porkncheese has responded
 Message 400 by Theodoric, posted 01-10-2022 5:52 PM Porkncheese has not yet responded

  
drlove
Member
Posts: 146
Joined: 01-02-2022
Member Rating: 1.2


(1)
Message 392 of 480 (890789)
01-10-2022 4:57 PM
Reply to: Message 384 by Theodoric
01-10-2022 3:29 PM


Re: Covid-19 death rate between vaccinated vs un-vaccinated by nation.
The actual facts are that people do interpret the numbers in different ways. One thing that seems evident, the vaccines do not protect people from what they are supposed to be protecting them from since most sick are vaccinated. Simple

This message is a reply to:
 Message 384 by Theodoric, posted 01-10-2022 3:29 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
drlove
Member
Posts: 146
Joined: 01-02-2022
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 393 of 480 (890790)
01-10-2022 4:58 PM
Reply to: Message 385 by Theodoric
01-10-2022 3:30 PM


Re: Can you read?
name one.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 385 by Theodoric, posted 01-10-2022 3:30 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
drlove
Member
Posts: 146
Joined: 01-02-2022
Member Rating: 1.2


(1)
Message 394 of 480 (890793)
01-10-2022 5:00 PM
Reply to: Message 390 by Theodoric
01-10-2022 4:31 PM


Re: Science vs pseudoscience
The virologists and other professionals speaking out against the vaccine agenda are not debating, They are sharing their knowledge and experience from science, and informing people.

The fact that there are interpretations shows that it is a matter of belief and not science that is devoid of belief.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 390 by Theodoric, posted 01-10-2022 4:31 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
drlove
Member
Posts: 146
Joined: 01-02-2022
Member Rating: 1.2


(1)
Message 395 of 480 (890794)
01-10-2022 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 388 by Tanypteryx
01-10-2022 3:36 PM


Re: Covid-19 death rate between vaccinated vs un-vaccinated by nation.
Well, whatever point you seem to be trying to make is apparently less than clear and concise. The push from science led governments who hire scientists for advice is actually wholly wrapped around vaccines.

I have a suggestion for all of them. Make absolutely sure that no one makes any money off any vaccine or agenda. Make the drug companies liable as well as transparent, as well as non profit on this emergency. Otherwise why trust them at all?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 388 by Tanypteryx, posted 01-10-2022 3:36 PM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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drlove
Member
Posts: 146
Joined: 01-02-2022
Member Rating: 1.2


(1)
Message 396 of 480 (890795)
01-10-2022 5:04 PM
Reply to: Message 391 by Porkncheese
01-10-2022 4:44 PM


Re: Science vs pseudoscience
Good one.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 391 by Porkncheese, posted 01-10-2022 4:44 PM Porkncheese has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8331
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.9


Message 397 of 480 (890798)
01-10-2022 5:14 PM
Reply to: Message 391 by Porkncheese
01-10-2022 4:44 PM


Re: Science vs pseudoscience
I don't know any of these people as I don't delve into garbage but the 'Pfizer Chief' intrigued me.

Turns out he he got pretty much everything wrong. This is just one of his statements.

And

"In October, Yeadon wrote a column for the United Kingdom’s Daily Mail newspaper that also appeared on MailOnline, one of the world’s most-visited news websites. It declared that deaths caused by COVID-19, which then totaled about 45,000 in Britain, will soon “fizzle out” and Britons “should immediately be allowed to resume normal life.” Since then, the disease has killed about another 80,000 people in the UK."

It looks like he's gone a bit mad. Change of personality stuff.

The ex-Pfizer scientist who became an anti-vax hero.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 391 by Porkncheese, posted 01-10-2022 4:44 PM Porkncheese has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 399 by Porkncheese, posted 01-10-2022 5:31 PM Tangle has responded
 Message 407 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 8:50 PM Tangle has not yet responded

  
Porkncheese
Member
Posts: 170
From: Australia
Joined: 08-25-2017


Message 398 of 480 (890799)
01-10-2022 5:19 PM
Reply to: Message 395 by drlove
01-10-2022 5:04 PM


Re: Covid-19 death rate between vaccinated vs un-vaccinated by nation.
People think that these drug manufacturers are benevolent...
Many don't realize that these companies have been sued in the past and have had to pay out billions of dollars in damages from malpractice...
Our health is not their main concern. Their main concern is profit... And with Pfizer making a record high profit last year they will be looking at making more this year

There is a huge conflict of interests at play here... All the governments committed to these needles way back as early April 2020 before the trials had even finished.
This caused them to become invested in the needles. So now they have to move them how ever they can using criminal tactics like coercion.
Any data or information that puts the vax in a negative light is getting ignored.

