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Author Topic:   An Ether-Based Creation Model
nwr
Member
Posts: 5972
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 3.3


Message 481 of 566 (892704)
03-12-2022 1:55 PM
Reply to: Message 479 by Michael MD
03-12-2022 1:31 PM


Re: Powerful Stuff
I believe the only way to demonstrate the ether using our available technologies would be to generate a selectively-etheric energy field, and measure the density of objects in the test system for decreased density.

That's about the same as saying that it requires a witch doctor to recite some mumbo-jumbo.

Or, in other words, it is nonsense.


Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

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Replies to this message:
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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3296
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


(2)
Message 482 of 566 (892706)
03-12-2022 2:22 PM
Reply to: Message 481 by nwr
03-12-2022 1:55 PM


Re: Powerful Stuff
Wait, wait, wait, we can do this.

I have some induction coils, and some huge lenses from an old map plotting table, and some laser pointers and some old motherboards. I mean, what more do we really need...oh yeah a digital LED read-out for the random number generator, when it reaches 1 million we will know we are seeing ether. I have a parabolic dish too, if we need one.

Has anyone got some solder?

ABE: Wow, I just realized that if we crossthread the magnetic fields with a sub-quantum erector we could use the ether as a communications medium!!

Edited by Tanypteryx, : No reason given.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 481 by nwr, posted 03-12-2022 1:55 PM nwr has seen this message

Replies to this message:
 Message 483 by Theodoric, posted 03-12-2022 2:25 PM Tanypteryx has replied
 Message 484 by dwise1, posted 03-12-2022 2:28 PM Tanypteryx has replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 7316
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 3.0


Message 483 of 566 (892708)
03-12-2022 2:25 PM
Reply to: Message 482 by Tanypteryx
03-12-2022 2:22 PM


Re: Powerful Stuff
I know a guy that is a ghost hunter. He has all sorts of scientific equipment that he has no idea how to use or what the readings are actually showing him. I am sure I could borrow a few things.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 482 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-12-2022 2:22 PM Tanypteryx has replied

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dwise1
Member
Posts: 5075
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.7


Message 484 of 566 (892710)
03-12-2022 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 482 by Tanypteryx
03-12-2022 2:22 PM


Re: Powerful Stuff
Doesn't it just make you long for the good old days? When all you needed were two metal rods angling up away from each other so that the electric discharge arc would creep up the ever widening gap.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 482 by Tanypteryx, posted 03-12-2022 2:22 PM Tanypteryx has replied

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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3296
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 485 of 566 (892711)
03-12-2022 2:28 PM
Reply to: Message 483 by Theodoric
03-12-2022 2:25 PM


Re: Powerful Stuff
Cool, this is coming together nicely!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 483 by Theodoric, posted 03-12-2022 2:25 PM Theodoric has taken no action

  
Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 3296
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 3.2


Message 486 of 566 (892712)
03-12-2022 2:29 PM
Reply to: Message 484 by dwise1
03-12-2022 2:28 PM


Re: Powerful Stuff
Jacob's ladders were mesmerizing!

What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 484 by dwise1, posted 03-12-2022 2:28 PM dwise1 has taken no action

Replies to this message:
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ringo
Member
Posts: 19530
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.8


(1)
Message 487 of 566 (892799)
03-14-2022 12:30 PM
Reply to: Message 486 by Tanypteryx
03-12-2022 2:29 PM


Re: Powerful Stuff
Tanypteryx writes:

Jacob's ladders were mesmerizing!


A lot of the props for Frankenstein's lab in the 1931 movie were supposedly borrowed from Nikola Tesla.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

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Stile
Member
Posts: 4071
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 488 of 566 (892875)
03-16-2022 12:04 PM
Reply to: Message 479 by Michael MD
03-12-2022 1:31 PM


Re: Powerful Stuff
Michael MD writes:

...generate a selectively-etheric energy field, and measure the density of objects in the test system for decreased density.

Are you saying that if you have a "selectively-etheric energy field...." then you can "remove the ether" from the object?
That's the only way to get the object's density to decrease... right?

How do you identify the ether in order to remove it in order to create a possible-density-reducing-scenario where you can identify ether?

It seems to me that you cannot build a "selectively-etheric energy field" without having already identified the ether.
Therefore... this cannot be your method for identifying or detecting the ether.

As well, if "removing some ether" from the object (without changing the object's size) actually decreases the density of the object... then the ether has mass.
Because that's what density is.

