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Author Topic:   An Ether-Based Creation Model
vimesey
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Posts: 1306
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 436 of 566 (891143)
01-19-2022 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 433 by Michael MD
01-19-2022 7:20 AM


Re: You seem to be more confused than I thought.

Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

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dwise1
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Posts: 5060
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.8


Message 437 of 566 (891144)
01-19-2022 1:18 PM
Reply to: Message 433 by Michael MD
01-19-2022 7:20 AM


Re: You seem to be more confused than I thought.
The posts saying my Ether Model can't be tested have ignored my posts where I mention a possible field test that predicts effects of an ether (not directly demonstrating the ether, but, certain effects having been predicted, would be strong indirect evidence of its existence.

How could we have ever missed that, what with all your hand-waving and word salad constantly obstructing our view? Maybe if you were to write it down clearly and concisely then you might be able to convince somebody.

As I've said, such a test would be expensive, and no sponsor has been found to get it done.

So apply for a grant. What would ever make you think that we would be sources of such funding?

One of the key skills for research scientists is how to write a request for a grant. You obviously lack that skill, so I would recommend that you ally yourself with a research scientist, mostly likely a physicist, who can help you through that process. Of course, you would first have to convince him/her of any promise your ideas have, so yet again you would have to be able to present your ideas clearly and concisely. And show the math! (or at least the basis for the math)

Every path that you must take involves the same basic requirement: a clear and concise and cogent description of your ideas, preferably including some of the required math. Since we have seen no hints of any such description, we can safely assume that it does not exist. Create it! Until you do that, you have nothing.

Failing at that, I'm sure you could find a way to tap into some of that massive dark money swirling around in the Q-niverse. Maybe if you could pitch your experiment as being able to prove that Trump is indeed Jesus Christ.

During the Viet Nam period, I was an MD in the Army.

Did the Army recruit (or draft) you out of medical school, possibly early, and then train you for combat medicine? I don't know whether the US Army did that, though the military's demand for medical skills has always been high such that in the 80's MDs in their 60's and older were getting direct commissions. A similar thing happened to Frederick Banting with the Canadian Army in WWI when they fast-tracked medical students to get them in the field treating the wounded. After the war, Banting continued to practice as a surgeon until he turned his attention to the treatment of glycosuria and earned a Nobel Prize (the youngest laureate ever for Physiology/Medicine at 32) for treating diabetes with insulin.

 

I'm also reminded of that scene in M*A*S*H where Houlihan asks out loud how such a degenerate could have ever reached a position of responsibility in the US Army Medical Corps, to which the chaplain, "Dago Red", responds, "He was drafted."

Edited by dwise1, : Added "constantly obstructing our view" to my first sentence


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Tanypteryx
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Posts: 3274
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 438 of 566 (891179)
01-20-2022 6:55 PM
Reply to: Message 428 by dwise1
01-16-2022 1:15 PM


Re: You seem to be more confused than I thought.
dwise1 writes:

The basic ideas for the Model were obtained through codebreaking, of sets of codes, putatively enciphered by otherworldly sources.
[DWise1: my emphasis added]

OK, so ancient alien astronauts. Say no more, say no more (nudge, nudge, wink, wink).

I think he means angels, but what I want to know, do angels have hands at the ends of their wings or are they vertebrates with 6 appendages? And why do the alien astronauts have to be ancient?


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 428 by dwise1, posted 01-16-2022 1:15 PM dwise1 has replied

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dwise1
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Posts: 5060
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.8


(2)
Message 439 of 566 (891184)
01-20-2022 10:45 PM
Reply to: Message 438 by Tanypteryx
01-20-2022 6:55 PM


Re: You seem to be more confused than I thought.
And why do the alien astronauts have to be ancient?

Uh, because it's far more easier to explain away the lack of a paper trail before the invention of paper! Nu?

I think he means angels, but what I want to know, do angels have hands at the ends of their wings or are they vertebrates with 6 appendages?

