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Author Topic:   An Ether-Based Creation Model
nwr
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Posts: 5789
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.7


(1)
Message 286 of 305 (887906)
08-25-2021 1:49 PM
Reply to: Message 285 by Michael MD
08-25-2021 1:20 PM


Re: Get Real.
However, in my Ether Model, ...

One of these days you will actually tell us what is your model, instead of giving only vague hints.

Hmm, on second thoughts, no you will never do that. You don't actually have a model.


Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

This message is a reply to:
 Message 285 by Michael MD, posted 08-25-2021 1:20 PM Michael MD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 288 by Michael MD, posted 08-30-2021 8:02 AM nwr has responded

  
PaulK
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Posts: 16962
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 287 of 305 (887909)
08-25-2021 2:42 PM
Reply to: Message 285 by Michael MD
08-25-2021 1:20 PM


Re: Get Real.
quote:
Since you raise the issue of the Michelson-Morley Experiment of 1887 (MMX), I'll go through how its results would be viewed using my Ether Model.

You mean you’ll show how you try to explain it away with your ignorant fantasies (which do not qualify as a model).

quote:
MMX attempted to show ether by demonstrating how light beams would interact with ether. -They assumed that any type of ether must act as a medium for the passage of light beams through it.

Incorrect. They knew that the ether was defined as the medium through which electromagnetic waves propagated. If your “ether” isn’t that, it isn’t the ether. I pointed this fact out long ago.

quote:
However, in my Ether Model, the ether is predominantly composed of ultimately-rarified elemental units, post-first-causal in origin, and vanishingly-smaller than the photons that transmit visible light beams. In my Model, there would be no inertial interface between these ether units and the photons. This would account for why MMX found no interaction between light beams and any conductive medium.

Let us note that you have no evidence for any of this. So, as I said, all you have is an ignorant fantasy. And that is all your not-ether not-model really is. Which is why science will ignore it - and rightly so.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 285 by Michael MD, posted 08-25-2021 1:20 PM Michael MD has not yet responded

  
Michael MD
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Posts: 44
Joined: 04-03-2021


Message 288 of 305 (888023)
08-30-2021 8:02 AM
Reply to: Message 286 by nwr
08-25-2021 1:49 PM


Re: Get Real.
nwr,

If you check back in to the early postings of this Thread, you can read my detailed description of this ether/creation model. -Other postings since then have only added refinements of various aspects of the model. Again, you should read my lengthy early posts to gain an understanding of the basic model.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 286 by nwr, posted 08-25-2021 1:49 PM nwr has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 291 by nwr, posted 08-30-2021 12:43 PM Michael MD has not yet responded
 Message 293 by Percy, posted 08-30-2021 4:16 PM Michael MD has not yet responded
 Message 295 by vimesey, posted 08-31-2021 4:49 AM Michael MD has responded

  
Phat
Inactive Member


Message 289 of 305 (888024)
08-30-2021 8:40 AM
Reply to: Message 271 by Michael MD
08-07-2021 11:12 AM


Re: Get Real.
MichaelMD writes:

This Thread has presented my Ether Model. Anyone taking the time to go through my earlier posts will see that my model covers a very wide range of cosmological and earth-based topics. By its very nature, the fact that my model is based on an ether makes it deviate from basic foundational theories of quantum physics. -Just the fact that physics still rejects the ether, alone, means that the last few posts, commenting on my mistake on a comparatively small detail of quantum theory, is beside the main point.

Hello Michael. I had not read this thread in some time, though was curious how your discussion was moving along.
MD writes:

  • By its very nature, the fact that my model is based on an ether makes it deviate from basic foundational theories of quantum physics.
  • -so aside from yourself, have no other researchers examined your hypothesis apart from you? I noticed that you mentioned Egg on the face to Percy as if you are expecting someway somehow to eventually be vindicated through acceptance of your controversial model. Do you honestly feel as if your understanding was/is an epiphany and that it will come to light?

    If so, I see similar patterns in my own fantasies beliefs, though in my case, I feel as if the faith-based community can understand my hypothesis and where I am going. The evidence-based community never will. Do you see yourself as a faith-based scientific speculator or do you think you can hang with the evidence-based crowd?