Eg. A mate of mine had to be hospitalized the day after having a shot... The medical staff refused to consider the possibility of vaccine injury despite having no other explanation. How many times is this happening. It is causing a serious under reporting of adverse events and deaths which is already too high as it is

Most people don't support forced needles and the discrimination of the unvaxed but there is a minority that do support it. These people are yet to give me a valid response to why we should be forced. They don't care about these vax deaths and injuries, they don't care about the censorship, they don't care about the damage done by lockdowns, they don't care about anything else around them. They are only focused on one small point... Covid


In the beginning God made the heavens and the earth

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
 Message 401 by Theodoric, posted 01-10-2022 5:55 PM Porkncheese has not yet responded

  
Porkncheese
Member
Posts: 170
From: Australia
Joined: 08-25-2017


Message 399 of 480 (890802)
01-10-2022 5:31 PM
Reply to: Message 397 by Tangle
01-10-2022 5:14 PM


Re: Science vs pseudoscience
What you mean is that you don't listen to opposing arguments. Not very objective

Just because he was wrong about one speculation doesn't dismiss his claims about everything else. That is no reason to avoid debate...
And besides, with the inflated death counts he was probably right.
The mainstream has been wrong about many things... This needle was supposed to bring herd immunity, end the pandemic and bring us back to normal... They were wrong. They said it would be as bad as the Spanish flu, they were wrong. They told us 2 weeks to flatten the curve, they were wrong.

And which experts are the msm citing? Can you name them? Why don't they debate?
Anyway the point is that the mainstream are shutting down debate cos they know they will loose. Its unscientific and one of Karl Poppers red flags of pseudoscience and its shutting down free speech, a foundation of western democracy


In the beginning God made the heavens and the earth

This message is a reply to:
 Message 397 by Tangle, posted 01-10-2022 5:14 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 402 by Tangle, posted 01-10-2022 5:59 PM Porkncheese has not yet responded
 Message 403 by Theodoric, posted 01-10-2022 6:18 PM Porkncheese has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7149
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 400 of 480 (890806)
01-10-2022 5:52 PM
Reply to: Message 391 by Porkncheese
01-10-2022 4:44 PM


Re: Science vs pseudoscience
Malone did not invent mRNA "tech"
The Vaccine Scientist Spreading Vaccine Misinformation

Yeadon was not pfizer chief or chief. He was a VP. Corporate VP's are a dime a dozen. He is a liar and notoriously wrong. He is a pharmacologist and notorious nutjob.

quote:
Yeadon falsely claimed that the COVID-19 pandemic in the United Kingdom was "effectively over" in October 2020,[17][18] that there would be no "second wave" of infections,[6][19] and that healthy people could not spread the SARS-CoV-2 virus.[1][20] He has claimed without evidence that COVID-19 vaccines were unnecessary,[21][20][19] unsafe,[1][22] and could cause infertility in women.[1][6][23] In a letter to the European Medicines Agency, Yeadon and the German physician Wolfgang Wodarg called for all vaccine trials to be stopped, falsely suggesting[24][25][26] that mRNA vaccines could target the syncytin-1 protein needed for placenta formation.[27][a] In an interview with political strategist Steve Bannon, Yeadon falsely asserted that children were "50 times more likely to be killed by the COVID vaccines than the virus itself", citing a high number of events following COVID-19 vaccination reported on the Vaccine Adverse Event Reporting System (VAERS) database.[31][32][3] The US Centers for Disease Control, which operates the database, cautions that such reports are not verified and do not prove that vaccines caused any given adverse event.[31][32] Yeadon has also discouraged COVID-19 lockdowns and the use of face masks despite evidence for their effectiveness.[22] He has alleged that the vaccines cause recipients to become magnetic.[14] Several of Yeadon's claims have been amplified on social media

Follow the links. If you dare.

McCollough. Have no idea how published he is but his fieledd is irrelevant. And he isn't the most published in his field. He is a cardiologist. Not an expert in viruses or vaccines. Baylor University sued him to stop saying he was associated with them. They won.

