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Author Topic:   Who's the bigger offender: Conservatives or Liberals?
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 355 of 773 (889481)
11-29-2021 11:51 AM
Reply to: Message 353 by ringo
11-29-2021 10:48 AM


s against us.Re: Darker Future For USA
Jesus was indeed a bleeding heart. His was of the noble variety. This is unlike the modern definitions of bleeding heart
quote:
Fig. someone, usually considered politically liberal or leftist, who is very emotional about certain political issues, such as endangered species, downtrodden people, the suffering poor, etc. Bob is such a bleeding heart. No cause is too far out for him.(...)a person considered to be dangerously soft-hearted, typically someone too liberal or left-wing in their political beliefs. (...)A person who shows an overwhelming and often ostentatious display of sympathy, especially for those perceived as victims.
What you guys fail to understand is that many of these so-named victims would never know what to do with a stimulus check or a reparations tax break if it were handed to them. The reeducation must happen first. The reparations and lavish tax breaks will only be effective after that. Same with jars' observation that had the US helped the world (they)would have been better off. Never mind that many of "them" use our own weapons against us.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 353 by ringo, posted 11-29-2021 10:48 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 356 by ringo, posted 11-29-2021 12:06 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 358 by jar, posted 11-29-2021 3:15 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 360 by marc9000, posted 11-30-2021 8:29 AM Phat has replied
 Message 361 by Percy, posted 11-30-2021 8:46 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 362 of 773 (889496)
11-30-2021 12:47 PM
Reply to: Message 360 by marc9000
11-30-2021 8:29 AM


Mandatory Empathy and Government Control
marc9000 writes:
One quick question Phat, has your opinion of Trump gone up at all in the past 6 months or so?
Being a businessman, Trump did nothing except delay the inevitable. I never agreed with his personality or his diplomacy, but I did realize the divide in American politics that I never knew was so pervasive. I had always liked Obama...not due to his politics or business acumen, but due to his amicable nature and expert use of words and empathy--a trait which Trump lacked. I have always labeled myself as a political moderate though many here shove me firmly into the conservative camp. One thing I do know for sure despite their insistance that I do not. The world is sliding towards cultural marxism and it will end up being the death (the last and final days) of this planet. The critics at EvC (despites some of them claiming to be true Christians) know nothing about the existence and reality of God nor do they understand that when you pump 11 trillion dollars into the US dollar it will inflate and decrease in overall purchasing power---effectively killing the US middle class. I have finally concluded that they do not care. They claim to have a heart for the welfare of the entire world and would rather see the privileged class that our early days of expansionism and freedom produced diminish. Trump befriended that class(as well as the 1% like himself, unfortunately) and postponed its inevitable demise. Ultimately, money itself will be taken from the people and made a part of a globalist system. We won't be able to take ourselves out of the banking system nearly as easily without tax consequences.
To the progressive liberals, it is as it should be. They claim that Christians are mostly far-right and mostly selfish.(We are not--we are individualistic rather than collectivists and mandatory do-gooders under the hand of a "benevolent" government.) Of course, none of them believe in original sin nor in a spiritual war. They challenge me to provide evidence and they point to the fact that it is I who am the monster and unloving towards the poor disenfranchised masses. I will admit that I am not in favor of mandatory altruism nor of government control and regulation of MY assets which I earn. In that way, I have something in common with you, marc9000. But now it is my turn. Let me ask you a question. Where do YOU stand spiritually? Beyond the context of right-wing politics, are you a believer in Jesus Christ and His eventual return? Do you see the sin in yourself as I see in myself? Do you see that the progressives substitute mandatory empathy and aid to the poor for a decision which should be individually and freely made?
Edited by Phat, : sub title

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 360 by marc9000, posted 11-30-2021 8:29 AM marc9000 has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 363 by nwr, posted 11-30-2021 2:19 PM Phat has replied
 Message 364 by marc9000, posted 11-30-2021 9:10 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 365 by Percy, posted 12-01-2021 11:30 AM Phat has replied
 Message 374 by ringo, posted 12-02-2021 11:00 AM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 366 of 773 (889502)
12-01-2021 3:30 PM
Reply to: Message 365 by Percy
12-01-2021 11:30 AM