    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 271 by Michael MD, posted 08-07-2021 11:12 AM Michael MD has not yet responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 290 by ringo, posted 08-30-2021 11:59 AM Phat has responded

      
    ringo
    Member
    Posts: 19226
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005
    Member Rating: 3.7


    Message 290 of 305 (888032)
    08-30-2021 11:59 AM
    Reply to: Message 289 by Phat
    08-30-2021 8:40 AM


    Re: Get Real.
    Phat writes:

    Do you honestly feel as if your understanding was/is an epiphany and that it will come to light?


    Science doesn't work by epiphanies. Even epiphanies - I'm thinking of Kekulé and the structure of benzene - need to be confirmed experimentally.

    Phat writes:

    I feel as if the faith-based community can understand my hypothesis and where I am going. The evidence-based community never will.


    That's a false dichotomy. Many people of faith are also people of faith.

    And few people of faith are likely to swallow your nonsense. Your problem is that you keep trying to turn nonsense into sense. As long as you keep digging, you're just exposing more and more flaws in your thinking.


    "I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 289 by Phat, posted 08-30-2021 8:40 AM Phat has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 292 by Phat, posted 08-30-2021 2:35 PM ringo has responded

      
    nwr
    Member
    Posts: 5789
    From: Geneva, Illinois
    Joined: 08-08-2005
    Member Rating: 4.7


    Message 291 of 305 (888034)
    08-30-2021 12:43 PM
    Reply to: Message 288 by Michael MD
    08-30-2021 8:02 AM


    Re: Get Real.
    If you check back in to the early postings of this Thread, you can read my detailed description of this ether/creation model.

    Where? Can you list specific posts?

    I looked back at the first few posts. There is lots of word salad, flavored with a sprinkling of bullshit. But I do not see anything that hints at an actual model.


    Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 288 by Michael MD, posted 08-30-2021 8:02 AM Michael MD has not yet responded

      
    Phat
    Inactive Member


    Message 292 of 305 (888038)
    08-30-2021 2:35 PM
    Reply to: Message 290 by ringo
    08-30-2021 11:59 AM


    Re: Get Real.
    You make no sense.

    To wit:

    ringo writes:

    That's a false dichotomy. Many people of faith are also people of faith.

    And few people of faith are likely to swallow your nonsense.

    First off, you are not a person of faith. You think Jesus is an Elmer Gantry Compilation. Then you turn around and scold me for not listening to what the character in the book says.

    Just because I refuse to be an idiot and sell all that I have does not mean I don't otherwise listen to the character (whom I consider living and active)

    Perhaps you have faith in humanity....homeless folks who would likely give you a warm spot and meal due to your spare change generosity.

    I cannot really judge you as you feel driven to judge me.

    But explain your statement.

    ringo writes:

    Many people of faith are also people of faith.

    And few people of faith are likely to swallow your nonsense.


    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 290 by ringo, posted 08-30-2021 11:59 AM ringo has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 296 by ringo, posted 08-31-2021 11:59 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
    Percy
    Member
    Posts: 20219
    From: New Hampshire
    Joined: 12-23-2000
    Member Rating: 4.8


    Message 293 of 305 (888040)
    08-30-2021 4:16 PM
    Reply to: Message 288 by Michael MD
    08-30-2021 8:02 AM


    Re: Get Real.
    Michael MD writes:

    If you check back in to the early postings of this Thread, you can read my detailed description of this ether/creation model. -Other postings since then have only added refinements of various aspects of the model. Again, you should read my lengthy early posts to gain an understanding of the basic model.

    You mean like Message 1? It's full of nonsense and unverifiable claims.

    --Percy


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 288 by Michael MD, posted 08-30-2021 8:02 AM Michael MD has not yet responded

      
    Tangle
    Member
    Posts: 8200
    From: UK
    Joined: 10-07-2011
    Member Rating: 4.6


    Message 294 of 305 (888042)
    08-30-2021 6:46 PM


    It's well known fact that people with advanced theories of cosmology come here get them verified first. Obviously. Otherwise they'd look completely batshit crazy wouldn't they?

    Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

    "Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

    "Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
    Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
    - Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


      
    vimesey
    Member
    Posts: 1256
    From: Birmingham, England
    Joined: 09-21-2011
    Member Rating: 6.6


    (1)
    Message 295 of 305 (888043)
    08-31-2021 4:49 AM
    Reply to: Message 288 by Michael MD
    08-30-2021 8:02 AM


    Re: Get Real.
    OK, let's see how you fare with this one.

