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Author Topic:   Belief Versus The Scientific Method
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2137
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 7.5


Message 406 of 480 (890835)
01-10-2022 8:48 PM
Reply to: Message 329 by AZPaul3
01-09-2022 10:53 AM


AZPaul3 in what he writes, cracks:
If I'm talking about the JWST flying out to L2 do I really need to debunk flat-Earth theory first?

Thanks! - I needed a good laugh!!!


"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."

- xongsmith, 5.7d


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 Message 329 by AZPaul3, posted 01-09-2022 10:53 AM AZPaul3 has acknowledged this reply

  
drlove
Member
Posts: 146
Joined: 01-02-2022
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 407 of 480 (890836)
01-10-2022 8:50 PM
Reply to: Message 397 by Tangle
01-10-2022 5:14 PM


Re: Science vs pseudoscience
The guy was also wrong when he worked for the drug company. We'll have to revoke his sainthood I guess.

The thing is who says Fauci always has to be right? Gates? Biden?

At least Michael actually worked for a drug company as a scientist. He would have more insight about the inside than most others.

"Dr. Mike Yeadon gets his credibility from being an ex-Pfizer scientist. He holds a Ph.D. in pharmacology and worked in the pharmaceutical industry for 35 years. 16 of these years were at Pfizer, and six at his own startup Ziarco, which he sold for hundreds of millions of pounds. He is retired and splits his time between the cities of Nice in France, and Canterbury in the U.K. He has never worked on vaccines.

Since May of last year, Yeadon has been accusing the government of an escalating series of crimes and cover-ups. On his Twitter page, which no longer exists, he gained an impressive following over the course of 2020. He eventually created a petition with another German anti-vax doctor, Wulfgang Wodarg, demanding that the EU stop vaccine trials because according to him, they damage fertility. "
Scientists vs Science: Interviews with Mike Yeadon and Robert Malone

So it is again a matter of who we want to believe. Remember that the drug company he worked for was known for lying in the past and hurting people. They got sued in one of the biggest lawsuits ever. Companies like that are known to donate to media and officials. One of the only ways we have of finding dangers of their products is from people on the inside. And so called fact checkers can be hired like a street worker. It is a question of who we choose to believe. If you want to dismiss him in all things because he had a prediction wrong, well, you better fire a lot of people!


This message is a reply to:
 Message 397 by Tangle, posted 01-10-2022 5:14 PM Tangle has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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drlove
Member
Posts: 146
Joined: 01-02-2022
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 408 of 480 (890837)
01-10-2022 8:52 PM
Reply to: Message 404 by Percy
01-10-2022 7:30 PM


Re: Covid-19 death rate between vaccinated vs un-vaccinated by nation.
must be an interesting thread

This message is a reply to:
 Message 404 by Percy, posted 01-10-2022 7:30 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

  
Theodoric
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Posts: 7148
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 409 of 480 (890840)
01-10-2022 11:09 PM
Reply to: Message 407 by drlove
01-10-2022 8:50 PM


Re: Science vs pseudoscience
Did you even read the article you linked to? Nice taking the quote you posted out of context. This article clearly exposes them as political hacks and trying make a buck.
You suck at this.

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 407 by drlove, posted 01-10-2022 8:50 PM drlove has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 410 by drlove, posted 01-11-2022 1:09 AM Theodoric has responded

  
drlove
Member
Posts: 146
Joined: 01-02-2022
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 410 of 480 (890853)
01-11-2022 1:09 AM
Reply to: Message 409 by Theodoric
01-10-2022 11:09 PM


Re: Science vs pseudoscience
Did you read all articles on both sides from all professionals? As was explained to you, the issue is that all the data is subject to interpretation and belief, that is why scientists fall on both sides of the debate. That is what this thread is about, asking if science is related to belief.

That is also why stories keep changing. Before it was 'just get a vaccination and you will be safe'. These days it is more like 'get shots as often as we want to sell them to you and they won't keep you safe anyhow, but we want them mandatory even for little children'! That is not science.

Pfizer CEO: 2 shots 'offer very limited protection, if any'

"Pfizer CEO: 2 shots 'offer very limited protection, if any'

They had to admit that since we all can see that places like fully vaccinated cruise ships get hammered with covid, and some of the highest sickness rates are in places that have the highest vaccination rates.

Edited by drlove, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 409 by Theodoric, posted 01-10-2022 11:09 PM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
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Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7148
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 411 of 480 (890867)
01-11-2022 9:57 AM
Reply to: Message 410 by drlove
01-11-2022 1:09 AM


Re: Science vs pseudoscience
As always quotes out of context and a source that is a known partisan source.
You might want to read what he actually said.

We have known for months that immunity lagged with omicron. This is not news. Would you rather people be dead than mildly infected? Why the death wish?

The two doses, they’re not enough for omicron,” Bourla said. “The third dose of the current vaccine is providing quite good protection against deaths, and decent protection against hospitalizations.

