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Author Topic:   An Ether-Based Creation Model
anglagard
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Posts: 2335
From: Socorro, New Mexico USA
Joined: 03-18-2006
Member Rating: 6.4


(2)
Message 121 of 305 (885954)
04-29-2021 5:11 PM
Reply to: Message 117 by Michael MD
04-29-2021 1:31 PM


Re: Death to MMX
Michael MD writes:

My private research indicates that, in order to elicit physical evidence of an ether, you would need a new kind of approach, eschewing traditional kinds of laboratory investigations, and instead attempt to elicit etheric forces from natural earth sources.

With this "natural earth sources" you are not only idiotically lecturing Son Goku about physics, You are also starting to intrude into my turf. As a former librarian, I know what is happening here. Just because med school is filled with insufferable egotists, that does not grant anyone the superpower of knowing everything about everything. Before you lecture us about any ethereal ether, it would be best to master this:

Wave Functions

Source: BCcampus Open Publishing

Until then, I suggest you rethink any speculations you may have concerning matters which are freely available to all which you apparently can't be bothered to research. Also, I must ask as some have already and most of us will eventually, where's the math?

So, where do we go from here? One can freely speculate, but in order to communicate anything worthwhile, one must have the requisite chops needed. Until then, mere accountants, plumbers, carpenters (!) and medical doctors are not qualified to lecture either doctors of physics, or, for that matter, even a decent research librarian, unless they do the additional hard work required.

Creating a new theory of physical science that may be considered valid wholecloth out of nothing previously observed is not for amateurs, learn first, talk later.


The problem with knowing everything is learning nothing.

If you don't know what you're doing, find someone who does, and do what they do.

Republican = death


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nwr
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Posts: 5805
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.6


(4)
Message 122 of 305 (885955)
04-29-2021 5:57 PM


A summary of the model thus far
To help us follow this discussion, I thought I would post a summary of the model, as presented.

--- start of summary ---
--- end of summary ---

And no, there isn't anything missing between the "start" line and the "end" line.


Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

Replies to this message:
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AZPaul3
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Posts: 6020
From: Phoenix
Joined: 11-06-2006
Member Rating: 3.7


(2)
Message 123 of 305 (885957)
04-29-2021 8:37 PM
Reply to: Message 122 by nwr
04-29-2021 5:57 PM


Re: A summary of the model thus far
Very precise and well put. I do appreciate your brevity while capturing the greater import of the model. Though I do have some questions about that part in the middle.

Eschew obfuscation. Habituate elucidation.

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ringo
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Posts: 19252
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.0


(2)
Message 124 of 305 (885967)
04-30-2021 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 123 by AZPaul3
04-29-2021 8:37 PM


Re: A summary of the model thus far
AZPaul3 writes:

Though I do have some questions about that part in the middle.


You have to read between the lines.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

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dwise1
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Posts: 4715
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 4.7


Message 125 of 305 (885971)
04-30-2021 1:05 PM
Reply to: Message 123 by AZPaul3
04-29-2021 8:37 PM


Re: A summary of the model thus far
The classic cartoon shows a scientist reviewing another scientist's work on the chalk board. On the left are the premises and on the left are the results, but in the middle it just says in large letters: "Something happens."

The reviewer suggests: "I think that part needs to be developed more." (or "That part needs more work." ... it's been more than 3 decades since I last saw it)


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kjsimons
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Posts: 734
From: Orlando,FL
Joined: 06-17-2003


Message 126 of 305 (885972)
04-30-2021 1:17 PM
Reply to: Message 125 by dwise1
04-30-2021 1:05 PM


Re: A summary of the model thus far
That's an old Sydney Harris comic, here's a link to one of the many hundreds of copies of it.

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Michael MD
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Posts: 44
Joined: 04-03-2021


Message 127 of 305 (886338)
05-16-2021 3:25 AM
Reply to: Message 26 by Tanypteryx
04-13-2021 4:34 PM


Re: Stop and smell the aether
As I reviewed this Message, I thought of how a couple of questions might be clarified, as to how my Ether Model views them.

