Register | Sign In


Understanding through Discussion


EvC Forum active members: 50 (9179 total)
3 online now:
Newest Member: Jorge Parker
Post Volume: Total: 918,207 Year: 5,464/9,624 Month: 489/323 Week: 129/204 Day: 3/26 Hour: 0/0


Thread  Details

Email This Thread
Newer Topic | Older Topic
  
Author Topic:   Coffee House Musing
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9361
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 376 of 381 (913008)
10-08-2023 10:55 AM
Reply to: Message 374 by Phat
10-08-2023 8:26 AM


Re: Strong Evidence of Humans in N. America 21K-23K Years Ago
The indigenous tribes that Europeans made contact with were the barer remnants of the societies that existed a few hundred years before. Many of the indigenous societies were destroyed by disease well before actual contact with Europeans. The latest scholarship puts that number at 80-90%+ of the native population was wiped out by disease. The vast majority before their groups made actual contact with Europeans. The disease spread like dominos falling throughout the Americas.
The scholarship also shows that the majority were stewards of nature. The tribes of the upper Great Lakes actively managed the pine forests of the area. The great grasslands of the American plains were also actively managed also.
By "conquer nature" I meant destroying the world around them. I did not mean violence toward other people. Again the fact that these societies went from fairly sophisticated to subsistence in a generation had a great effect on their relationship with other people.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 374 by Phat, posted 10-08-2023 8:26 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 379 by Phat, posted 10-08-2023 1:46 PM Theodoric has not replied

  
Theodoric
Member
Posts: 9361
From: Northwest, WI, USA
Joined: 08-15-2005
Member Rating: 2.6


Message 377 of 381 (913009)
10-08-2023 10:59 AM
Reply to: Message 375 by Percy
10-08-2023 9:29 AM


Re: Strong Evidence of Humans in N. America 21K-23K Years Ago
But those societies that the Europeans were in contact with from 1500 on were not the same societies that existed prior to European contact.
Disease had wiped out millions across the Americas between 1492 and 1600.

What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence. -Christopher Hitchens

Facts don't lie or have an agenda. Facts are just facts

"God did it" is not an argument. It is an excuse for intellectual laziness.

If your viewpoint has merits and facts to back it up why would you have to lie?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 375 by Percy, posted 10-08-2023 9:29 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 378 by Percy, posted 10-08-2023 11:27 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
Percy
Member
Posts: 22694
From: New Hampshire
Joined: 12-23-2000
Member Rating: 3.7


Message 378 of 381 (913011)
10-08-2023 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 377 by Theodoric
10-08-2023 10:59 AM


Re: Strong Evidence of Humans in N. America 21K-23K Years Ago
I wonder why disease didn't flow in both directions? I've heard that American Indians passed syphilis to Europeans, but not any others.
--Percy

This message is a reply to:
 Message 377 by Theodoric, posted 10-08-2023 10:59 AM Theodoric has not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 380 by NosyNed, posted 10-08-2023 1:57 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18450
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.0


Message 379 of 381 (913012)
10-08-2023 1:46 PM
Reply to: Message 376 by Theodoric
10-08-2023 10:55 AM


Re: Strong Evidence of Humans in N. America 21K-23K Years Ago
You taught me something. I appreciate that.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 376 by Theodoric, posted 10-08-2023 10:55 AM Theodoric has not replied

  
NosyNed
Member
Posts: 9007
From: Canada
Joined: 04-04-2003


(4)
Message 380 of 381 (913013)
10-08-2023 1:57 PM
Reply to: Message 378 by Percy
10-08-2023 11:27 AM


Disease this way and that
Diamond in "Guns, Germs and Steel" suggests that because the old world civilizations had greater population densities it allowed for more diseases to arise and resistance to them to built up.
With lower densities and widely spaced villages a disease might kill off the whole village and not get a chance to spread.
This way serious diseases can build up and along with them some degree of population immunity or at least resistance.
If you mix those 2 different populations one suffers a lot more.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 378 by Percy, posted 10-08-2023 11:27 AM Percy has seen this message but not replied

  
LamarkNewAge
Member
Posts: 2496
Joined: 12-22-2015
Member Rating: 1.4


Message 381 of 381 (917926)
04-20-2024 2:19 AM
Reply to: Message 54 by LamarkNewAge
08-22-2021 9:17 PM


Re: 19 June 2018 Physics World covers the scientists who point out the averaging problem.
quote:
There is also the question of whether lumpy sections of the Universe see space expand like ithey do s in the vast void areas.
‚Äč
Back to the difference between space with particles and space without and the relative effects of the interaction with Dark Energy.
This is the one possibility that could save the Cosmological Constant.
The only one.
Any alternatives?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 54 by LamarkNewAge, posted 08-22-2021 9:17 PM LamarkNewAge has not replied

  
Newer Topic | Older Topic
Jump to:


Copyright 2001-2023 by EvC Forum, All Rights Reserved

™ Version 4.2
Innovative software from Qwixotic © 2024