Pfizer CEO says two Covid vaccine doses aren't 'enough for omicron'


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 410 by drlove, posted 01-11-2022 1:09 AM drlove has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 412 by drlove, posted 01-11-2022 2:45 PM Theodoric has responded

  
drlove
Member
Posts: 146
Joined: 01-02-2022
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 412 of 480 (890903)
01-11-2022 2:45 PM
Reply to: Message 411 by Theodoric
01-11-2022 9:57 AM


interpteting fact
In that link it also says
"Bourla said the two-dose vaccine does not provide robust protection against infection and its ability to prevent hospitalization has also declined."

In another quote from the interview we see this
"“Two doses of the vaccine offers very limited protection, if any,” Bourla said when asked about developing an omicron variant-specific booster.

“Three doses with a booster offer reasonable protection against hospitalization and deaths,” Bourla added.

However, “Less protection against infection,” the CEO admitted.

The new admissions are a complete 180° from Bourla’s previous statements last year, which touted the first and second vaccine doses as “100% effective.”

Pfizer CEO Admits: “Two Doses of Vaccine Offer Very Limited Protection IF ANY”

So, not only is there gaping disparity between professionals and scientists over the science data, but within the 'vaccine is the answer and forget everything else' sides own previous claims!

If the science was valid they would both agree with themselves, and each other!

No other conclusion is sane and logical but the conclusion that the agenda we see is not based on the science. If the death rate for kids is much less than 1% (and those stats are inclusive of many other possible reasons for death) then how is the science on the side of mandating vaccinations for them?

Edited by drlove, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 411 by Theodoric, posted 01-11-2022 9:57 AM Theodoric has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 413 by Theodoric, posted 01-11-2022 3:21 PM drlove has responded

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7148
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 413 of 480 (890907)
01-11-2022 3:21 PM
Reply to: Message 412 by drlove
01-11-2022 2:45 PM


You love making up quotes
'vaccine is the answer and forget everything else'

No one said this. Ever.
Done with you. You should go troll elsewhere

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 412 by drlove, posted 01-11-2022 2:45 PM drlove has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 414 by drlove, posted 01-11-2022 8:34 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

  
drlove
Member
Posts: 146
Joined: 01-02-2022
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 414 of 480 (890910)
01-11-2022 8:34 PM
Reply to: Message 413 by Theodoric
01-11-2022 3:21 PM


Re: You love making up quotes
They do say that. The push to vaccinate kids and make vaccines mandatory and push push push has been the order of the day for a few years now. The guy in the states in charge, is implicated in lying about being involved with biological warfare experiments basically. He lied to congress.

"Experts reacting to a Project Veritas report that presidential adviser Anthony Fauci went ahead with dangerous gain-of-function coronavirus research after other federal officials deemed it too risky say it was, essentially, the intentional "manslaughter of millions."

The Project Veritas report cited secret government documents revealing that the Defense Advanced Research Projects Agency determined that a request for funding for gain-of-function research was too much of a risk.

But shortly after, Fauci's NIAID "went ahead with the research in Wuhan, China, and at several sites across the U.S.," the report said.

"Dr. Fauci has repeatedly maintained, under oath, that the NIH and NAIAD have not been involved in gain of function research with the EcoHealth Alliance program. But according to the documents obtained by Project Veritas which outline why EcoHealth Alliance’s proposal was rejected, DARPA certainly classified the research as gain of function," Project Veritas explains."

Fauci's gain-of-function work called 'intentional manslaughter of millions'

You call that science? Alternative treatments have been suppressed by media and health authorities! Don't pretend otherwise. The vaccine agenda was pushed above all else your denial is ridiculous.

Here is testimony from someone who had boots on the ground and direct experience.

"A former ICU nurse laid waste to the Covid narrative at her local county school board meeting this week, exposing how the medical authorities are responsible for coronavirus deaths by not promoting early treatment protocols.

Speaking at a New Hanover County school board meeting in Wilmington, North Carolina, on Tuesday, registered nurse Morgan Wallace – who says she quit her job over vaccine mandates – slammed vaccines for failing to protect people from contracting Covid, and blamed government incompetence for leading to thousands of deaths.

“Everyone who died with Covid should be considered murdered. Early treatment has always been effective,” Wallace told a captive audience"

“Everyone Who Died With Covid Should Be Considered Murdered”: Nurse Promoting Early Treatment Exposes Scamdemic in Epic School Board Rant


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 Message 413 by Theodoric, posted 01-11-2022 3:21 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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nwr
Member
Posts: 5887
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 7.9


Message 415 of 480 (890911)
01-11-2022 9:05 PM
Reply to: Message 414 by drlove
01-11-2022 8:34 PM


Re: You love making up quotes
"Experts reacting to a Project Veritas report ..."

From the Wikipedia entry for Project Veritas
quote:
Project Veritas is an American far-right activist group founded by James O'Keefe in 2010. The group produces deceptively edited videos ...

No, project Veritas cannot be relied on for credible evidence.


Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

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 Message 414 by drlove, posted 01-11-2022 8:34 PM drlove has responded

Replies to this message:
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Adminnemooseus
Director
Posts: 3947
Joined: 09-26-2002


Message 416 of 480 (890923)
01-11-2022 11:35 PM


Too much troll, feeding troll happening - OFFICIAL WARNING MESSAGE
Messages from anyone, that do not have any real content and a relationship to the topic theme, are liable to trigger suspension(s).