As to Michelson-Morley et al experiments (MMX), I claim they falsely assumed that any ether would interact with their measurements of beams of light. -You ask what I meant by there being "no inertial interface" between the ether I propose, and the photons that transmit visible light beams. This meant that the elemental ether units, that would have formed first-causally, and that make up the preponderance of the ether, are vanishingly smaller than the photons. The photon merely "brushes them aside," inertially, as it moves, so the light beams and the ether don't interact as MMX assumes. However, the photon, like any quantum unit, nevertheless still "feels" these ether units, and their vibratory pattern, vibrationally. -That is behind my model's explanation for quantum entanglement.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by Tanypteryx, posted 04-13-2021 4:34 PM Tanypteryx has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 128 by nwr, posted 05-16-2021 12:50 PM Michael MD has not yet responded
 Message 129 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-16-2021 1:29 PM Michael MD has responded

  
nwr
Member
Posts: 5805
From: Geneva, Illinois
Joined: 08-08-2005
Member Rating: 4.6


(1)
Message 128 of 305 (886349)
05-16-2021 12:50 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by Michael MD
05-16-2021 3:25 AM


Re: Stop and smell the aether
As to Michelson-Morley et al experiments (MMX), I claim they falsely assumed that any ether would interact with their measurements of beams of light.

This does not make sense.

The reasons that scientists considered the ether, was to explain the apparent wave properties of light. So the whole purpose of ether theory had to do with its relation to light.

So now you deny that there is any relation to light.

In effect, you are agreeing with the Michelson-Morley conclusion, that ether (as they understood it) does not exist.

The most charitable view I can take, is that you are interested only in the word "ether", and that you are giving it an entirely different meaning. But you seem to want to keep that meaning secret. You won't tell us anything about your ether, though you have been asked.

If you want to keep it secret, why did you open a discussion thread here? It makes no sense at all.


Fundamentalism - the anti-American, anti-Christian branch of American Christianity

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Tanypteryx
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Posts: 2578
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 6.0


(2)
Message 129 of 305 (886350)
05-16-2021 1:29 PM
Reply to: Message 127 by Michael MD
05-16-2021 3:25 AM


Re: Stop and smell the aether
This meant that the elemental ether units,

Would those be etherons?

that would have formed first-causally,

Can you explain what this means?

and that make up the preponderance of the ether, are vanishingly smaller than the photons.

What percentage is preponderance? So what size is a photon? And what value does vanishingly smaller represent?

The photon merely "brushes them aside," inertially, as it moves, so the light beams and the ether don't interact as MMX assumes.

Wait, I thought MMX concluded ether and light don't interact.

That is behind my model's explanation for quantum entanglement.

What is quantum entanglement and what is your model's explanation for it?


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 127 by Michael MD, posted 05-16-2021 3:25 AM Michael MD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 130 by Michael MD, posted 05-17-2021 7:21 AM Tanypteryx has responded

  
Michael MD
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Posts: 44
Joined: 04-03-2021


Message 130 of 305 (886363)
05-17-2021 7:21 AM
Reply to: Message 129 by Tanypteryx
05-16-2021 1:29 PM


Re: Stop and smell the aether
In my Ether Model, any ether would have to be universal, by its very nature. That is why it would have originated first-causally. (This part of my model is given in my opening post on page one of this Thread.)

According to the ether model I work with, there are two kinds of ether units: elemental units, which are extremely tiny, and less-predominant ether units I call "etheroidal," which are formed as elemental units combine via a vibratory-contact mechanism (when any linear force happens to affect un-energized, randomly-vibrating, small ether units, their vibrations become more aligned, which causes them to entrain into larger and larger ether units.)

In my model , etheroidal units are the basis of gravitational attraction. -If one considers two solid bodies that are being attracted gravitationally, their interiors contain quantum and atomic units that are bound to each other. However, ether also exists inside the two bodies (ether is universal, existing all around us and inside us.) Inside the two solid bodies, the etheroidal units, that are there as part of the ether component of the interiors of the bodies, are able to "leak" outside of the surface of the bodies, being smaller than the quantum/atomic units of the bodies at the surface. Entering the space between the two bodies, the "near-quantal" properties of these etheroidal units converts the space between the two bodies, from a state where un-energized ether units are quietly vibrating in a random fashion, to a state where ether units are more aligned with each other, effectively partially quantizing this space. This also means that the elemental ether units in the space are no longer vibrating randomly, but rather are increasingly in vibratory contact with each other, which, overall, contracts the ether between the two bodies, drawing them toward each other gravitationally.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 129 by Tanypteryx, posted 05-16-2021 1:29 PM Tanypteryx has responded

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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2578
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 6.0


Message 131 of 305 (886372)
05-17-2021 4:28 PM
Reply to: Message 130 by Michael MD
05-17-2021 7:21 AM


Re: Stop and smell the aether
That is behind my model's explanation for quantum entanglement.