My very first creationist encounter was live. He had a BS biology. He actually tried to claim that wings were sixth appendages instead of modified forelimbs, but then immediately realized his mistake.


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Son Goku
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Posts: 1207
From: Ireland
Joined: 07-16-2005
Member Rating: 4.8


(5)
Message 440 of 566 (891210)
01-21-2022 4:08 PM


Actual origin of QM
For anybody curious the actual origin of quantum theory is the emission spectrum of helium, i.e. the frequencies of light helium emits. People had tried to handle this problem by adding stochasticity (non-determinism) and discreteness into the Bohr-like Solar System models of the atom to no avail.

Heisenberg went to Helgoland in 1925 and took as his basis two empirical facts: the emission spectra of hydrogen first predicted by Bohr and the emission rates worked out by Einstein. Emission rates roughly being how rapidly hydrogen will give off a frequency of light when supplied with the energy to do so. His idea was that if he could find a framework where he could derive the emission rates from the spectrum then this framework would also be able to handle helium. He also imposed the requirement that the equations relating spectra and emission rates from classical electromagnetism continued to be true in the atomic regime.

So he had three ingrediants:
1. Bohr's Emission spectra
2. Einstein's Emission rates
3. The classical equations relating spectra and rates

He found the only way to feed 1 into 3 was by dropping the idea that electrons had positions or momenta, once he did that he could instantly compute 2 using 1 and 3.

Shortly after with Born and Jordan he expanded his new framework out from just spectra to an entirely new rewrite of mechanics.

Schrodinger came up with what initially seemed like a new theory, but was later shown by Born and Dirac to actually be identical to Heisenberg's formalism, just written in a different notation.

Bohr then tighten the framework by showing that the central point from which everything flowed was dropping the notion of observation independent properties, a central concept of everyday human thought. Physics was now a symbolism of atomic scale measurements, not a direct description of the atomic world.

Pauli and others then showed that Helium could be correctly handled by this new theory and thus by 1931 the new quantum mechanics was fully formulated.

Nothing to do with the ether.


Replies to this message:
 Message 441 by Michael MD, posted 01-23-2022 8:04 AM Son Goku has replied

  
Michael MD
Member
Posts: 102
Joined: 04-03-2021


Message 441 of 566 (891264)
01-23-2022 8:04 AM
Reply to: Message 440 by Son Goku
01-21-2022 4:08 PM


Re: Actual origin of QM
Does quantum consensus theory still hold to the "lattice" model of atoms? If not, how is an underlying ether still able to be dismissed?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 440 by Son Goku, posted 01-21-2022 4:08 PM Son Goku has replied

Replies to this message:
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Percy
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Posts: 20739
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


(3)
Message 442 of 566 (891268)
01-23-2022 10:47 AM
Reply to: Message 441 by Michael MD
01-23-2022 8:04 AM


Re: Actual origin of QM
Michael MD writes:

Does quantum consensus theory still hold to the "lattice" model of atoms?

I think you really meant to ask about one of the latticed models of condensed matter physics, such as the Icing model, the Mrs. Potts model, the XYZZY Adventure model or the Yoda lattice.

If not, how is an underlying ether still able to be dismissed?

It's dismissed in a manner similar to the way the Flying Spaghetti Monster is dismissed, apologies to you Pastafarians out there.

Though unlike the ether it can be difficult to dismiss the FSM, since we have actual images, like this one from an appearance in Denmark:

--Percy


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Son Goku
Member
Posts: 1207
From: Ireland
Joined: 07-16-2005
Member Rating: 4.8


(4)
Message 443 of 566 (891286)
01-23-2022 4:34 PM
Reply to: Message 441 by Michael MD
01-23-2022 8:04 AM


Re: Actual origin of QM
There's no such thing as the lattice model of atoms.
Modern physics can dismiss the ether by matching observations without it. Same as how it dismisses the caloric theory of heat.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 441 by Michael MD, posted 01-23-2022 8:04 AM Michael MD has replied

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Michael MD
Member
Posts: 102
Joined: 04-03-2021


Message 444 of 566 (891503)
02-01-2022 1:35 AM
Reply to: Message 443 by Son Goku
01-23-2022 4:34 PM


Re: Actual origin of QM
There is such a thing as the lattice theory of atoms in theoretical physics. Anyone interested in the status of the lattice theory can look it up on the Internet or in Wikipedia.