If the ether has mass... none of our calculations for physics that "ignore the mass of ether" (because they think it doesn't exist) will work in any vacuum or space-like environment where "no other mass" should be.

Yet - all our science and calculations for such things work extremely well and can be very, very precise - all the while ignoring any "extra mass" from this ether you've described that affects density.


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 Message 479 by Michael MD, posted 03-12-2022 1:31 PM Michael MD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 489 by dwise1, posted 03-16-2022 2:24 PM Stile has seen this message
 Message 490 by Michael MD, posted 03-17-2022 9:31 AM Stile has replied

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 5075
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 2.7


(1)
Message 489 of 566 (892879)
03-16-2022 2:24 PM
Reply to: Message 488 by Stile
03-16-2022 12:04 PM


Re: Powerful Stuff
How do you identify the ether in order to remove it in order to create a possible-density-reducing-scenario where you can identify ether?

It seems to me that you cannot build a "selectively-etheric energy field" without having already identified the ether.
Therefore... this cannot be your method for identifying or detecting the ether.

As well, if "removing some ether" from the object (without changing the object's size) actually decreases the density of the object... then the ether has mass.
Because that's what density is.

Reminds me of a friend at work, a hardware engineer (ie, EE) who had an interesting and irrefutable theory of how electronics works. All electronics is based on smoke. Every single electronics component contains smoke and that is what makes them work. As proof of this, if you let the smoke escape from a component (eg, resistor, capacitor, IC chip) then it stops working. So the trick in hardware design is to ensure that you keep the smoke inside the components.

Try to disprove that!

Of course, he was joking. But the training NCO of my digital data communications system repair shop on active duty was dead serious when he said that electronics works on "f*cking magic" (FM). And the really amazing stuff works on pure FM (PFM). Just to emphasize, he was very serious: "Nobody knows how electronics works. It's all just f*cking magic."

At the time, I was reading Isaac Asimov's Foundation for the first time. In the first novel the Foundation had been established at the edge of the galaxy as a repository of all the Galactic Empire's knowledge to keep it safe from the total collapse of galactic civilization about to happen -- with it civilization could recover in a few centuries but without it that would take thousands of years.

When the Foundation started exporting its technology, they cloaked it in the form of religion. Their barbaric neighbors would send their sons to be trained by the Foundation and those technician-priests would return to operate and maintain the Foundation machinery. Those technician-priests did not understand the science behind that technology; all they knew that in order to operate this particular device you chant the appropriate prayer and then press the red button and it would work every time. PFM!

When I read that, it explained that NCO's attitude to me and opened my eyes to many similar things. When pocket-sized electronic calculators hit the market in the late 1960's (I saw my first one in 1968, a four-banger that cost about $300), my father said that he knew exactly how it worked: "It has chips!" as if that explained everything -- 7 years later I learned how ICs work by reading ahead in the textbook for my DC theory class. Film and TV routinely ascribed mystical powers to computers, including that incredibly stupid YEC claim about a NASA computer which found "Joshua's Long Day" (that was one of two first YEC claims that I heard in 1970 and which informed me immediately how bogus YEC is -- in the late 80's that story resurfaced in a Sunday newspaper supplement).

 
Just for fun, here are a few other things that we USAF computer electronics technicians learned (all of them as jokes):

  • Inverters (1 -> 0 and 0 -> 1) contain a rotating platform such that electrons coming in (represented by a lower-case "e") would get flipped upside-down and exit inverted (represented by a "ə"). Tradition has it that inverter maintenance involves keeping the platform bearings properly lubricated, so you'd order a new technician fresh out of tech school to get you some platform bearing grease ("And be quick about it before this inverter burns out!")

  • How capacitors work to block DC but pass AC. The symbol for a capacitor is two short vertical parallel lines. Representing a DC level as a straight line, you show that it hits the block wall of the first line in the capacitor symbol and is stopped. But the AC signal (a sine wave) comes along and simply jumps over that wall, thus getting through.

  • Color electrons. Cathode ray tubes (CRTs) used to be ubiquitous as display devices before flat screens replaced them recently; your old TV and computer monitor used a CRT. Basically, they operate by having an electron gun (the cathode) emit a stream of electrons to hit a phosphorous screen (which glows when hit) and having electric deflectors directing that stream to specific points on the screen -- in a raster-scan display (eg, TVs) the deflection circuitry will cause the electron beam to scan across the screen while the intensity of the electron beam would vary thus creating an image.