And I'm way behind (wonder why) in reading all the messages.

Adminnemooseus


Or something like that©.

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7148
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 5.1


Message 417 of 480 (890960)
01-12-2022 4:56 PM
Reply to: Message 5 by Phat
03-25-2021 8:52 PM


Re: Forcing My Hand Towards Science
Since I have been away for a while, I guess I feel a need to jab Phat a little like in the good old days.

If there is no objective evidence then it does not exist. It is sorely in the realm of belief and everyone's personal beliefs or simply that. Their own personal beliefs. Those beliefs have no impact on others unless it is forced on them. No one can come to the same personal beliefs as you without input from you.
That is why science and the scientific method hold supremacy over belief. By using the scientific method multiple people can come to the same conclusion based upon the evidence without influencing each other.
If belief was something other than a personal thing(bad burrito) then people would independently arrive at the same conclusions. We wdo not see that.

Edited by Theodoric, : bad spalling


Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 5 by Phat, posted 03-25-2021 8:52 PM Phat has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
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drlove
Member
Posts: 146
Joined: 01-02-2022
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 418 of 480 (890964)
01-12-2022 5:49 PM
Reply to: Message 417 by Theodoric
01-12-2022 4:56 PM


Re: Forcing My Hand Towards Science
Thanks for sharing your beliefs.

Now, on the issue of medical science if objective evidence exists, then scientists on both sides of the vaccination issues disagree about that evidence. It has been a matter of opinion.

Let's look at science regarding vaccines (although one side claims the covid vaccines are not actually vaccines)

"The creation of a vaccine involves scientists and medical experts from around the world, and it usually requires 10 to 15 years of research before the vaccine is made available to the general public. The first step of this extensive process involves several years of laboratory research, in which scientists and researchers identify an antigen that can prevent a disease.

Once the test vaccine has been cleared for further investigation by the U.S. Food and Drug Administration, at least three more phases of thorough clinical trials are conducted on human volunteers to test vaccine efficacy, to determine appropriate dosage, and to monitor for adverse side effects, etc. These trials usually take several more years to complete. The last phase involves a test group of up to tens of thousands of human volunteers. Unsure if this is a large enough test group? Consider this -– medicines in the United States also go through incredible scrutiny, but their test subject sample sizes are three times smaller than vaccine test subject groups.

But that's not the end of it: Once approved, the FDA continues to closely monitor the vaccine . It tests everything from batches of the vaccine to the production process and the facilities for safety. The FDA also conducts b Numerous agencies also work together on a global level to track, collect and analyze data, to make sure these vaccines are, and remain, safe for the general population"

The Science Behind Vaccine Research and Testing

It is no wonder then, that one side says what we see going on is not science.

Even in respected science journals we see things that are more belief and opinion than objective.

" The authors suggest that Earth’s 1°C temperature rise over the past two centuries could largely be explained by the distance between Earth and the sun changing over time as the sun orbits around our solar system’s barycentre, its centre of mass. The phenomenon would see temperatures rise a further 3°C by 2600, they say.

..“The claim that we will see warming in the coming centuries because the sun will move closer to the Earth as it moves around the solar system barycentre is very simply wrong,” adds Rice. He is urging the journal to withdraw the paper"

Journal criticised for study claiming sun is causing global warming


This message is a reply to:
 Message 417 by Theodoric, posted 01-12-2022 4:56 PM Theodoric has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 419 by DrJones*, posted 01-12-2022 8:43 PM drlove has responded
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DrJones*
Member
Posts: 2197
From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada
Joined: 08-19-2004
Member Rating: 4.9


Message 419 of 480 (890967)
01-12-2022 8:43 PM
Reply to: Message 418 by drlove
01-12-2022 5:49 PM


Re: Forcing My Hand Towards Science
It is no wonder then, that one side says what we see going on is not science.

yes it's no wonder, as that side is populated with sister fucking hillbillies.

please show where any of the steps involved in certifying the vaccines were skipped.


It's not enough to bash in heads, you've got to bash in minds
soon I discovered that this rock thing was true
Jerry Lee Lewis was the devil
Jesus was an architect previous to his career as a prophet
All of a sudden i found myself in love with the world
And so there was only one thing I could do
Was ding a ding dang my dang along ling long - Jesus Built my Hotrod Ministry
Live every week like it's Shark Week! - Tracey Jordan
Just a monkey in a long line of kings. - Matthew Good
If "elitist" just means "not the dumbest motherfucker in the room", I'll be an elitist! - Get Your War On
*not an actual doctor

This message is a reply to:
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drlove
Member
Posts: 146
Joined: 01-02-2022
Member Rating: 1.2


Message 420 of 480 (890968)
01-12-2022 8:57 PM
Reply to: Message 419 by DrJones*
01-12-2022 8:43 PM


Re: Forcing My Hand Towards Science
The part about several years comes to mind

This message is a reply to:
 Message 419 by DrJones*, posted 01-12-2022 8:43 PM DrJones* has responded

Replies to this message:
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