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Author Topic:   Who's the bigger offender: Conservatives or Liberals?
ringo
Member
Posts: 19252
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 46 of 342 (886227)
05-11-2021 10:41 AM
Reply to: Message 45 by Phat
05-10-2021 11:41 PM


Re: free speech
Phat writes:

And I'm a political moderate...I'm neither pro nor anti-Trump.


No you're not. If you're not anti-Trump, you're no moderate.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 45 by Phat, posted 05-10-2021 11:41 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 47 by Phat, posted 05-11-2021 11:05 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19252
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 50 of 342 (886231)
05-11-2021 2:29 PM
Reply to: Message 48 by Phat
05-11-2021 11:26 AM


Phat writes:

But I'm not gonna follow your path of personal responsibility simply because the rest of the left leaning crowd does. They make it mandatory and would make the way of 52% the law for everyone.


Liar. Nobody but you has said anything about getting the government involved.

Phat writes:

And I don't care if you all argue that the Jesus of the book also suggested mandatory compliance.


He didn't "suggest" it. He said it's a requirement for salvation.

Phat writes:

You will never marry Jesus and empathetic liberalism.


They've already been married for 2000 years.

Phat writes:

Call me a Nazi, but I will resist...


Yes, you've made it clear that you will never accept Jesus.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 48 by Phat, posted 05-11-2021 11:26 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19252
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 60 of 342 (886284)
05-13-2021 10:55 AM
Reply to: Message 57 by Phat
05-12-2021 11:57 PM


Re: The New Boss?
Phat writes:

I DO like Ben Shapiro. He is articulate and he rankles the ire of the trans genders who claim they get to define their gender.


And that's a good thing? It seems to me that you guys have entirely too much ire-rankling.

Phat writes:

Ben argues that basic biology determines that rather than inner feelings.


Have you ever studied any foreign languages? Specifically, languages where gender is significant? In French, for example, the word for "cat" is always feminine and the word for "dog" is always masculine. The gender has nothing to do with the actual sex of the beast.

So Ben Shapiro doesn't know what he's talking about.

Phat writes:

Dont punish a particular race for the sins of their forefathers....


So if your father died without paying off the mortgage on the house, the bank should just write it off? That's not much of a capitalist attitude. Even I would say that if the children get the benefits of their fathers' deeds, they should pay the price.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 57 by Phat, posted 05-12-2021 11:57 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 79 by Phat, posted 05-15-2021 8:39 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19252
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 81 of 342 (886325)
05-15-2021 9:15 PM
Reply to: Message 79 by Phat
05-15-2021 8:39 PM


Re: The New Boss?
Phat writes:

It certainly could never be calculated nor applied to large people groups...


Why not?

Phat writes:

... in any way that wouldnt start a war.


You seem awfully eager to start a war.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 79 by Phat, posted 05-15-2021 8:39 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19252
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 82 of 342 (886326)
05-15-2021 9:19 PM
Reply to: Message 80 by Phat
05-15-2021 8:54 PM


Re: Reexamining the question
Phat writes:

Yes, the house should be paid off by the children if they hoped to keep it. What should never happen is that the bank sends the children a letter saying that my father got an unfairly good deal and that in order to keep the house we pay more than the original terms.


What's the difference?

If the children inherited an unfair advantage, why shouldn't they pay for it? You're using Trump mathematics: "I got ahead somehow, so stop counting and let me keep my lead."


"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 80 by Phat, posted 05-15-2021 8:54 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 84 by Phat, posted 05-16-2021 12:02 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19252
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 88 of 342 (886348)
05-16-2021 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 84 by Phat
05-16-2021 12:02 AM


Re: Reexamining the question
Phat writes:

The issue is that the bank is in no position to judge.


That's not the issue at all.

The issue is whether or not society "should" pay. Even when nobody can force society to pay, "should" society do the right thing?

Phat writes:

Banks are not judges. They make contracts and collect interest. Period.


See above.

Phat writes:

Nor is the government. Thats why issues such as this will never become law.


If not, it's because society wants to weasel out of its debts.

The question is: Why do you advocate weaseling? Why are you so dead-set against doing the right thing?

Phat writes:

Im just warning those listening that one never touches another mans stack.


Jesus told you to give up your stack. I'm sure those listening appreciate you warning them against Jesus.

Phat writes:

The government is not nor ever will be Jesus.


I don't know why you keep bringing up the government.

Phat writes:

And He is the ONLY One who can touch my assets.


Clearly not. You have repeatedly refused to give them up for Him.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 84 by Phat, posted 05-16-2021 12:02 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 90 by Phat, posted 05-16-2021 3:26 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19252
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


(3)
Message 94 of 342 (886358)
05-16-2021 9:33 PM
Reply to: Message 90 by Phat
05-16-2021 3:26 PM


Re: Reexamining the question
Phat writes:

Only if society can agree on who it should pay and whether such a value amount can even be determined.


Of course. Who suggested otherwise?

But you seem to suggest that the very idea is outrageous and that you will fight it tooth and nail.