What is quantum entanglement and what is your model's explanation for it?

According to the ether model I work with, there are two kinds of ether units: elemental units, which are extremely tiny, and less-predominant ether units I call "etheroidal," which are formed as elemental units combine via a vibratory-contact mechanism (when any linear force happens to affect un-energized, randomly-vibrating, small ether units, their vibrations become more aligned, which causes them to entrain into larger and larger ether units.)

You make some specific statements about ether units here that would seem impossible for you to know, since you cannot tell us how to detect ether. What observations led you to this insight?

In my model , etheroidal units are the basis of gravitational attraction

How did you determine this?


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 130 by Michael MD, posted 05-17-2021 7:21 AM Michael MD has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 132 by Michael MD, posted 05-18-2021 7:36 AM Tanypteryx has responded
 Message 133 by Michael MD, posted 05-18-2021 8:18 AM Tanypteryx has not yet responded

  
Michael MD
Member
Posts: 44
Joined: 04-03-2021


Message 132 of 305 (886375)
05-18-2021 7:36 AM
Reply to: Message 131 by Tanypteryx
05-17-2021 4:28 PM


Re: Stop and smell the aether
You are correct, I derived my basic ideas about the ether from an outside source, via a long term codebreaking study. (If you check through this Thread, you can find where I described this more fully in an earlier post.)

This message is a reply to:
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Replies to this message:
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Michael MD
Member
Posts: 44
Joined: 04-03-2021


Message 133 of 305 (886376)
05-18-2021 8:18 AM
Reply to: Message 131 by Tanypteryx
05-17-2021 4:28 PM


Re: Stop and smell the aether
To answer your other question, "how did I determine" that the etheroidal ether units in my Ether Model are the key to gravitational attraction? - Part of my answer is that I inferred this from studying the code source I just mentioned.

In this model of gravity, there would be a steady "leakage" of the larger-sized etheric (and thus "almost quantal,") etheroidal units from the surface of the two solid bodies. The ether, from an overall standpoint, would be steadily "trying" to "correct" what it "perceives" as "new gaps" in the ether, between the two bodies, in order to to restore the same state the ether has in outside space, but never quite doing it, due to the ongoing stream of etheroidal units from the interiors of the solid bodies. -The result is that there are two opposing forces producing the "pull" of gravitation, which makes it a less forceful form of energy than forces like magnetism, but gravity maintains its lesser force, and maintains itself, through equilibrating with the other cosmic forces and unit-moieties in the region.


This message is a reply to:
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Son Goku
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Posts: 1181
From: Ireland
Joined: 07-16-2005


Message 134 of 305 (886377)
05-18-2021 8:41 AM


Entanglement
Yeah as mentioned above Entanglement doesn't need an explanation, since we already have one.

Most people here will be familiar with correlations. Bell, CHSH* and others have set up a variety of scenarios where you test two or more systems, by measuring two or more properties of each and then checking the correlations between them. If you assume the quantities have values prior to your measurement then you can show the correlations must be less than some number (2 in the case of the CHSH scenario).

When you perform the tests in real life the values are greater than this number. Hence the unusually strong correlations in QM are explained by measured quantities not having values outside of measurement, sometimes called the violation of "realism" although I don't like that name much.

*Four physicists: Clauser-Horne-Shimony-Holt

Edited by Son Goku, : No reason given.


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Tanypteryx
Member
Posts: 2578
From: Oregon, USA
Joined: 08-27-2006
Member Rating: 6.0


(1)
Message 135 of 305 (886379)
05-18-2021 11:58 AM
Reply to: Message 132 by Michael MD
05-18-2021 7:36 AM


Re: Stop and smell the aether
You are correct, I derived my basic ideas about the ether from an outside source, via a long term codebreaking study. (If you check through this Thread, you can find where I described this more fully in an earlier post.)

Oh, I didn't think you were serious. That's pretty impressive that you knew exactly where the code was hidden.


What if Eleanor Roosevelt had wings? -- Monty Python

One important characteristic of a theory is that is has survived repeated attempts to falsify it. Contrary to your understanding, all available evidence confirms it. --Subbie

If evolution is shown to be false, it will be at the hands of things that are true, not made up. --percy

The reason that we have the scientific method is because common sense isn't reliable. -- Taq


This message is a reply to:
 Message 132 by Michael MD, posted 05-18-2021 7:36 AM Michael MD has not yet responded

  
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