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Author Topic:   Who's the bigger offender: Conservatives or Liberals?
ringo
Member (Idle past 489 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 356 of 773 (889482)
11-29-2021 12:06 PM
Reply to: Message 355 by Phat
11-29-2021 11:51 AM


Re: s against us.Re: Darker Future For USA
Phat writes:
Jesus was indeed a bleeding heart. His was of the noble variety. This is unlike the modern definitions of bleeding heart
Your "definition" is how right-wing nuts define it. You think "bleeding heart" is an insult when it should be Step One.
Phat writes:
What you guys fail to understand is that many of these so-named victims would never know what to do with a stimulus check or a reparations tax break if it were handed to them.
It has nothing to do with "failing to understand." It's about empathy. Your "understanding" is just grasping for excuses to do nothing.
Phat writes:
The reeducation must happen first. The reparations and lavish tax breaks will only be effective after that.
What?
Don't the reparations go to the opposite end of the economic spectrum from the tax breaks?
Phat writes:
Same with jars' observation that had the US helped the world (they)would have been better off. Never mind that many of "them" use our own weapons against us.
That would be the fault of the arms-makers and the arms-sellers, wouldn't it?

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 355 by Phat, posted 11-29-2021 11:51 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 489 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 374 of 773 (889511)
12-02-2021 11:00 AM
Reply to: Message 362 by Phat
11-30-2021 12:47 PM


Re: Mandatory Empathy and Government Control
Phat writes:
I will admit that I am not in favor of mandatory altruism...
Nobody is.
I can't force you to be a decent person.
Phat writes:
... nor of government control and regulation of MY assets which I earn.
All governments collect taxes. Roads, schools, etc....

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 362 by Phat, posted 11-30-2021 12:47 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 378 by Phat, posted 12-02-2021 11:41 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 489 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 376 of 773 (889513)
12-02-2021 11:23 AM
Reply to: Message 366 by Phat
12-01-2021 3:30 PM


Re: Mandatory Empathy and Government Control
Phat writes:
ar claims that the US *should* have helped rebuild Viet Nam and other places. Does he not realize that by lifting up the trading partners there would be direct competition for the American worker?
I can remember when people used to say that competition was a good thing.
Phat writes:
Does anyone want the CCP running the planet?
The CCP or Trump? Are those the only alternatives you can think of?
Phat writes:
One example of collectivism in action is selectively only giving stimulus checks to "each according to their need." This is a blatant example of in-group thinking and mandatory under a government of, by, and for the in-group.
That's crazy. The in-group is you.
Phat writes:
As our wages go up in line with inflation, we will be accused of causing inflation by insisting on parity....
Here's another anecdote for you:
Once upon a time, the construction unions in Saskatchewan bargained with the Saskatchewan contractors' association. Because wages were significantly higher in neighboring Alberta, they demanded wage parity, claiming that skilled workers would leave Saskatchewan for higher wages in Alberta. After several years of this argument going back and forth, they finally got wage parity.
Five minutes later, the Alberta construction unions demanded a raise from the Alberta contractors' association, claiming that the cost of living was higher in Alberta, so they needed higher wages than Saskatchewan.
Guess what happened when they got their raise.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 366 by Phat, posted 12-01-2021 3:30 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 489 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 377 of 773 (889514)
12-02-2021 11:27 AM
Reply to: Message 372 by Phat
12-02-2021 10:30 AM


Re: Mandatory Empathy and Government Control
Phat writes:
The question is "which people"? ALL of them? (Globalism writ LARGE)
Pop quiz: "Who said, "Go ye into all the world...?"
Is there nothing Jesus said that you won't spit on?

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 372 by Phat, posted 12-02-2021 10:30 AM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 379 by Phat, posted 12-02-2021 11:44 AM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 489 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 380 of 773 (889517)
12-02-2021 12:19 PM
Reply to: Message 378 by Phat
12-02-2021 11:41 AM


Re: Mandatory Empathy and Government Control
Phat writes:
Its the etceera that needs to be discussed.
It really isn't. That's your fundamental mistake. Every argument you make against the "etcetera" is also an argument against the roads and schools.
Phat writes:
I am FOR using taxes on Social Security. Medicare and Medicaid. Technology and research.
But you're not the dictator. You don't get to decide all by yourself. You don't get to build a road from your house to Safeway and to hell with everybody else.
Phat writes:
I am in favor of helping our citizens first--before helping other countries.
You're really not, though, are you? You're in favor if helping yourself and to hell with the homeless.
Phat writes:
I am in favor of spreading the wealth equally among the people rather than helping Blacks, Indians, and other marginalized groups.
I thought the Blacks and Indians were people too. You're clearly NOT in favor of "spreading the wealth equally". You're in favor of grabbing as much as you can for yourself - and you're oblivious to the fact that the rich are grabbing from you as well as from the Blacks, Indians and other non-people.
Phat writes:
They will simply waste the money.
I can't decide whether that statement is more hatreful or more stupid.
Phat writes:
I am NOT in favor of overseas investments.
Somebody else has already pointed out that without overseas investment, you would have nothing to stock your shelves. Somebody is investing overseas. What's so bad about the US reaping some of the benefits from overseas investments?
Phat writes:
And I am NOT in favor of the US Middle Class helping to rebuild countries who are against our beliefs. What good does that do?
Money in your pocket. Haven't you heard that money has no morals and no politics?