Re: Mandatory Empathy and Government Control
Disclaimer: Though I was on a great Lo-Carb Diet for close to all of November, I relapsed and had some bad carbs with high sugar the past 2 days before I wrote this stuff. (perhaps the sugar does make me irrational) but I am back on the horse as of today(December 1st) and hope to have good numbers by the end of the month when I see both Doctors.
Anyway, allow me to explain my irrational paranoia, apart from high sugar.
1)Jar claims that the US *should* have helped rebuild Viet Nam and other places. Does he not realize that by lifting up the trading partners there would be direct competition for the American worker? And the sad fact is, we cannot compete. Their work ethic and willingness to work harder for less would have beaten our own native populists and uneducated workers domestically. It is not mainly the altruism that I am opposed to. It is the lack of similar concern for our own first.
You're opposed to the government doing good? Do you really favor a government that does no good? No public transportation? No highways? No public education? No farm bureau? No FDA to mandate iodine in our salt and vitamin D in our milk? No public health to make sure children are vaccinated and to handle epidemics and pandemics? The list of the good that government does is endless. That's one of the important reasons government exists, to provide for the public good.
Of course I'm not opposed to the FDA, the CDP, and other agencies that regulate public health and safety. I'm opposed to mandatory control and implementation of taxes beyond domestic needs. Jar himself mentions that *we* should have helped Viet Nam...and no doubt Iraq and Afghanistan, though the governments in place there are still hostile to American foreign policy. China is taking over. Does anyone want the CCP running the planet? (The anti-Christian CCP, I might add)
Wiki writes:
Collectivism is a value that is characterized by an emphasis on cohesiveness among individuals and prioritization of the group over the self. Individuals or groups that subscribe to a collectivist worldview tend to find common values and goals as particularly salient[1] and demonstrate greater orientation toward in-group than toward out-group.[2] The term "in-group" is thought to be more diffusely defined for collectivist individuals to include societal units ranging from the nuclear family to a religious or racial/ethnic group.
One example of collectivism in action is selectively only giving stimulus checks to "each according to their need." This is a blatant example of in-group thinking and mandatory under a government of, by, and for the in-group.
The only part of collectivism that I favor is the collective bargaining of a labor union. As our wages go up in line with inflation, we will be accused of causing inflation by insisting on parity rather than biting the bullet and accepting less. Which is another reason I abhor anarchy. They steal theirs.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 365 by Percy, posted 12-01-2021 11:30 AM Percy has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 368 by nwr, posted 12-01-2021 6:33 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 369 by Percy, posted 12-01-2021 9:27 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 376 by ringo, posted 12-02-2021 11:23 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 389 by Percy, posted 12-02-2021 7:08 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 372 of 773 (889508)
12-02-2021 10:30 AM
Reply to: Message 363 by nwr
11-30-2021 2:19 PM