Zelenko. Is a family practice doc, so is my wife. He made wild ass claims that he did not provide any evidence for. Not an expert and seems to have been lying as he can not provide any data to support his claims. He is fleecing the rubes.
Fact Check: Zelenko 'Vaccine Death Report' Does NOT Show Credible Data -- It Rehashes Disproven COVID Vaccine Claims | Lead Stories

Gold? Really? Simone fucking Gold? Emergency room doc. Not an expert. She is a liar and a grifter fleecing the rubes and an insurrectionist.

This is the best you have. You are going to stake your life on liars, grifters athe obviously mentally ill? Wow!

Do you think the scientists that worked on the Webb Telescope should have debated laymen and people out of their field about deploying the telescope?


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 391 by Porkncheese, posted 01-10-2022 4:44 PM Porkncheese has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7149
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


(1)
Message 401 of 480 (890810)
01-10-2022 5:55 PM
Reply to: Message 398 by Porkncheese
01-10-2022 5:19 PM


Re: Covid-19 death rate between vaccinated vs un-vaccinated by nation.
Do you even know what VAERS, EMA and MHRA are?

This is not a source. This is a meme that claims it is sourced. Find the actual data and you might have something.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 398 by Porkncheese, posted 01-10-2022 5:19 PM Porkncheese has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8331
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 5.9


(1)
Message 402 of 480 (890812)
01-10-2022 5:59 PM
Reply to: Message 399 by Porkncheese
01-10-2022 5:31 PM


Re: Science vs pseudoscience
PorkiePies writes:

What you mean is that you don't listen to opposing arguments.

A few, I do try to read up on the less insane ones. But one crackpot is pretty similar to the next.

That's why I looked up the Pfizer guy, he was once an actual scientist but he's now obviously not. Even if you don't want to read about his psychosis, his predictions are well documented and have been shown to be wrong. So that's that.

Just because he was wrong about one speculation doesn't dismiss his claims about everything else.

Well in this case it does I'm afraid. When a scientist makes a prediction and it's proven false, then the hypothesis fails. And, if you read the article he predicted a lot and got it wrong. Sorry, he's lost the plot.

And besides, with the inflated death counts he was probably right.

Yeh, it's that conspiracy again...

Anyway the point is that the mainstream are shutting down debate cos they know they will loose. Its unscientific and one of Karl Poppers red flags of pseudoscience and its shutting down free speech, a foundation of western democracy

Now you're just blabbering.

Look, some lucky parts of the Western World are at a tipping point with this virus now. A combination of the vaccines, immunity resulting from previous infection, a less harmful variant out-competing more harmful ones and effective anti-virals that deal with severe disease we're almost at the endemic level.

We can now begin to have serious discussions about removing restrictions and returning to normality. And you can stop feeling persecuted for you ignorant beliefs.


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 399 by Porkncheese, posted 01-10-2022 5:31 PM Porkncheese has not yet responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7149
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 403 of 480 (890818)
01-10-2022 6:18 PM
Reply to: Message 399 by Porkncheese
01-10-2022 5:31 PM


Re: Science vs pseudoscience
Its unscientific and one of Karl Poppers red flags of pseudoscience and its shutting down free speech, a foundation of western democracy

Source?
Or did you just hear this somewhere?

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 399 by Porkncheese, posted 01-10-2022 5:31 PM Porkncheese has not yet responded

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20507
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 8.4


(1)
Message 404 of 480 (890831)
01-10-2022 7:30 PM
Reply to: Message 328 by jar
01-09-2022 9:53 AM


Re: Covid-19 death rate between vaccinated vs un-vaccinated by nation.
Post deleted. I'm moderating this thread and should not be posting here.

--Percy

Edited by Percy, : Delete content.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 328 by jar, posted 01-09-2022 9:53 AM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 405 by jar, posted 01-10-2022 7:39 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply
 Message 408 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 8:52 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
jar
Member
Posts: 33658
From: Texas!!
Joined: 04-20-2004
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 405 of 480 (890834)
01-10-2022 7:39 PM
Reply to: Message 404 by Percy
01-10-2022 7:30 PM


Re: Covid-19 death rate between vaccinated vs un-vaccinated by nation.
Percy writes:

The necessary math skills just are not there.

The necessary thinking skills just are not there.

It ain't just math.


My Website: My Website

This message is a reply to:
 Message 404 by Percy, posted 01-10-2022 7:30 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
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