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 378 by Phat, posted 12-02-2021 11:41 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 489 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 381 of 773 (889518)
12-02-2021 12:24 PM
Reply to: Message 379 by Phat
12-02-2021 11:44 AM


Re: Mandatory Empathy and Government Control
Phat writes:
Well...you seem to think that we are ALL charged to give everything away.
The disciples also thought so. The lady with two mites thought so. The early Church thought so. The lady who fed Elijah thought so.
Phat writes:
You side with a mandatory government mandate...
Stop lying. I have told you many, many times that I do NOT advocate any such thing.
Phat writes:
... humans without Jesus will welcome the antichrist
And yet YOU are the one who denies everything Jesus said. YOU are the antiChrist.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 379 by Phat, posted 12-02-2021 11:44 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 489 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 399 of 773 (889538)
12-03-2021 10:54 AM
Reply to: Message 384 by Phat
12-02-2021 5:53 PM


Re: Mandatory Empathy and Government Control
Phat writes:
In short, cultural Marxism is a revolutionary leftist idea that traditional culture is the source of oppression in the modern world.
Jesus taught that traditional culture was the source of oppression in His world.
Phat writes:
And I am smart enough to differentiate between truth and lies.
Clearly not.
Phat writes:
What I mean is that aid to the people should not target only certain groups.
Like only the ones who need it?

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 384 by Phat, posted 12-02-2021 5:53 PM Phat has not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 489 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(3)
Message 402 of 773 (889541)
12-03-2021 11:08 AM
Reply to: Message 395 by Phat
12-03-2021 10:42 AM


Re: Darker Future For USA
Phat writes:
Ringo will bray on about helping the "least of these"....
It was Jesus who brayed on about the "least of these". I only quote Him.
Phat writes:
... as if people committing criminal acts are simply victims of a racist society.
You're being dishonest. You're trying to pull the old switcheroo. You're palming the pea. You post videos of organized crime and dishonestly conflate that with people who ARE victims of a racist society. You might as well post videos of the Holocaust and claim that I condone that.
Phat writes:
... my concerns regarding lawlessness and crime are not racist rants.
They're idiotic rants. Racism is another form of idiocy that you exhibit.
Phat writes:
Reparations do not mean that people should look the other way when a crime is clearly being committed.
And nobody has suggested that. You're swallowing hook, line and sinker what your right-wing handlers are telling you we think. And you're ignoring what WE tell you we think.
Phat writes:
... we the people are heading towards a lawless atheistic society....
"Lawless atheistic" is an oxymoron. It's pretty clear that atheists have a moral compass that's equal to or better than Christians'.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 395 by Phat, posted 12-03-2021 10:42 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 489 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(3)
Message 403 of 773 (889542)
12-03-2021 11:15 AM
Reply to: Message 401 by Phat
12-03-2021 11:01 AM


Re: Darker Future For USA
Phat writes:
Quit burying your heads in the sands of ideology and imagining that the world would be a better place if you got rid of the other side.
You're the one who's doing that.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 401 by Phat, posted 12-03-2021 11:01 AM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 489 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 416 of 773 (889555)
12-04-2021 11:19 AM
Reply to: Message 408 by Phat
12-03-2021 3:38 PM


Re: Mandatory Empathy and Government Control
Phat writes:
Seniority is colorblind.
Not really. It's like the old complaint: "How can I get hired without experience and how can I get experience without getting hired?"
"How can I keep my job without seniority and how can I get seniority without a job?"
Phat writes:
It saddens me that politics becomes the standard and that America has become so polarized and divided.
To borrow a thought from FDR: Fear of polarization may be worse than polarization itself.
Phat writes:
Yes, I watch Fox News. I also watch CNN, NBC, and even BBC and Al Jazeera at times.
I watch none of those. And I religiously avoid YouTube. The last thing I remember watching on YouTube was The Abominable Dr. Phibes ten years ago or so.
Phat writes:
I believe in listening to differing views in order to get the pulse of ALL people....
You feed your confirmation bias. You're like a creationist skimming through scientific articles looking for quotes that "prove" evolution is impossible.
Phat writes:
I feel as if I am not being understood.
You're being understood all too well.
Phat writes:
One cannot simply throw money at a problem and fix it.
That's a cute catch phrase. You'd need a pretty wide bumper for it though.
So, what else do governments have to throw besides money?