Re: Mandatory Empathy and Government Control
nwr writes:
Given that Marx was opposed to capitalism, and thought things should be for the people at large, one might guess that cultural Marxism is just saying that culture should come from the people. But culture has always come from the people. Even the suggestion of a marketplace of ideas, such as we often hear from conservatives, effectively puts culture in the hands of the people.
The question is "which people"? ALL of them? (Globalism writ LARGE)
nwr writes:
Since you are so concerned about cultural Marxism, maybe you can explain what it is. I have tried a google lookup. But, as best I can tell, there's no such thing.
I am NOT referring to the conspiracy theory. Note that a conspiracy by definition is:
Websters writes:
Essential Meaning of conspiracy
1 : a secret plan made by two or more people to do something that is harmful or illegal The CIA uncovered a conspiracy against the government.
2 : the act of secretly planning to do something that is harmful or illegal They were accused of conspiracy to commit murder.
Full Definition of conspiracy
1 : the act of conspiring together They were accused of conspiracy to commit murder.
2a : an agreement among conspirators uncovered a conspiracy against the government
b : a group of conspirators a conspiracy made up of disgruntled aristocrats
Now...if by aristocrats we mean the people who have benefitted to any degree from hundreds of years of American expansionism, one could hypothetically throw the populists in as a group of so-called aristocrats.
My parents were far from aristocratic, however. They simply were benefactors of the aberration which jar has spoken of...the ramped up industrial capacity of the United States for twenty years or so after WWII.
nwr writes:
And yet you belong to the evangelical Christian collective and you regularly vote for the Republican collective.
Not true. I voted for Biden over Trump in the last election, though I now regret it. The Democrats in power appear set to spend more money than Trump ever did. Critics will say that this money is primarily earmarked to help the US, but statements such as the ones jar has made disturb me.
jar writes:
We should have accepted the democratically determined will of the people of Iran, Iraq, Vietnam, Thailand, Cambodia, China, Colombia, Cuba, Dominican Republic, ... the list goes on and on; and allowed those nations to determine their own forms of Government instead of stepping in and trying to force OUR desired government on them. We should have given them aid instead of guns.
FULL STOP. Do you mean to suggest that our tax dollars should have gone overseas? Though I suppose that they already do indirectly through the BEAST that is the military-industrial complex! This world is SCREWED UP! It all seems like a no-win situation. Note the comments by a left-leaning Christian by the name of John Pavlovitz:
John Pavolvitz writes:
A reader from Australia texted me last night. He’d been watching the news and said he wanted to check on me.
We’re heartbroken to hear what’s going on there. he wrote. Is it really as bad as it looks?
Another sweet friend from England messaged me this morning, with similar concern for me and for our nation based on what she’s been reading and seeing in the media.
Over the past few months I’ve had many kind-hearted people from all over the world make similar inquiries about America, asking if it is as dire and alarming up close as it appears from a distance.
Yes, it is.
In fact, it’s far worse here on the ground, because all the ugliness you can see from thousands of miles away (outside of a few politician’s faces) is probably still rather abstract—a largely undefinable, faceless wave of malice and bigotry, something to be analyzed and studied later.
But here on the ground, this malignant sickness has a face, one that is far too familiar:
It’s the face of family members whose newly revealed racism is regularly leveling us around the dinner table.
It’s the face of former church friends, who have completely abandoned the Jesus they claim faith in and chosen the vilest of idols.
It’s the face of once pleasant neighbors who casually regurgitate extremist propaganda in sidewalk conversations.
It’s the face of childhood friends spewing anti-immigrant filth on their social media profiles.
It’s the face of store owners and hairstylists and restaurant workers, the interactions with whom, have become walks through minefields.
So yes, it’s the staggering cruelty of those holding the power here—but just as much it’s the people we know and live alongside who are so gladly empowering them.
Yes, it’s the complete bastardization of the rule of law and the systems of protections our forebears put in place to avoid putting our nation in such peril—but it’s our coworkers and uncles and classmates who don’t seem to give a damn about that.
Yes, it’s one political party’s sociopathic lack of empathy and their unrepentant viciousness—but it’s the people we’ve shared Thanksgiving dinner with and served on mission trips alongside, who share their venom and boost their signal.
Yes, it’s Republican politicians’ incessant attacks on LGBTQ people and immigrants and Muslims and the sick and the vulnerable—but it’s the once kind-hearted people we love, who have been so poisoned by partisan talking points and perverted Christian theology that they celebrate all of it.
That’s why this is all so bad.
We’re certainly losing the big things here: the integrity of our elections, the stability of our Republic, the faith in our systems, the illusion that our Republican leaders will put anything over power and party.
But we’re losing much more than that.
We’re losing the soft places we called home: our families and our churches and our circle of friends.
We are swiftly and almost hourly seeing the relational fractures that may have always been there beneath the surface, but are now visible and cavernous.
We’re trying to decide whether to fight for relationships we’ve spent our lives nurturing, or whether we need to sever those connections in the name of self-preservation.
These things will never make the news or make a global impact—but they are rocking our personal worlds to the bedrock.
So we’re marching and protesting and working and resisting in the face of this monumental and historically malevolent national political cancer—and while we’re doing that, we’re also trying to preserve our families and our friendships and our workplaces, which are also hanging by a thread.
This is a Constitutional crisis and it’s a family emergency.
We’re wondering what happened to our nation—and to people we once loved and respected; to our parents, grandparents, siblings, neighbors, and best friends.
Yes, our Democracy is in peril, but our most treasured relationships with people are in tatters too.
We are trying to salvage both and it’s exhausting.
So yes, friends around the world, thank you for caring about us in America.
It is as bad as it looks from where you’re standing.
But it’s far worse, too.
The Bible spoke of such times.
Luke 14:25-27NIV writes:
Large crowds were traveling with Jesus, and turning to them he said: 26 "If anyone comes to me and does not hate his father and mother, his wife and children, his brothers and sisters-yes, even his own life-he cannot be my disciple. 27 And anyone who does not carry his cross and follow me cannot be my disciple.
Thus it is a topsy turvy world! The Democrats who outwardly deny Jesus as a reality and whom I referred to as "bleeding hearts" are in fact closer to what Jesus expects than are the ones who claim to know and follow basic Biblical precepts.
Phat, referring to liberals writes:
Of course, none of them believe in original sin nor in a spiritual war.
Percy writes:
Oh my God, I think I've got whiplash! Didn't see that coming. Of what possible relevance is this to anything you said before?
Because by and large, many liberals have dismissed the necessity (nevermind possibility) of surrendering to God as we understand Him and following His mandates and substituted allegiance to a progressive government and allowing "it" to set the mandates. Conservatives with a strong faith and a moral conscience are few and far between, but they get it. Without Jesus Christ, humans will never successfully create a workable consensus and a brave new world. The antitheists violently disagree. The makings of a spiritual war are all too evident.
Edited by Phat, : spelling