    Color CRTs have three electron guns for red, green, and blue. While it's a matrix of different types of phosphorus on the screen that determines the colors, we were taught (as a joke) that the electrons come in those three different colors with the red gun shooting a beam of red electrons, the green gun green electrons, and the blue gun blue electrons.

  • The bit bucket. Shift registers perform multiplication and division by 2 by shifting its bits left or right, respectively. As the most/least significant bit gets shifted out of the register, some registers are designed to insert it into the other end of the register ("circular shift register", also "ring counter") but most simply drop that bit.

    While that "dropped bit" simply ceases to exist (since in reality a bit is abstract, being the representation of the state of a flip-flop or the logic level on a line in a data bus), this treatment treats each bit as real and concrete, so a bit could never just go away, but rather has to go somewhere. But where?

    Dropped bits fall into the bit bucket:


    quote:
    In computing jargon, the bit bucket (or byte bucket) is where lost computerized data has gone, by any means; any data which does not end up where it is supposed to, being lost in transmission, a computer crash, or the like, is said to have gone to the bit bucket – that mysterious place on a computer where lost data goes ...

    The bit bucket is described as residing at the bottom of a computer cabinet. A dreaded condition is the bit bucket becomes too full and you get a "bit bucket overflow", for which you urgently send a neophyte technician to get a special mop to clean up all those bits spilling out all over the floor.

    In our tech school block on teletype equipment, we studied punch tape in which holes would be punched into paper tape to represent data. The bits of paper punched out of the tape is called "chad" and is collected into a plastic container which needs to be emptied periodically. Our instructor pointed to that collection container and told us, "You remember being told about the 'bit bucket'? Well, there it is!"

There are a lot more. For example when we studied vacuum tubes and how heating the cathode results in thermionic emission of electrons resulting in the establishment of a space charge in the tube's vacuum. Our instructor then suggested that the Enterprise's warp nacelles were space magnets which took advantage of space charge to propel the ship. Since that was in 1977, it was as good an explanation as any other that was available at the time (we've learned a lot more about warp drive technology since then).

This message is a reply to:
 Message 488 by Stile, posted 03-16-2022 12:04 PM Stile has seen this message

Replies to this message:
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Michael MD
Member
Posts: 102
Joined: 04-03-2021


Message 490 of 566 (892889)
03-17-2022 9:31 AM
Reply to: Message 488 by Stile
03-16-2022 12:04 PM


Re: Powerful Stuff
To answer your leading question, to generate a selectively etheric field, you would not "remove ether from the field."

The basic idea of my Ether Model is that in our world, we are able to perceive and generate forces mediated by quantum-scale energy units: electrons and photons mainly. But underlying the world of quantum forces and their dynamics, involving distance-vectors and the behavior of quantum units, there exists a different dynamic, involving much-smaller etheric units, which operate via a different, vibratory, type of dynamic.

This ether dynamic world is connected with the overlying quantum world through the effect of ether units contacting each other vibrationally, forming larger and larger units, up to the size scale of the quantum units.

I have described this in detail in my earlier posts. -To answer your question, if you were to generate a selectively etheric field, the ether could not be "removed," inasmuch as it is the essential basic component of our familiar quantum world. Instead, you would have to have a way of inducing a higher proportion of ether units within the atoms of objects making up the test system, so that they have relatively more ether-scale units, and comparatively less of the larger quantum units.


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 Message 488 by Stile, posted 03-16-2022 12:04 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 493 by Stile, posted 03-17-2022 2:16 PM Michael MD has replied

  
Michael MD
Member
Posts: 102
Joined: 04-03-2021


(1)
Message 491 of 566 (892890)
03-17-2022 10:02 AM
Reply to: Message 489 by dwise1
03-16-2022 2:24 PM


Re: Powerful Stuff
This reply is not directly connected with your post, which was directed toward Stile's prior post, but incidentally, what caught my attention was how you described your great interest in Isaac Asimov and his "Foundations."

In the early 1960s, I sat in a medical school (Boston Univ.) biochemistry class he gave a series of lectures to (I. Azimov was, at the time, a well known author, but was still a member of the medical school's faculty there.) I can still recall his lecture style, which typefied native New Yorkers, quite different from the typically-more-formal, more-staid, style of our other, mostly-Boston-area, lecturers. Of course, all of us in the class had heard of him in the context of his writings in science. He had a very prominent mane of thick black hair that also sticks in my memory. -He lectured entirely on biochemistry. He never mentioned that he was a famous author of somewhat-unique scientific books.