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 Message 445 by Percy, posted 02-01-2022 10:09 AM Michael MD has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20739
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 445 of 566 (891511)
02-01-2022 10:09 AM
Reply to: Message 444 by Michael MD
02-01-2022 1:35 AM


Re: Actual origin of QM
Michael MD writes:

There is such a thing as the lattice theory of atoms in theoretical physics. Anyone interested in the status of the lattice theory can look it up on the Internet or in Wikipedia.

From Wikipedia:

quote:
The page "Lattice theory of atoms" does not exist.

Are you perhaps thinking of crystal lattices: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crystal_structure

--Percy


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 Message 444 by Michael MD, posted 02-01-2022 1:35 AM Michael MD has replied

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 Message 446 by Michael MD, posted 02-03-2022 7:54 AM Percy has seen this message

  
Michael MD
Member
Posts: 102
Joined: 04-03-2021


Message 446 of 566 (891553)
02-03-2022 7:54 AM
Reply to: Message 445 by Percy
02-01-2022 10:09 AM


Re: Actual origin of QM
Percy,

I don't want to get deeply into lattice theory, inasmuch as, from the perspective of my ether model, it's just another aspect of consensus quantum theory, and my Ether Model has a fundamentally divergent perspective on theoretic permutations of quantum physics.

However, when I looked up "lattice, atom" on the Internet, and checked all the sub-references to it in Wikipedia, I found a number of sources dealing with it, including in Wikipedia. You have to stick with its sub-references to find them.


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Theodoric
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Posts: 7309
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 447 of 566 (891554)
02-03-2022 8:10 AM
Reply to: Message 446 by Michael MD
02-03-2022 7:54 AM


Re: Actual origin of QM
This is the perfect time for you to link to or explain the so called subreferences. But it will be fun to see an actual physicist destroy your bs.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


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Son Goku
Member
Posts: 1207
From: Ireland
Joined: 07-16-2005
Member Rating: 4.8


Message 448 of 566 (891564)
02-03-2022 12:01 PM
Reply to: Message 446 by Michael MD
02-03-2022 7:54 AM


Re: Actual origin of QM
Is it possible you are referring to the lattice model of certain solids? For example crystals are often modelled with the atoms mostly concentrated around nodes of a rigid grid.

This message is a reply to:
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AZPaul3
Member
Posts: 6626
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 449 of 566 (891572)
02-03-2022 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 448 by Son Goku
02-03-2022 12:01 PM


Re: Actual origin of QM
Oh, Son Goku, I don't think he's referring to anything in this universe. He apparently comes from a different reality.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

This message is a reply to:
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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3274
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.1


(2)
Message 450 of 566 (891577)
02-03-2022 5:11 PM
Reply to: Message 449 by AZPaul3
02-03-2022 1:29 PM


Re: Actual origin of QM
Oh, Son Goku, I don't think he's referring to anything in this universe. He apparently comes from a different reality.

Well, don't forget we're talking about a guy who thinks aliens gave him to a key to a code somewhere and that inspired his ether fantasy. I have to wonder why the aliens want HIM to know about the code and ether? What's in it for them? Why didn't they give the code to Stephen Hawking or someone who could actually understand it?


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 449 by AZPaul3, posted 02-03-2022 1:29 PM AZPaul3 has taken no action

Replies to this message:
 Message 451 by Michael MD, posted 02-04-2022 10:11 AM Tanypteryx has replied

  
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