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Author Topic:   Who's the bigger offender: Conservatives or Liberals?
PaulK
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Posts: 16981
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


(4)
Message 12 of 342 (886139)
05-07-2021 2:00 AM
Reply to: Message 4 by marc9000
05-06-2021 7:33 PM


quote:
And a poster from one side can determine what are intelligent posts from both sides, while a poster from the other side cannot?

I think that we can say that the person who tried to suggest that the restrictions on wood burning stoves was a response to global warming - and that the reason was the heat they give out - is unable to judge the intelligence. Message 633

quote:
You have evidence that conservatives are trying to censor liberal speech? Or conservatives are just saying things that liberals don't like? And the answer is to censor them?

I didn’t say any such thing. I said instead that “conservative” speech was filled with falsehood, hostility and intolerance. Which seems rather likely to produce a negative reaction in those targeted.
And it’s also the sort of speech that is poison to an online community. It’s in the interest of the companies hosting those communities to deal with the troublemakers.

quote:
Big Tech doesn't own the internet. They shut down Parler. Censorship has reached new heights from the Democrat party, and all the branches it owns.

Parler wasn’t forbidden from using the internet. Parler was forbidden from using computers owned by Amazon - for repeated violations of the Terms of Use. Again, you have no right to use other people’s property without their agreement. That is not censorship. Nor is Amazon an arm of the Democratic Party.

quote:
So was Maxine Waters. Double standards, but that's where liberalism is.

Then perhaps you can show me evidence of this coup attempt and that Maxine Waters spread disinformation that lead to it.

quote:
Someone was going to be injured, or die from what she posted? Or is there an increasing fear of what conservatives have to say?

COVID is a rather nasty illness that has killed a lot of people. Faith was promoting the use of hydroxychloroquine to treat it. A dangerous drug that doesn’t even work.

If it was fear of what she was saying, why wasn’t she banned much earlier? It makes no sense.

quote:
That's true, the question is, what is the owner afraid of?

Obviously people suffering ill effects - or even death - due to use or misuse of hydroxychloroquine.

quote:
The earth has to be billions of years old if we have to jam-pack all of reality into one time dimension.

That doesn’t even make sense. But even if it did, assuming multiple time dimensions isn’t even theistic. So not assuming them can hardly be atheistic (and in fact assuming them without solid scientific evidence would be unscientific).

So we have established that I was correct. Creationists try to put their religion in science classes because they object to the science.

Of course, even if a teacher was actually teaching that there was no God reacting to it by trying to take over parts of the science curriculum is in no way a sensible answer. Nor even a proportionate one. So that’s a good example of conservatives being worse than liberals.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 4 by marc9000, posted 05-06-2021 7:33 PM marc9000 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 26 by marc9000, posted 05-09-2021 4:25 PM PaulK has responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 16981
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 23 of 342 (886175)
05-09-2021 3:58 PM
Reply to: Message 22 by marc9000
05-09-2021 3:34 PM


Re: free speech
quote:
Almost as hilarious as Democrats shrieking "Trump - Russia collusion!!!!", even though it was shown to be a lie / conspiracy theory after the multi- million dollar Mueller investigation...

No, it wasn’t shown to be either a lie or a conspiracy theory. Manafort did have improper contact with the Russians. The Trump Tower meeting happened. The Russians were behind the DNC hack and the release of the documents. It turned out that Mueller didn’t find that things had gone far enough for charges, but there was enough to justify investigation.

quote:
... and now they're calling the Trump claims of a stolen election a lie and conspiracy theory, even though any investigation of that has been a small fraction of the Mueller investigation.

Because there are no reasonable grounds for suspicion, and because the recounts and audits didn’t find any serious problems. When the supposed evidence has been looked at, it hasn’t needed any more investigation. We don’t need to seriously consider a report that compares voting figures from one State with population figures from another, or pay much attention to an “expert” report from a “Military Intelligence Analysts” who flunked the basic training for that position.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 22 by marc9000, posted 05-09-2021 3:34 PM marc9000 has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 25 by marc9000, posted 05-09-2021 4:07 PM PaulK has responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 16981
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 27 of 342 (886179)
05-09-2021 4:27 PM
Reply to: Message 25 by marc9000
05-09-2021 4:07 PM


Re: free speech
quote:
Didn't go far enough for charges, but it was still the truth?

It was.

quote:
But the recounts and audits didn't go on for 2 years, or cost millions of dollars. Ballot harvesting, mail in voting, and all the other fraud was barely investigated at all.

Mail in voting certainly was checked in the audits. And again, where is the evidence that would justify an investigation? Should we start with the Republican Party in California with their fake boxes for collecting ballots?

quote:
No investigation on why the mainstream media completely covered up the Joe Biden / Hunter Biden corruption with Ukraine during the Obama administration, only weeks before the election.