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 363 by nwr, posted 11-30-2021 2:19 PM nwr has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 373 by jar, posted 12-02-2021 10:51 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 375 by PaulK, posted 12-02-2021 11:14 AM Phat has not replied
 Message 377 by ringo, posted 12-02-2021 11:27 AM Phat has replied
 Message 382 by nwr, posted 12-02-2021 12:37 PM Phat has replied
 Message 400 by Percy, posted 12-03-2021 10:57 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 378 of 773 (889515)
12-02-2021 11:41 AM
Reply to: Message 374 by ringo
12-02-2021 11:00 AM


Re: Mandatory Empathy and Government Control
ringo writes:
All governments collect taxes. Roads, schools, etc....
Its the etceera that needs to be discussed.
I am FOR using taxes on Social Security. Medicare and Medicaid. Technology and research. I am in favor of helping our citizens first--before helping other countries. I am in favor of spreading the wealth equally among the people rather than helping Blacks, Indians, and other marginalized groups. They will simply waste the money.
I am NOT in favor of overseas investments. The US today hardly has the resources that the US of the Marshall Plan era had. We also have far too much debt.
I am in favor of smart military spending to keep us equipped with the latest effective technological advantages...in the event of a war. I am not in favor of feeding a military-industrial complex. This only helps the rich.
And I am NOT in favor of the US Middle Class helping to rebuild countries who are against our beliefs. What good does that do?

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 374 by ringo, posted 12-02-2021 11:00 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 380 by ringo, posted 12-02-2021 12:19 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 383 by AZPaul3, posted 12-02-2021 1:42 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
 Message 392 by Percy, posted 12-02-2021 8:18 PM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 379 of 773 (889516)
12-02-2021 11:44 AM
Reply to: Message 377 by ringo
12-02-2021 11:27 AM


Re: Mandatory Empathy and Government Control
ringo writes:
Is there nothing Jesus said that you won't spit on?
Well...you seem to think that we are ALL charged to give everything away. And yet you exempt yourself. You side with a mandatory government mandate yet choose to ignore the stuff you quote from scripture to me. You do not understand nor believe in original sin or the fact that humans without Jesus will welcome the antichrist. Satan made the platform sound altruistic and attractive after all.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 377 by ringo, posted 12-02-2021 11:27 AM ringo has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 381 by ringo, posted 12-02-2021 12:24 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 384 of 773 (889521)
12-02-2021 5:53 PM
Reply to: Message 382 by nwr
12-02-2021 12:37 PM