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 408 by Phat, posted 12-03-2021 3:38 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 417 by Phat, posted 12-04-2021 1:00 PM ringo has replied
 Message 418 by Phat, posted 12-04-2021 1:10 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 489 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 472 of 773 (889626)
12-09-2021 10:55 AM
Reply to: Message 417 by Phat
12-04-2021 1:00 PM


Re: Racism Is Not A One Way Street
Phat writes:
balh blah blah....
If you're going to respond to my posts, why don't you respond to something I said?

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 417 by Phat, posted 12-04-2021 1:00 PM Phat has seen this message but not replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 489 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 473 of 773 (889627)
12-09-2021 10:58 AM
Reply to: Message 418 by Phat
12-04-2021 1:10 PM


Re: Mandatory Empathy and Government Control
Phat writes:
ringo writes:
So, what else do governments have to throw besides money?
The point is the mandate which that government has been given. If you and the rest of EvC vote in a spend-happy government then I have no say as to where my tax dollars go and no say on whether taxes will in fact increase for me.
That doesn't answer the question. What do you expect governments to do besides spend money?

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 418 by Phat, posted 12-04-2021 1:10 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 474 by Phat, posted 12-09-2021 4:15 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 489 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(1)
Message 493 of 773 (889688)
12-11-2021 11:06 AM
Reply to: Message 474 by Phat
12-09-2021 4:15 PM


Re: Mandatory Empathy and Government Control
Phat writes:
First of all, I expect the people to be more united as to what type of government they vote in.
I didn't ask what you expect the people to do. I asked you what you expect the government to do.
Phat writes:
And for one thing, the money needs to be genuine and not "created" through an IOU.
That doesn't answer the question either.
Let's try again: You said in Message 408:
quote:
I feel as if I am not being understood. One cannot simply throw money at a problem and fix it.
Hoe can you be understood if you won't tell us what alternatives you propose?
So, what else do you expect governments to do besides throw money?
Edited by ringo, : Spelling.

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 474 by Phat, posted 12-09-2021 4:15 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 494 by Phat, posted 12-12-2021 1:15 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 489 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


(4)
Message 496 of 773 (889747)
12-13-2021 11:13 AM
Reply to: Message 494 by Phat
12-12-2021 1:15 PM


Re: Consensus and the role of Goverment
Phat writes:
... the whole idea of what "the government" should do is contentious.
I didn't ask what the government "should" do. I asked you what YOU, one individual, EXPECT the government to do besides throw money. You claim that problems can't be solved by throwing money; tell us what YOU think the alternatives are.
Phat writes:
Public opinion and belief is all over the map.
I didn't ask you about public opinion or beliefs. See above.
Phat writes:
Getting back to your question as to what one expects "government" to do, the problems inherent in today's society are poorly understood and no consensus on them is ever easily found.
I didn't ask how well the problems are understood and I didn't ask about consensus. I asked for a list of alternatives to throwing money.
Maybe an analogy will get through to you: Your claim is the equivalent of saying a pitcher can't win a baseball game by throwing the ball. I'm asking for a list of alternatives. What else can he do?
Phat writes:
Throw it in the right places that generate a return rather than simply trying to support every uneducated citizen who has no clue how to be productive, lift themselves out of poverty, and get educated.
So you admit that they CAN solve problems by throwing money. You just don't like where they're throwing it.
So, what kind of "return" are you suggesting? Throw the money at fat cats like Donald Trump and hope they can steal enough so that something trickles down? That's the "conservative" plan that you're supporting.
And how do you expect anybody to be productive, lift themselves out of poverty and get educated unless you support them first? How can you teach a man to fish without feeding him and his family while he's in fishing school?
Phat writes:
We need Jesus, but more importantly, we need to learn to be empathetic rather than selfish.
For god's sake, BUY A MIRROR!

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 494 by Phat, posted 12-12-2021 1:15 PM Phat has replied

Replies to this message:
 Message 497 by Phat, posted 12-14-2021 12:32 PM ringo has replied

  
ringo
Member (Idle past 489 days)
Posts: 20940
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005


Message 498 of 773 (889772)
12-14-2021 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 497 by Phat
12-14-2021 12:32 PM


Re: Consensus and the role of Goverment
Phat writes:
It would as if you had a drug addicted son.
Would you throw all oc gour spare. Money towards.helping him if he historically relapsed or would yku yourself risk being homeless time after time when you saw the pattern?
As usual, you didn't answer the question.
Yes, OF COURSE I would support my drug-addicted son. I would not watch him starve.
But you're trying to palm the pea again: You went from poverty to drug addiction. Poverty is considerably easier to cure than drug addiction.
The question was, "how do you expect anybody to be productive, lift themselves out of poverty and get educated unless you support them first?"
The key word there is FIRST. How can you do ANYTHING else for somebody unless you feed them first? How can you teach a man to fish without feeding him and his family while he's in fishing school?

"I call that bold talk for a one-eyed fat man!"
-- Lucky Ned Pepper

This message is a reply to:
 Message 497 by Phat, posted 12-14-2021 12:32 PM Phat has not replied

  
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