You mean that the incredibly suspect story about the laptop? Where the hard drive just happened to get sent to Rudy Giuliani - who sat on it for months?

quote:
Polls showed that enough voters would have changed their vote from Biden to Trump had they known about it, to change the results.

I’d like to see the question that was asked for that poll. But certainly the story got out - we all heard about it. But it was an obvious dirty trick.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 25 by marc9000, posted 05-09-2021 4:07 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 16981
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 28 of 342 (886181)
05-09-2021 4:44 PM
Reply to: Message 26 by marc9000
05-09-2021 4:25 PM


quote:
It's all about government control of personal liberty, the different divisions of government excuses to do it is fairly irrelevant.

That doesn’t change the fact that you have no idea what you were talking about. You can’t discuss the restrictions sensibly without understanding the reasons for them.

quote:
I was much more concerned with intelligence, concerning the message that claimed that most all products used by humans today can easily be made without fossil fuels. And the very telling reaction it got when I pointed out how wrong that was. I'll go over to that thread here shortly.

The more interesting question there is what is the impact on climate from those uses. Using oil as a raw material for producing plastics or artificial fibres is not obviously going to have the same effects as burning it.

quote:
You haven't seen the antifa and BLM riots, both before and after her incentivizing it, and calling it all okay?

So, no actual coup attempt. And since that was a very I prtant part of Trump’s ban, the equivalence isn’t there. Trump got a lot of tolerance, too.

quote:
Because, as I've been saying, conservative speech is becoming tolerated LESS, as a fear of it grows.

And yet Percy still had valid reasons for the ban that are not directed at conservatism. Or even “conservatism” (that is pretty intolerant of conservative speech as Liz Cheney is finding out).

quote:
It makes perfect sense, humans can't comprehend anything outside of one time dimension, three space dimensions, and re-arrangement of material. Logic actually tells us there is more to reality.

No, it didn’t make sense. And just saying that there must be more doesn’t give any reason to believe that the Earth isn’t billions of years old. Let alone that accepting that age is atheistic which is the real issue. Hinduism teaches that the Earth is even older. Does that make Hindus atheists? It’s absurd.

quote:
?? That doesn't make sense.

Sure it does.

The only way atheism could be taught in schools is a teacher teaching that there was no God.

Creationists did try to inject their religious beliefs into science classes.

You say that it is because atheism was being taught. See above.

If an individual is breaking the law the correct response is to use the legal system to stop them. Not to use political means to get government support for a larger and more widely spread violation of the law.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 26 by marc9000, posted 05-09-2021 4:25 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 36 by dwise1, posted 05-09-2021 8:55 PM PaulK has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 16981
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


(5)
Message 42 of 342 (886203)
05-10-2021 2:55 AM


Since Marc has reminded me.
In Message 667 he claimed that the 10th Amendment governed science. This is an outright falsehood. (The 10th Amendment is about the division of power between the Federal Government and the States).

It seems that he can’t tell the difference between the Federalist Letters which he cited in the earlier Message 659 and the Constitution. But while very useful for interpreting the Constitution the Federalist letters do not in themselves have any legal force.

It gets worse. His quote of Federalist Papers 10 was a misrepresentation. Climate scientists are not acting as a “faction” in the way Federalist Papers 10 sees as a problem. Nor is finding out facts Marc wants suppressed “mischief” in the sense intended. Worse still, Federalist Papers 10 did not advocate government control of “factions” as a solution.

The fact is that Marc wants political control of the findings of science. Which is totalitarian to the core. He claims constitutional authority but never offers any Article or Amendment that would support his claim. Only a misrepresentation of a document which is not a part of the Constitution - or any lesser part of the law.


  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 16981
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 75 of 342 (886310)
05-15-2021 10:33 AM
Reply to: Message 53 by marc9000
05-11-2021 9:01 PM


quote:
I'll be back this weekend.

Don’t forget Is science atheism?, started to respond to some of your other assertions.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 53 by marc9000, posted 05-11-2021 9:01 PM marc9000 has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 16981
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 159 of 342 (886952)
06-20-2021 9:15 AM
Reply to: Message 156 by Phat
06-20-2021 3:53 AM


Re: Prager U also has some good presentations.
I doubt very much that either qualifies as “good”. Prager U is a (very) right-wing propaganda outfit.

But thanks for providing the proof that you are not a moderate.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 156 by Phat, posted 06-20-2021 3:53 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 16981
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


(2)
Message 167 of 342 (886980)
06-23-2021 12:51 AM
Reply to: Message 163 by Phat
06-22-2021 5:58 PM


Re: Prager U also has some good presentations.
So he admits that white privileged exists, but then insists that admitting it is somehow accusing all white people of “a collective crime”. It isn’t. It’s simply recognising the fact that due to current and past racism, being white is an advantage. And to call that ‘racist” is an obvious reversal of the truth.