Re: Mandatory Empathy and Government Control
nwr writes:
Okay, so you have told us something that cultural Marxism isn't. But you still have not said what it is. You just respond in an evasive manner.
I'm not being intentionally evasive. Im just off on other rabbit trails.
nwr writes:
It is pretty obvious that you don't know what cultural Marxism is (or that it isn't actually anything at all).
It is a policy or policies which go against traditional Christian values. What is cultural Marxism?
quote:
In short, cultural Marxism is a revolutionary leftist idea that traditional culture is the source of oppression in the modern world. Cultural Marxism is often linked to an insistence upon political correctness, multiculturalism, and perpetual attacks on the foundations of culture: the nuclear family, marriage, patriotism, traditional morality, law and order, etc. Cultural Marxists are assumed to be committed to establishing economic Marxism, in which case their cultural attacks are a necessary preparation for their ultimate goal. (...)The result of these ideas was the Frankfurt School, a generic term for Marxist philosophy focused on social criticism and bottom-up change. In particular, the Frankfurt School rejected the idea of absolute truth and promoted aggressive criticism of all aspects of life and society. (...) In actual practice, cultural Marxism is often used as a derogatory term for various left-leaning, progressive, or liberal practices. Unfortunately, various conspiracy theorists and anti-Semitic groups also use the term cultural Marxism to promote their belief in the Illuminati or to blame the Jews for society’s ills. Such misuses of the term do not negate the existence of an intellectual movement to destabilize society from within. (...)For instance, derogatory attitudes toward men, whites, Christians, fathers, heterosexuals, and so forth are often celebrated or encouraged. Equally critical comments directed at women, minorities, Muslims, mothers, homosexuals, and so forth are readily condemned as “hateful.” Whether or not cultural Marxism is behind this imbalance, many people do seem purposefully prejudiced against certain points of view.
For Christians, dealing with cultural Marxism involves a spiritual dimension. It is undeniable that, in the West, Christian values are under attack. However, the root cause of these attacks is not wholly political or racial or social. It is spiritual.

What's not true? That you regret voting for Biden only confirms that you regularly vote Republican.
For the record, I voted twice for Obama. Before that I voted for Reagan and Bush(both of them) In retrospect, Bill Clinton was a better fiscal president than the Republicans in general.
In any case, my point was that you criticize collectivism, but you obviously do not understand what it is.
According to the subtitle, you are worried about government control. Yet you are fully under the control of the right-wing propaganda network. They tell you to fear "cultural Marxism", so you fear it without even bothering to find out what it is. They tell you to fear collectivism, so you fear it without understanding what it is. You are a captive of the propagandists, because you don't think for yourself. If they tell you to jump, you jump. If they tell you to be afraid, you are afraid.
Even if the government tried to control you, they could not do it nearly as effectively as the right-wing propaganda controls you.
I DO know that much of this so-called propaganda that I digest has some truth to it. And I am smart enough to differentiate between truth and lies.
AZ writes:
Where does this come from? How can one human be so callous to think helping other humans in need is a waste of money?
Perhaps I need to elaborate. What I mean is that aid to the people should not target only certain groups. Aid should be for ALL of us. One example of a failed liberal attempt at reparations from the past was Affirmative Action. (A form of reverse discrimination) I don't want to see the same mistake repeated by giving stimulus and aid ONLY to minorities. I am not callous...just in favor of equality. Particularly since only SOME of us pay any real taxes. We should benefit from our collective largesse and not have a government mandate where the stimulus should go.
Edited by Phat, : No reason given.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 382 by nwr, posted 12-02-2021 12:37 PM nwr has seen this message but not replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 385 by jar, posted 12-02-2021 6:10 PM Phat has replied
 Message 399 by ringo, posted 12-03-2021 10:54 AM Phat has not replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 386 of 773 (889523)
12-02-2021 6:31 PM
Reply to: Message 385 by jar
12-02-2021 6:10 PM


