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Author Topic:   Who's the bigger offender: Conservatives or Liberals?
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8175
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.8


Message 196 of 242 (887092)
07-09-2021 3:48 PM
Reply to: Message 195 by Phat
07-09-2021 3:29 PM


Re: In Essence You Support A Meritocracy
Phat writes:

If i dont get enough after my best attempts at forming consensus with the world then I /we will blow something up versus being humiliated and squeezed.

How Christian. Is that something Jesus revealed to you in your long conversations?


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by Phat, posted 07-09-2021 3:29 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 197 by Phat, posted 07-10-2021 1:55 AM Tangle has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15467
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 197 of 242 (887093)
07-10-2021 1:55 AM
Reply to: Message 196 by Tangle
07-09-2021 3:48 PM


Re: In Essence You Support A Meritocracy
How Christian. Is that something Jesus revealed to you in your long conversations?

Of course not! But the fact is, the educated class would rather support a global meritocracy rather than taking care of their own people. This is why globalism potentially sucks.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 196 by Tangle, posted 07-09-2021 3:48 PM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 198 by Tangle, posted 07-10-2021 2:41 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8175
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.8


(2)
Message 198 of 242 (887096)
07-10-2021 2:41 AM
Reply to: Message 197 by Phat
07-10-2021 1:55 AM


Re: In Essence You Support A Meritocracy
Phat writes:

Of course not!


Ok, so it's just you wanting to stuff blow up. I thought you were saved?

But the fact is, the educated class would rather support a global meritocracy rather than taking care of their own people. This is why globalism potentially sucks.

I'm part of the 'educated class' and I have no idea what 'globalism' is. It seems to be something that conspiracy theorists and religious right wing nutters concern themselves with. They seem to need an idealogical enemy.

(btw, didn't you go to school? It would explain a lot)


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 197 by Phat, posted 07-10-2021 1:55 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

Replies to this message:
 Message 199 by vimesey, posted 07-10-2021 4:14 AM Tangle has responded

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1249
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 6.9


(6)
Message 199 of 242 (887097)
07-10-2021 4:14 AM
Reply to: Message 198 by Tangle
07-10-2021 2:41 AM


Re: In Essence You Support A Meritocracy
The so called "global elite" are the invisible enemy which the evil right wing thugs at the top of the totem pole have invented to sell to the people near the bottom of the totem pole, whose votes they need (at least until they succeed in destroying democracy).

And there are two things you need to do to maintain that totem pole - (a) invent an invisible enemy, as I've said, and (b) encourage racism and other forms of discrimination, so that the idiots near the bottom of the totem pole feel that (although they're not at the top with their millionaire manipulative idols), they're still above a lot of other people.

It happened in the 1930s, very successfully (for a while) and led to the slaughter of millions of human beings. It's starting again.


Could there be any greater conceit, than for someone to believe that the universe has to be simple enough for them to be able to understand it ?

This message is a reply to:
 Message 198 by Tangle, posted 07-10-2021 2:41 AM Tangle has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 200 by Tangle, posted 07-10-2021 4:36 AM vimesey has responded
 Message 207 by Phat, posted 07-12-2021 10:39 AM vimesey has not yet responded

  
Tangle
Member
Posts: 8175
From: UK
Joined: 10-07-2011
Member Rating: 3.8


(3)
Message 200 of 242 (887098)
07-10-2021 4:36 AM
Reply to: Message 199 by vimesey
07-10-2021 4:14 AM


Re: In Essence You Support A Meritocracy
And I suppose it helps if you can manage to turn education into 'a bad thing' so that the uneducated can feel better about themselves. Stupid and proud,

Reminds me of a Dilbert cartoon

Welcome to Dilbert


Je suis Charlie. Je suis Ahmed. Je suis Juif. Je suis Parisien. I am Mancunian. I am Brum. I am London.I am Finland. Soy Barcelona

"Life, don't talk to me about life" - Marvin the Paranoid Android

"Science adjusts it's views based on what's observed.
Faith is the denial of observation so that Belief can be preserved."
- Tim Minchin, in his beat poem, Storm.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by vimesey, posted 07-10-2021 4:14 AM vimesey has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 201 by vimesey, posted 07-10-2021 5:04 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
vimesey
Member
Posts: 1249
From: Birmingham, England
Joined: 09-21-2011
Member Rating: 6.9


(1)
Message 201 of 242 (887099)
07-10-2021 5:04 AM
Reply to: Message 200 by Tangle
07-10-2021 4:36 AM


Re: In Essence You Support A Meritocracy
Yeah, that's kind of me.

My wife keeps telling me not to get angry so much, but it's hard not to.

Need to get a puppy or some kittens or something...

Edited by vimesey, : No reason given.


This message is a reply to:
 Message 200 by Tangle, posted 07-10-2021 4:36 AM Tangle has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19140
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 202 of 242 (887100)
07-10-2021 10:21 AM
Reply to: Message 195 by Phat
07-09-2021 3:29 PM


Re: In Essence You Support A Meritocracy
Phat writes:

i might point out that being squeezed by the global population from the already spartan lifestyle which i now enjoy concerns and irritates me greatly.


You've been harping on that for years. Enough already!