    I propose an alternative model - but instead of ether, mine involves Fluffy Invisible Blancmange (or FIB for ease).

    Let's see how mine works:

    My Creation Model is based on a theory of a universal FIB that underlies the quantum/atomic processes observable to us. Currently, there is a growing body of dissident physics theorists who claim that consensus physics is in error in holding that such a FIB does not exist. -Here, I will not try to go into all the aspects of this theoretical disconnect, but rather I will just present my FIB-based model of creation.

    In my Model, any FIB would have to be universal, by its very nature, and it would have had to originate according to a logical sequence of events. I propose that what came first was universal space, a "pure" space, free from everything else, such as forces. Thus, it could have been extremely self-compatible, such that small "localities" within it were reciprocally oscillating. These localities would have probably been of a very tiny size, and conceivably ultimately-minuscule ("point-like.") -Then, "points" adjacent to each other underwent oscillatory fatigue, and formed "Yin and Yang" couplets. (Oscillatory fatigue is a known process. It occurs in metals.) -This transition broke the perfect symmetry of oscillation, so that now there were ultimately-rarified ("elemental") point-like, or "etheric," units, which were now independently vibrating, rather than reciprocally oscillating.

    However, this transition would not have been uniform and simultaneous throughout space. Now there were, here and there, couplet-units which would have tended to merge, as their mutual matching vibrations contacted and combined with each other. (The idea here would be that the non-uniformity of this first-causal process would have included some areas where the motion of various units happened to be relatively linear, which would have accelerated the alignments of different units, causing the units to entrain with each other, producing larger and larger units, at first "FIB-like," and then up to the size-scale of quantum units and atoms.

    At this point., there would have been multiple fluxes of energy units moving in different directions. Like-to-like resonances would have tended to form confluences, or "islands," where extremely-intense, extremely-rarified, and complex energic processes occurred. Within such an "island," the combinations of energy units could even have produced quantization, and solid moieties. If one such moiety, or body, happened to be roundish in shape (or"cosmic egg" like), then any energic interactions of the body's outer surface with the FIB-like radiations in its surroundings, which happened to be tangential, could have resulted in reverberating circuits of energy around the body, which then could have produced a sapient Entity (ies).

    Eventually, the overall ongoing processes would have brought about a "FIB macrocosm." However, the effects of the transient type of magnetism of such a macrocosm upon any quantum bodies at such a quantized "island" would have made things unstable there, so it was decided to create a quantum macrocosm (our universe.) To accomplish this, electron/photons (the smallest and speediest quantum units) were projected, using the intense surrounding energies, toward a "virgin" FIB region, causing the FIB there to undergo a patterned, chain-reactional, transition to quantum units (as the electrons' motion through the FIB aligned the vibrations of FIB units, producing entrainments into larger units. (One effect of the electron/photon unit being used to create the universe would have been that its velocity (the speed of light) would have remained as the highest speed limit in the universe.)

    There you go - coincidentally, the same word salad and utter lack of equations, numbers and falsifiable hypotheses as yours - what are the odds ?

    The main difference is that my model better explains my slowly expanding stomach.


    Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 288 by Michael MD, posted 08-30-2021 8:02 AM Michael MD has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 297 by Michael MD, posted 09-01-2021 7:55 AM vimesey has not yet responded

      
    ringo
    Member
    Posts: 19226
    From: frozen wasteland
    Joined: 03-23-2005
    Member Rating: 3.7


    Message 296 of 305 (888044)
    08-31-2021 11:59 AM
    Reply to: Message 292 by Phat
    08-30-2021 2:35 PM


    Re: Get Real.
    Phat writes:

    You make no sense.


    I meant to say, "Many people of faith are also people of evidence."

    Phat writes:

    First off, you are not a person of faith. You think Jesus is an Elmer Gantry Compilation.


    That has nothing to do with anything I said, sensible or otherwise.

    But I DO have faith in the message - just like I have faith in gravity. Reality confirms that they work.

    It doesn't matter who the messenger is, whether it's Jesus or Elmer Gantry. The message works. And that's what matters.

    Phat writes:

    Then you turn around and scold me for not listening to what the character in the book says.


    I don't "scold" you for not doing what the messenger says. I point out that you ignore the message. You argue against the message. How does that demonstrate faith in the messenger?