Re: Mandatory Empathy and Government Control
Affirmative Action, though overall a success, punished qualified employees in order to meet quotas for hiring minorities. This was a form of reverse discrimination.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 385 by jar, posted 12-02-2021 6:10 PM jar has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 387 by jar, posted 12-02-2021 6:38 PM Phat has not replied
 Message 388 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-02-2021 6:49 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 390 of 773 (889527)
12-02-2021 7:49 PM
Reply to: Message 388 by Tanypteryx
12-02-2021 6:49 PM


Re: Mandatory Empathy and Government Control
Thats a recent one.
Perhaps a more famous one is this:

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 388 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-02-2021 6:49 PM Tanypteryx has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 391 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-02-2021 8:07 PM Phat has replied
 Message 393 by Percy, posted 12-02-2021 8:50 PM Phat has replied

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 18388
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003


Message 395 of 773 (889534)
12-03-2021 10:42 AM
Reply to: Message 321 by Percy
08-21-2021 12:17 PM


Re: Darker Future For USA
I know that you will jump on me for posting this video, but I think that Fox News is spot-on in its assessment of the looting situation in San Francisco. California made several mistakes.
  • They reduced shoplifting (under $900.00) to a misdemeanor rather than a felony as it should be.
  • they have allowed criminals to be looked upon as victims rather than being held responsible for lawless and blatant actions.
    Of course, a lot of you will say that Fox News portrays the ideological battle between conservatives and liberals in a clearly biased fashion.
    Ringo will bray on about helping the "least of these" as if people committing criminal acts are simply victims of a racist society. The policeman from NYC is spot on in his assessment. California may be "woke" but they soon will be broke. And yes, I know that money is not the issue...blah blah blah. To be honest, I know that I am coming across as a heartless a*hole, but my concerns regarding lawlessness and crime are not racist rants. They are based on common sense values which this country now tiptoes around for fear of offending anybody.
    For the record, I am not suggesting that bringing back Trump is in any way a solution. What I am saying is that we the people are heading towards a lawless atheistic society, and that what you see as the solutions are nothing more than gasoline being thrown on a fire.
    Reparations do not mean that people should look the other way when a crime is clearly being committed.

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 321 by Percy, posted 08-21-2021 12:17 PM Percy has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 398 by jar, posted 12-03-2021 10:52 AM Phat has replied
     Message 402 by ringo, posted 12-03-2021 11:08 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
     Message 409 by Percy, posted 12-03-2021 4:01 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18388
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 397 of 773 (889536)
    12-03-2021 10:50 AM
    Reply to: Message 393 by Percy
    12-02-2021 8:50 PM


    I watched Scrooge Last Night
    I rented the movie Scrooge with Albert Finney last night. It was a delight. I shed a tear or two and I saw some of myself in that old heartless miser.
    I feel like he did sometimes. I feel no sympathy for criminals, yet I fail to see the beam in my own eye as I comment about the splinters in many of them.

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 393 by Percy, posted 12-02-2021 8:50 PM Percy has seen this message but not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18388
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 401 of 773 (889540)
    12-03-2021 11:01 AM
    Reply to: Message 398 by jar
    12-03-2021 10:52 AM


    Re: Darker Future For USA
    jar writes:
    Are the people that committed the mass smash & grabs being sought by the police?
    Yes, thanks to modern technology some have been caught. I wish technology could catch all of them.
    Have any of them been caught, tried, and found innocent because they were victims?
    Not to my knowledge. Quit calling me an idiot just because I lean conservative at times. You and others will find out soon enough that the progressives never will run everything and that there are two sides to every story. Quit burying your heads in the sands of ideology and imagining that the world would be a better place if you got rid of the other side. I certainly realize that we need both conservatives and liberals. Maybe you need to learn the same reality.