Phat writes:

I say just leave things in the past as they were, fair or unfair...quit catering to special interest groups who whine about being treated unfair...


We're not talking about "special interest groups". We're talking about one group of people that was grotesquely mistreated by another group and you're violently opposed to the idea that that mistreatment should be redressed in some way.

Phat writes:

...work to address and redress these issues but dont go out of your way to fine the Caucasian.


It isn't out of our way at all. The Caucasian was responsible for the situation and the descendents of the Caucasian have reaped the benefits of the situation. It seems perfectly appropriate for the Caucasian to pay.

Phat writes:

You will be throwing gasoline on the fire.


But the fire is you. If you can't be part of the solution, at least stop being part of the problem.

Phat writes:

The goal should be to treat everyone equal from today forward.


There's your Trump-thinking again: "I'm ahead, so stop counting."

No. The goal should be to do what's right, even if it means paying past debts.

Phat writes:

You have no right to interfere with my family personally in order to achieve your social justice goals...


Of course we have (society has) that exact right.

Phat writes:

... which please the Jesus of your imagination.


Don't try to pull that crap with me. YOU are the one who has an imaginary Jesus who tells you it's okay to be a selfish right-wing prick.

Phat writes:

I'll not let some liberal feel good committee become my morality police.


You should. You're morality as it stands is pretty sickly. Remember the saying about trees producing fruit.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 90 by Phat, posted 05-16-2021 3:26 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19252
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 97 of 342 (886367)
05-17-2021 9:49 AM
Reply to: Message 95 by Phat
05-17-2021 4:36 AM


Re: I Realize Im Whining But...
Phat writes:

But you don't just send a bill to some households.


They already do. It's April 15th in the US, isn't it?

Phat writes:

There is no way to accurately measure any compensation that is fair across all cultural definitions.


How can you know it's impossible if you reject it out of hand with no discussion?

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 95 by Phat, posted 05-17-2021 4:36 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19252
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 151 of 342 (886923)
06-18-2021 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 148 by Phat
06-17-2021 11:26 AM


Re: Conservative Supreme Court Rules
Phat writes:

Catholic Foster Care Agency May Turn Away Gay Couples.


There are some unfortunate "rights" in your Constitution. The "right" to own slaves used to be there and the right to discriminate based on religious beliefs is still there.

Phat writes:

And I know that the liberals will disagree with this, but I side with the Court on this one.


How can you call yourself a "moderate" when you always side with the right-wing nuts?

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 148 by Phat, posted 06-17-2021 11:26 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 152 by Phat, posted 06-19-2021 12:58 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19252
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 153 of 342 (886941)
06-19-2021 1:00 PM
Reply to: Message 152 by Phat
06-19-2021 12:58 PM


Re: Conservative Supreme Court Rules
Phat writes:

Not all of the right-wing is nuts. No more than all of the left-wing.


And AGAIN, you don't reply to waht you quoted.

Try again. I said, "How can you call yourself a "moderate" when you always side with the right-wing nuts?"


"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 152 by Phat, posted 06-19-2021 12:58 PM Phat has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19252
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


(1)
Message 158 of 342 (886951)
06-20-2021 9:10 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by Phat
06-20-2021 3:53 AM


Re: Prager U also has some good presentations.
Phat writes:

There are more ways to discuss/debate an issue than the popular leftist narrative.


You wouldn't know a "leftist narrative" if it sat down beside you in church. You're getting everything you think you know about the "left" from right-wing nuts like Jordan Peterson.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by Phat, posted 06-20-2021 3:53 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 163 by Phat, posted 06-22-2021 5:58 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19252
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


(3)
Message 168 of 342 (886982)
06-23-2021 12:25 PM
Reply to: Message 163 by Phat
06-22-2021 5:58 PM


Re: Prager U also has some good presentations.
Phat writes:

Jordan has a perfectly rational argument.


He contradicts himself between 01 and 05. How is that rational?

Nobody is talking about any "collective crime". Recognizing that white privilege exists is just that - recognizing a fact. If you recognize that the black guy has had a tougher time of it than you and if you maybe cut him a break once in a while, that's nice too.

And recognizing racism is not racism.

In a 14-line transcript of a 28-second clip you've shown quite well what an idiot Peterson is.

And it isn't even because he's a "conservative nut". He's a wannabe "conservative thinker".


"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by Phat, posted 06-22-2021 5:58 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 169 by Phat, posted 06-24-2021 8:04 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19252
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


(3)
Message 171 of 342 (886985)
06-24-2021 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 169 by Phat
06-24-2021 8:04 AM


Re: Wannabe Conservative Thinkers
Phat writes:

I suppose that our next step is to showcase what a true conservative thinker would think.


As I have said before, conservatism isn't necessarily evil. It depends on what you want to conserve.

If you want to conserve "family values", that's a good thing - as long as you don't consider persecuting homosexuals a family value. If you want to conserve the "good old days" of slavery - or even the good old days when black people "knew their place" - that's a bad thing.

Phat writes:

And while we are at it, let us compare and contrast what a true liberal thinker might say.