    Phat writes:

    Just because I refuse to be an idiot and sell all that I have does not mean I don't otherwise listen to the character...


    Of course it does. If Jesus tells you to be an idiot, be an idiot.

    The disciples were idiots. The lady with two mites was an idiot. The widow who fed Elijah was an idiot. The members of the early church were idiots (except for Ananias and Sapphira, who were killed for not being idiots). Many members of monastic groups, Christian and non-Christian, are idiots.

    Jesus requires you to be an idiot. You can't get into heaven without being an idiot.

    Phat writes:

    I cannot really judge you as you feel driven to judge me.


    I'm not judging you. I'm pointing out how Jesus will judge you.

    Phat writes:

    But explain your statement.
    ringo writes:
    Many people of faith are also people of faith.

    And few people of faith are likely to swallow your nonsense.


    As I said, it was a gaffe. I meant to say, "Many people of faith are also people of evidence."

    But it works as written too: You claim to be a person of faith but you have no actual faith in Jesus. You don't trust Him to take care of you. You insist on taking care of yourself.

    I also said, "And few people of faith are likely to swallow your nonsense." That should be self-explanatory. The people who DO live the life that Jesus required - Christians and non-Christians - obviously don't agree with you that it can't be done.


    "I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 292 by Phat, posted 08-30-2021 2:35 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

      
    Michael MD
    Member
    Posts: 44
    Joined: 04-03-2021


    Message 297 of 305 (888049)
    09-01-2021 7:55 AM
    Reply to: Message 295 by vimesey
    08-31-2021 4:49 AM


    Re: Get Real.
    There are some tests that could be done in the field to test this ether model. So far, it has not had enough serious consideration in science to interest anyone to set up any kind of field tests. Monetary expense would be a factor, and I couldn't go it alone.

    The kind of test set up would be a bit different from conventional technology. Naturally-occurring resources would be included.


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 295 by vimesey, posted 08-31-2021 4:49 AM vimesey has not yet responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 298 by jar, posted 09-01-2021 8:31 AM Michael MD has responded
     Message 299 by Percy, posted 09-01-2021 7:19 PM Michael MD has not yet responded

      
    jar
    Member
    Posts: 33409
    From: Texas!!
    Joined: 04-20-2004
    Member Rating: 3.2


    (1)
    Message 298 of 305 (888050)
    09-01-2021 8:31 AM
    Reply to: Message 297 by Michael MD
    09-01-2021 7:55 AM


    Re: Get Real.
    LOL

    So list those resources and the method, process, procedure, steps that would be required and explain exactly what the results would show and how those results could be tested and verified.

    Maybe if at least one single post from you contained something more than word salad your idea would rise above the joke threshold.


    My Website: My Website

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 297 by Michael MD, posted 09-01-2021 7:55 AM Michael MD has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 300 by Michael MD, posted 09-03-2021 3:12 AM jar has responded

      
    Percy
    Member
    Posts: 20219
    From: New Hampshire
    Joined: 12-23-2000
    Member Rating: 4.8


    (2)
    Message 299 of 305 (888073)
    09-01-2021 7:19 PM
    Reply to: Message 297 by Michael MD
    09-01-2021 7:55 AM


    Re: Get Real.
    You and Phat are like brothers now. No matter what anyone says you just ignore it and ramble on and on as if loquacious, pigheaded ignorance were a virtue.

    --Percy


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 297 by Michael MD, posted 09-01-2021 7:55 AM Michael MD has not yet responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 305 by AnswersInGenitals, posted 09-03-2021 2:58 PM Percy has acknowledged this reply

      
    Michael MD
    Member
    Posts: 44
    Joined: 04-03-2021


    Message 300 of 305 (888100)
    09-03-2021 3:12 AM
    Reply to: Message 298 by jar
    09-01-2021 8:31 AM


    Re: Get Real.
    I couldn't give the details of the field test over the Internet. It would have to be a serious inquiry.

    This message is a reply to:
     Message 298 by jar, posted 09-01-2021 8:31 AM jar has responded

    Replies to this message:
     Message 301 by vimesey, posted 09-03-2021 6:05 AM Michael MD has not yet responded
     Message 302 by jar, posted 09-03-2021 6:30 AM Michael MD has not yet responded
     Message 303 by Percy, posted 09-03-2021 9:04 AM Michael MD has not yet responded

      
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