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 398 by jar, posted 12-03-2021 10:52 AM jar has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 403 by ringo, posted 12-03-2021 11:15 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
     Message 404 by jar, posted 12-03-2021 11:43 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied
     Message 405 by nwr, posted 12-03-2021 12:29 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
     Message 406 by xongsmith, posted 12-03-2021 2:52 PM Phat has replied
     Message 412 by Percy, posted 12-03-2021 5:25 PM Phat has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18388
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 408 of 773 (889547)
    12-03-2021 3:38 PM
    Reply to: Message 391 by Tanypteryx
    12-02-2021 8:07 PM


    Re: Mandatory Empathy and Government Control
    Tanypteryx writes:
    So you have two, compared to countless thousands of qualified blacks who didn't (get) a hearing.
    I'm not sure which video it was in, but the employer even admitted that they use two pools for qualified applicants. In one a 2.5 or better GPA is required. The other pool has no GPA requirement. I'm sure this is the main complaint of rejected applicants...that they were considered only after the smaller pool was considered. I suppose that this is the only way for the playing field to be leveled but I must say I am glad to be working at a job where seniority exists. Seniority is colorblind. It ensures that as (an) employee ages and cannot lift as much or work as hard as a younger man or woman that they do not become disqualified. But to be honest, I'm tired of this topic and a bit confused as to why I rant. My opponents here at EvC have made some good points and have called my spiritual "qualifications" into question. I have no defense.
    Tanypteryx writes:
    Yeah, those Dems, they're the ones against abortion choice and against equal rights for lgbt people, poor people, black people, and brown people. Gun control, you got us there.
    It saddens me that politics becomes the standard and that America has become so polarized and divided. Yes, I watch Fox News. I also watch CNN, NBC, and even BBC and Al Jazeera at times. I believe in listening to differing views in order to get the pulse of ALL people, though I will admit to being biased and scared. I do NOT label myself as a white supremacist, though I am fearful that aging old white guys who self-identify as Christian are being labeled as agitators.
    Tanypteryx writes:
    Good grief!!!!!!!! I am saying the government has to stop discriminating against non-whites.
    There is equal rights, which I favor and there are special rights and reparative ideas which I oppose. I feel as if I am not being understood. One cannot simply throw money at a problem and fix it.
    As I said before, Marc9000 is conservative and favors freedom over equality. He sees equality as mandatory ordained government meddling.
    The other side of the coin sees mandatory equality as an antidote to white privilege. I am somewhat in the middle and as of yet am still deciding which side if any I should support.
    Tanypteryx writes:
    That's because he's a racist. There is not a single point of view I share with him. I have nothing but contempt for him.
    That's a pretty strong position! marc 9000 is a conservative member of a church. He has never struck me as racist, but maybe it's because I have exhibited racist opinions myself. I'm guessing that you also have nothing but contempt for me also.
    I get defensive when EvC gangs up and tells me that there is no evidence for God. For people who are supposedly as intelligent as you all are, this willful blindness disturbs me. Percy, however, does have a point that gave me pause to think.
    Percy writes:
    It's incredible that you're so clueless you quoted a spot-on self-portrait describing your heartlessness, cruelty, and disregard for democracy. The people you criticize for denying Jesus have far more Christian spirit in one fingernail than you have in your entire body. (...)You've elevated belief in God and accepting Jesus as Lord and Savior as the sole qualification to goodness while spurning kindness and charity toward your fellow man. Your beliefs won't save you from the consequences of your heartlessness and cruelty.
    I can just picture it as you approach the pearly gates. "I appreciate that you believed in me and accepted my son as Lord and Savior, but did you really write that blacks and Indians would just waste the money, and did you really argue against helping the poor and the descendants of those robbed of their land and freedom?"
    I will agree with Percy that my belief won't save me as long as my actions don't line up.
    Tanypteryx writes:
    Since 1981 there have been no negotiations on taxes, the fucking republicans have cut all the taxes on the wealthy and large corporations and shifted the burden to the poor and middle class and then gave FUCKING TRILLIONS OF TAX DOLLARS TO THOSE SAME COMPANIES calling them "Tax Refunds". You cannot call it a refund if you didn't pay anything to begin with.
    You are fine with all THAT fucking money coming out of your pocket.
    High blood sugars aside, my rants stem from my fears. I am scared of an economic collapse, but I am more scared of the government taking control of the money away from the people..." for the benefit of the many rather than the individual". Perhaps I have absorbed the propaganda...I dunno. I also get disturbed when you get so angry at the "republicans". They understand that one cannot simply print money in order to rectify social inequality. Their sin is the belief in Trickle Down economics...which never works due to basic human nature.