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 195 by Phat, posted 07-09-2021 3:29 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 206 by Phat, posted 07-12-2021 10:36 AM ringo has responded

  
Sarah Bellum
Member
Posts: 738
Joined: 05-04-2019


(1)
Message 203 of 242 (887121)
07-11-2021 5:23 PM
Reply to: Message 171 by ringo
06-24-2021 12:19 PM


Re: Wannabe Conservative Thinkers
Almost every philosophy has some good points. Marx saw the oppressed workers that others had "let fall by the wayside." Islam talks of giving alms and "Thou shalt not kill" and all that. Even the Nazis built some roads and ran a national healthcare system.

Liberal and conservative both have sound ideas (and some not-so-sound ones). The trick of representative government in a free society is to get more of the good and less of the bad. Somehow.

As for that "feeding the children", don't you mean, instead, to describe the point of view that children should be fed by the national "family" even if their real family can't afford it?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 171 by ringo, posted 06-24-2021 12:19 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 204 by xongsmith, posted 07-12-2021 3:43 AM Sarah Bellum has not yet responded
 Message 205 by Phat, posted 07-12-2021 10:34 AM Sarah Bellum has not yet responded
 Message 208 by ringo, posted 07-12-2021 12:10 PM Sarah Bellum has not yet responded

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2044
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 204 of 242 (887125)
07-12-2021 3:43 AM
Reply to: Message 203 by Sarah Bellum
07-11-2021 5:23 PM


Re: Wannabe Conservative Thinkers
Sara asks:
As for that "feeding the children", don't you mean, instead, to describe the point of view that children should be fed by the national "family" even if their real family can't afford it?

well, I would say Yes!

i agree with that point of view.


"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."

- xongsmith, 5.7d


This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-11-2021 5:23 PM Sarah Bellum has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15467
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 205 of 242 (887126)
07-12-2021 10:34 AM
Reply to: Message 203 by Sarah Bellum
07-11-2021 5:23 PM


Re: Wannabe Conservative Thinkers
The problem is, that sort of thinking will transcend Nationalism and be mandatory everywhere on the planet. Not that it isn't a morally altruistic idea...the issue will be the mandatory part.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-11-2021 5:23 PM Sarah Bellum has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 209 by ringo, posted 07-12-2021 12:13 PM Phat has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15467
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 206 of 242 (887127)
07-12-2021 10:36 AM
Reply to: Message 202 by ringo
07-10-2021 10:21 AM


Re: In Essence You Support A Meritocracy
I know I know...the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one!
As I said above, the problem begins when a global consensus makes it mandatory. Government becomes our master rather than our slave.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 202 by ringo, posted 07-10-2021 10:21 AM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 210 by ringo, posted 07-12-2021 12:18 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15467
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 207 of 242 (887128)
07-12-2021 10:39 AM
Reply to: Message 199 by vimesey
07-10-2021 4:14 AM


Re: In Essence You Support A Meritocracy
The so-called "global elite" are the invisible enemy which the evil right-wing thugs at the top of the totem pole have invented to sell to the people near the bottom of the totem pole, whose votes they need (at least until they succeed in destroying democracy).
Translation: Right-Wing Thugs = the wealthy 1%. Did it ever occur to you that there are also Left Wing thugs who wish there to be a global consensus? They aren't poor either. They want mandatory global cooperation at the expense of free enterprise.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 199 by vimesey, posted 07-10-2021 4:14 AM vimesey has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 211 by ringo, posted 07-12-2021 12:21 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 212 by xongsmith, posted 07-12-2021 11:49 PM Phat has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19140
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 208 of 242 (887129)
07-12-2021 12:10 PM
Reply to: Message 203 by Sarah Bellum
07-11-2021 5:23 PM


Re: Wannabe Conservative Thinkers
Sarah Bellum writes:

As for that "feeding the children", don't you mean, instead, to describe the point of view that children should be fed by the national "family" even if their real family can't afford it?


The point was that the children should be fed, whether it's "affordable" or not.

Conservatives tend to try to weasel out by saying, "Is it really, really, really helping them or is it just making them dependent?" Meaning, "What's in it for me?"

It doesn't matter. Feed them first. Then worry about making them independent.


"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 203 by Sarah Bellum, posted 07-11-2021 5:23 PM Sarah Bellum has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19140
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 209 of 242 (887130)
07-12-2021 12:13 PM
Reply to: Message 205 by Phat
07-12-2021 10:34 AM


Re: Wannabe Conservative Thinkers
Phat writes:

... that sort of thinking will transcend Nationalism...


Yes. Shove your nationalism.

Phat writes:

...the issue will be the mandatory part.


It's already mandatory, according to Jesus. Mistreat the least of these and He doesn't know you.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 205 by Phat, posted 07-12-2021 10:34 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 213 by Phat, posted 07-12-2021 11:53 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19140
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 210 of 242 (887131)
07-12-2021 12:18 PM
Reply to: Message 206 by Phat
07-12-2021 10:36 AM


Re: In Essence You Support A Meritocracy
Phat writes:

I know I know...the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one!


That has NOTHING to do with what you quoted.

In Message 195 you said, "i might point out that being squeezed by the global population from the already spartan lifestyle which i now enjoy concerns and irritates me greatly." You have already "pointed that out" a thousand times. You don't need to point it out again like it's a big surprise to me.

Phat writes:

As I said above, the problem begins when a global consensus makes it mandatory. Government becomes our master rather than our slave.


In a democracy, the government is US. It isn't some mysterious entity forcing us to be decent human beings. It's US.

Edited by ringo, : No reason given.


"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 206 by Phat, posted 07-12-2021 10:36 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
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