I have also said before, conservatives tend to think of the nation as a business - the less-productive members have to fall by the wayside; liberals tend to think of the nation as a family - you feed your children whether you can afford it or not.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 169 by Phat, posted 06-24-2021 8:04 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 172 by Phat, posted 07-01-2021 10:49 AM ringo has responded
 Message 181 by ramoss, posted 07-05-2021 10:42 AM ringo has acknowledged this reply
 Message 203 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-11-2021 5:23 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19252
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 173 of 342 (887029)
07-02-2021 12:29 PM
Reply to: Message 172 by Phat
07-01-2021 10:49 AM


Re: Wannabe Conservative Thinkers
Phat writes:

I want to conserve low prices.


There were never any "low prices" that didn't come with low wages. When I finished high school, the minimum wage was about $1.75 an hour. So what if prices were "lower"? You couldn't buy more.

Phat writes:

I want to conserve the US Lifestyle in the early 70's before inflation took off and made us just like any other country.


There have always been periods of inflation. There's nothing there to conserve.

Phat writes:

...and soon the global reserve status will be lost...


Good.

Phat writes:

We thus need to conserve our powerful military.


How is that a "thus"? What are you going to do with your military? Got out and grab more lebensraum? How will throwing away money on military adventures like Afghanistan reduce inflation?

Phat writes:

...but can it be done while still preserving our quality of life?


As somebody else has been trying to tell you, it is not a zero-sum game. When the bottom of the totem-pole benefits, you will benefit too.

Phat writes:

If not, we have identified the inevitable problem that Americans must confront.


No. You definitely have not.

Phat writes:

Liberals go a step farther. They think of the world as a family.


Yes.

Phat writes:

Which is easy if they are rich like the majority of EvC is.


So why do rich people tend to be conservative?

Phat writes:

It's not easy for the blue-collar uneducated working class, however. They would turn to the military and the Politicians for help preserving their diminishing lifestyle.


Again, how? How is an expensive military going to preserve your lifestyle? Plunder and pillage?

Phat writes:

Why must they get paid less and become the butlers and servents of a rising global middle class that has advantages over them?


You have it backwards. You should be asking yourself why the rest of the world has to perpetually be your hewers of wood and drawers of water.

Phat writes:

Let me think about this one.


Please do. All you've done so far is regurgitate the same old same old.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 172 by Phat, posted 07-01-2021 10:49 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 174 by Phat, posted 07-04-2021 12:01 AM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19252
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 4.1


Message 176 of 342 (887036)
07-04-2021 3:43 PM
Reply to: Message 174 by Phat
07-04-2021 12:01 AM


Re: In Essence You Support A Meritocracy
Phat writes:

You just agreed that we are all family. Think about the hardships you would place on your American family if we were to lose that status.


No, no, no, no, no. We have a member of the family who is grabbing more than his share of privileges. I am NOT going to help him do that. I want him to lose his privileges for the benefit of the underprivileged.

Phat writes:

ringo writes:

What are you going to do with your military?


Keep everybody honest.

But you've never done that with them before. You've used them to throw your weight around, and often made the situation worse instead of better.

Phat writes:

Not letting them dogpile on the US if we end up suffering.
...but can it be done while still preserving our quality of life?


Well, of course not. Your military is one of the biggest threats to your quality of life.

Phat writes:

What you upper-middle-class liberals do....


I'm definitely not "upper-middle-class". I would call YOU lower middle class and I'm below you on the totem pole.

Phat writes:

You support the educated foreigners taking their spot before helping you own countrymen.


Of course. Why should I favor somebody who is less qualified just because we accidentally happened to be born close to each other?

Phat writes:

Only the wealthiest of the wealthy tend to lean that way for obvious reasons.


If the reasons are obvious, why are you denying that the rich tend to be conservative?

Phat writes:

They don't want you and your ilk taxing away all their money to raise the tide.


I really wish you would read what I post instead of making it up in your head. I have said more than once that I am NOT in favor of taxing the rich. I'm in favor of the poor paying for the services they use and to hell with the rich. And we can accomplish that, for a start, by raising the minimum wage so the working poor can afford to pay taxes. That doesn't deprive you of your precious ivory backscratcher.

Phat writes:

ringo writes:

How is an expensive military going to preserve your lifestyle?


Protect me from other rising bullies who want to strip me of my entitlements.

I asked you to think. Why didn't you?

It's the cost of your military that endangers your entitlements. The only "bullies" who threaten your entitlements are the poor who are trying to rise to your level. Are you going to sic the military on them?

Phat writes:

ringo writes:

You should be asking yourself why the rest of the world has to perpetually be your hewers of wood and drawers of water.


in the end, someone has to do it.

That's the same argument that was used to keep the negroes picking cotton. And it was out of date then.

But again, all you're doing is trotting out your selfish complaints. You're not discussing Liberals or Conservatives at all.


"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 174 by Phat, posted 07-04-2021 12:01 AM Phat has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 177 by DrJones*, posted 07-04-2021 8:11 PM ringo has acknowledged this reply

  
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