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 391 by Tanypteryx, posted 12-02-2021 8:07 PM Tanypteryx has not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 413 by nwr, posted 12-03-2021 8:25 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
     Message 416 by ringo, posted 12-04-2021 11:19 AM Phat has replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18388
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 410 of 773 (889549)
    12-03-2021 4:37 PM
    Reply to: Message 406 by xongsmith
    12-03-2021 2:52 PM


    Re: Darker Future For USA
    Though Rebecca has a point, she focuses on vilifying the corporate people and ignoring the crime on the street. When will woke people like her quit coddling blue-collar crime?

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


    This message is a reply to:
     Message 406 by xongsmith, posted 12-03-2021 2:52 PM xongsmith has seen this message but not replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 411 by jar, posted 12-03-2021 4:50 PM Phat has not replied
     Message 415 by Percy, posted 12-04-2021 11:12 AM Phat has not replied

      
    Phat
    Member
    Posts: 18388
    From: Denver,Colorado USA
    Joined: 12-30-2003


    Message 417 of 773 (889556)
    12-04-2021 1:00 PM
    Reply to: Message 416 by ringo
    12-04-2021 11:19 AM


    Racism Is Not A One Way Street
    I listen to Peter Schiff, whom Percy has already judged solely on the fact that Irwin Schiff was his father. Schiff is knowledgeable about the economy and is usually right. On one of his podcasts from a couple of weeks ago, he addressed the Kyle Rittenhouse verdict and mentioned a few key observations regarding public reaction to it.
    The Devil You Know Is Still A Devil Episode 753.
    quote:

  • Biden reappoints #Powell as Fed Chairman and promotes #Brainard to Vice Chair.
  • Gold sells off and dollar rises on Fed news.
  • Investors worried about inflation under Powell two days ago now celebrate Powell’s reappointment.
  • Generation of entitled American socialists don’t think stealing is wrong.
  • MSNBC promotes racism.
  • Law-abiding citizens don’t use cars or guns to kill people.
  • Yes, this is some of the conservative "propaganda" which I listen to.
    Trying to be critical of my own biases, I concluded the following from listening to this and other shows.
  • The cries to buy gold and silver are being generated mainly by wealthy people. I conclude that the wealthy people are strongly against inflating the US Dollar as that action threatens their wealth. The US Dollar competes directly with the historical discipline of precious metals, being the premier global reserve fiat currency. The progressives see no problem as they actually want the wealthy to pay their "fair share" even though inflation is a "hidden tax" and will affect ALL of us. Perhaps they (the progressives) see no other way to get blood out of a conservative turnip.
    What jumped out at me from this episode, however, was the double standard regarding Kyle Rittenhouse (who happens to be white) vs the man who drove a car through a crowd several days later (who happens to be black). Schiff also touches on the California thefts and the double standard regarding the entitlement mentality of whites(like myself) and how it is addressed versus what he sees as an entitlement mentality against the progressive whites and people of color (which many see as justifiable reparations).
    Schiff commented on the Rittenhouse verdict at 41:05. (open transcript)
    Of course, many progressives will claim that Schiff too is racist yet would defend the riots in Kenosha as justifiable. 42:00 onward
    The progressive commentators saw the Rittenhouse verdict as a "victory for white people" and Schiff commented that was Fox News to say the same things against Black people that the commentators said about Rittenhouse they would have been fired.
    What saved Rittenhouse was that the 3 people whom he shot were white.
    So why was his verdict seen as racist?

    "A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
    ***
    “…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

    “The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
    - Criss Jami, Killo

    “The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
    (1894).


  • This message is a reply to:
     Message 416 by ringo, posted 12-04-2021 11:19 AM ringo has replied

    Replies to this message:
     Message 419 by nwr, posted 12-04-2021 1:50 PM Phat has not replied
     Message 420 by nwr, posted 12-04-2021 2:01 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied
     Message 434 by Percy, posted 12-05-2021 12:29 PM Phat has not replied
     Message 472 by ringo, posted 12-09-2021 10:55 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

      
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