A smear is not a rational argument.

quote:
I totally agree. The only counter-argument that most of you have is..."Well what do you expect? He is a conservative nut

If you agree than I hope that you can support his assertions - you certainly don’t quote anything that does. Or are his claims as false as your assertion that we have no answer?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 163 by Phat, posted 06-22-2021 5:58 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 16981
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 228 of 342 (887160)
07-16-2021 5:24 AM
Reply to: Message 224 by Phat
07-15-2021 1:27 AM


Re: In Essence You Support A Meritocracy
quote:
I lean a bit to the right because they advocate freedom more than humanism.

No, they don’t. When the Right talks about freedom it’s only to get what they want. Freedom goes out the window whenever it gets in their way.

quote:
Granted it can be a refuge for the greedy and the selfish…

That pretty much defines the leadership of the US Right. The amount of grifting is colossal.

quote:
…. but I would assert that the Left Wing is a refuge for humanists who don't believe in a power higher than themselves.

I’m sure the many Christians in the Left would disagree.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 224 by Phat, posted 07-15-2021 1:27 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 16981
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 232 of 342 (887169)
07-19-2021 9:52 AM
Reply to: Message 231 by Percy
07-19-2021 9:26 AM


Re: Wannabe Conservative Thinkers
Currency valuation is a double-edged sword. China was attacked for keeping it’s currency artificially low.

A strong currency brings cheap imports but makes locally produced goods less competitive - which hurts exports and jobs.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 231 by Percy, posted 07-19-2021 9:26 AM Percy has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 233 by LamarkNewAge, posted 07-26-2021 12:17 AM PaulK has responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 16981
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 234 of 342 (887217)
07-26-2021 12:29 AM
Reply to: Message 233 by LamarkNewAge
07-26-2021 12:17 AM


Re: Wannabe Conservative Thinkers
That China was attacked for keeping it’s currency artificially low is a fact. Whether the attacks were true is another matter.

The important issue is that a weak currency was seen as an economic advantage.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 233 by LamarkNewAge, posted 07-26-2021 12:17 AM LamarkNewAge has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 235 by LamarkNewAge, posted 07-26-2021 1:39 AM PaulK has responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 16981
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 236 of 342 (887219)
07-26-2021 2:01 AM
Reply to: Message 235 by LamarkNewAge
07-26-2021 1:39 AM


Re: Wannabe Conservative Thinkers
quote:
I don't think China wants a weak currency. I just found out that the 6 months, since the February 21 WSJ article, have seen the Chinese Yuan gain 10% in appreciation against the Dollar.

All of which is irrelevant to my point (including the parts not quoted),


This message is a reply to:
 Message 235 by LamarkNewAge, posted 07-26-2021 1:39 AM LamarkNewAge has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 237 by Phat, posted 07-26-2021 4:01 AM PaulK has responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 16981
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 239 of 342 (887228)
07-26-2021 8:27 AM
Reply to: Message 237 by Phat
07-26-2021 4:01 AM


Re: Wannabe Conservative Thinkers
That’s completely missing the point. The point is that currency valuations are not so simple as high = good. There are pluses and minuses.

This message is a reply to:
 Message 237 by Phat, posted 07-26-2021 4:01 AM Phat has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 16981
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 293 of 342 (887605)
08-13-2021 2:07 PM
Reply to: Message 292 by jar
08-13-2021 1:46 PM


Re: Phat, read the Bible at least once. You might even learn something.
Don’t mention the Jubilee. Or what the Bible says about usury. It might make Phat’s head explode!

This message is a reply to:
 Message 292 by jar, posted 08-13-2021 1:46 PM jar has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 294 by jar, posted 08-13-2021 6:11 PM PaulK has not yet responded

  
PaulK
Member
Posts: 16981
Joined: 01-10-2003
Member Rating: 2.5


(3)
Message 298 of 342 (887616)
08-14-2021 4:54 PM
Reply to: Message 296 by Phat
08-14-2021 4:13 PM


Re: You might even learn something.
quote:
This encapsulates the whole Source versus Content argument that jar and ringo keep trying to get me to accept. Atheists and secular humanists by and large believe that there is no source apart from humanity itself and that anything we write, adopt, and follow comes from within us. I disagree with this conclusion.

I don’t think that is at all true. To me the main point is that you think that God is an idiot who says nothing worth listening to.
Jar and Ringo are just trying to get you to listen to the message.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 296 by Phat, posted 08-14-2021 4:13 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
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