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Son Goku
Member
Posts: 1207
From: Ireland
Joined: 07-16-2005
Member Rating: 5.2


Message 492 of 566 (892891)
03-17-2022 10:11 AM
Reply to: Message 475 by Percy
03-11-2022 9:11 AM


Re: To summarize the most basic partsRe: Actual origin of QM
Hi Percy,

It took me a while to get a copy of the article since most universities here don't stock the magazine. I just had to check it was what I thought it was.

So this 4/3 problem is fairly common in classical treatments of systems involving electromagnetism. It's generic in that you commonly get 4/3 times the correct experimental answer when classical electrodynamics is applied to many relativistic situations. It doesn't just apply to E = mc^2 but to a few other cases as well. Sometimes it's 8/3 or more rarely other constants.

It's completely fixed when you model the matter correctly, either by including quantum mechanical or thermodynamical effects. Rothman and some others say this isn't a proper answer since it involves components outside of classical electrodynamics and thus doesn't solve it in the manner that respects Hasenöhrl's original set up. And so classical electrodynamics seems to say E = mc^2 in general but it's also giving you E = 4/3mc^2 in some situations and thus contradicting itself.

Yeah to be honest most of us don't really care/ignore the issue of seeking total internal consistency in a theory we know to be wrong in that regime anyway. If it was still showing up in quantum electrodynamics then we would care, but the issue of how to make classical electrodynamics internally consistent isn't pressing. Classical Mechanics has tons of self-contradictions and paradoxes that only QM resolves anyway.


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 Message 475 by Percy, posted 03-11-2022 9:11 AM Percy has replied

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Stile
Member
Posts: 4071
From: Ontario, Canada
Joined: 12-02-2004
Member Rating: 3.1


Message 493 of 566 (892898)
03-17-2022 2:16 PM
Reply to: Message 490 by Michael MD
03-17-2022 9:31 AM


Re: Powerful Stuff
Michael MD writes:

To answer your leading question, to generate a selectively etheric field, you would not "remove ether from the field."

I think you misunderstood.
That's not what I explained - but I don't think it matters anyway.

...the ether could not be "removed," inasmuch as it is the essential basic component of our familiar quantum world. Instead, you would have to have a way of inducing a higher proportion of ether units within the atoms of objects making up the test system, so that they have relatively more ether-scale units, and comparatively less of the larger quantum units.

Fair enough... you're introducing more ether and then the density of the object goes down.

So... you're saying that ether has negative mass?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 490 by Michael MD, posted 03-17-2022 9:31 AM Michael MD has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 495 by Michael MD, posted 03-30-2022 8:17 AM Stile has replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 20761
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 2.2


Message 494 of 566 (892911)
03-18-2022 12:35 PM
Reply to: Message 492 by Son Goku
03-17-2022 10:11 AM


Re: To summarize the most basic partsRe: Actual origin of QM
Oh, very interesting. Either I didn't understand the article or it didn't make clear that the 4/3 issue only applies to classical solutions. But there was no QM in 1905 when Einstein wrote his paper presenting his own derivation of the equation, so I wonder how he justified leaving out the 4/3. I recall the article talked about that so I'll go back and see what it says.

--Percy


This message is a reply to:
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Michael MD
Member
Posts: 102
Joined: 04-03-2021


Message 495 of 566 (893169)
03-30-2022 8:17 AM
Reply to: Message 493 by Stile
03-17-2022 2:16 PM


Re: Powerful Stuff
Your question as to my concept of the ether, and "whether it has negative mass" is not relevant, because of my concept of how the ether arose. This derivation indicates that the ether has no mass. "Mass" is a concept pertaining to quantum theory, but not to my ether theory.

Possibly you haven't gone through my discussion of the ether's logical origin at the start of this thread, or didn't assimilate it fully, if you did go through it.

The rationale, here, is that 1) if an ether exists, it would have to be universal, 2) if universal, the ether would have to have arisen first-causally, before anything else happened, and 3) the only possible first-causal substrate to form an ether had to be original space. In my Ether Model, because of the way they had to form, units of the ether are massless.

I won't repeat the whole discussion of how my Model claims an ether formed. -You can look it up, near the beginning of this thread, if you wish to.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 493 by Stile, posted 03-17-2022 2:16 PM Stile has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 496 by Stile, posted 03-31-2022 9:01 AM Michael MD has replied

  
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