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Author Topic:   Who's the bigger offender: Conservatives or Liberals?
ringo
Member
Posts: 19140
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 211 of 242 (887132)
07-12-2021 12:21 PM
Reply to: Message 207 by Phat
07-12-2021 10:39 AM


Re: In Essence You Support A Meritocracy
Phat writes:

Right-Wing Thugs = the wealthy 1%.


And their henchmen - i.e. you. You're like the poor whites who fought so ferociously to preserve slavery even though it harmed them.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by Phat, posted 07-12-2021 10:39 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2044
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 212 of 242 (887135)
07-12-2021 11:49 PM
Reply to: Message 207 by Phat
07-12-2021 10:39 AM


Re: In Essence You Support A Meritocracy
Phat writes:
Translation: Right-Wing Thugs = the wealthy 1%. Did it ever occur to you that there are also Left Wing thugs who wish there to be a global consensus? They aren't poor either. They want mandatory global cooperation at the expense of free enterprise.

Okay. I'm calling you out.

Let's get a list going:

alive Right-wing thugs:
------------------------------
1. Rupert Murdock
2. Mitch McConnell
3. ...any pro-Trumper in the 1%

alive Left-wing thugs:
------------------------------
1. ...
2. ...

??? well, come on now.

As for your fop "free enterprise", that may be the biggest loophole in the world. Free enterprise to me is unsurprisingly naive without some kind of check on it. It's an unfettered license to fuck over anything or anyone in its path, from allowing enslavement to pollution. I'll take mandatory global COOPERATION over unbridled free enterprise any day. And are you implying that the right-wing thugs wish some kind of global consensus? Maybe a consensus in their boardrooms...

And just how do you define "thug"? And why do _you_ have a Thugpreacha page?

Edited by xongsmith, : fix spelling of Thugpreacha


"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."

- xongsmith, 5.7d


This message is a reply to:
 Message 207 by Phat, posted 07-12-2021 10:39 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 214 by Phat, posted 07-13-2021 12:06 AM xongsmith has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15467
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 213 of 242 (887137)
07-12-2021 11:53 PM
Reply to: Message 209 by ringo
07-12-2021 12:13 PM


Re: Wannabe Conservative Thinkers
t's already mandatory, according to Jesus. Mistreat the least of these and He doesn't know you.
And you don't even believe in Jesus. You just use His massages to support your pet globalism, which mandates that the rich MUST feed the poor...damn the bill. In essence, you think that a global government should control global money for the interests of all.

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 209 by ringo, posted 07-12-2021 12:13 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 218 by ringo, posted 07-13-2021 12:34 PM Phat has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15467
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


(1)
Message 214 of 242 (887138)
07-13-2021 12:06 AM
Reply to: Message 212 by xongsmith
07-12-2021 11:49 PM


Re: In Essence You Support A Meritocracy
xongsmith writes:

Let's get a list going:

alive Left-wing thugs:


1) Mark Zuckerberg
Wiki writes:

Zuckerberg has never revealed his own political affiliation or voting history: some news outlets consider him to be a conservative,[150] while others consider him liberal.[151]

2) Jeff Bezos

Wiki writes:

According to public campaign finance records, Bezos supported the electoral campaigns of Patty Murray and Maria Cantwell, two Democratic U.S. senators from Washington. He has also supported Democrats U.S. representative John Conyers, as well as Patrick Leahy and Republican Spencer Abraham, U.S. senators serving on committees dealing with Internet-related issues.[243] Jeff Bezos and MacKenzie Bezos have supported the legalization of same-sex marriage, and in 2012 contributed $2.5 million to Washington United for Marriage, a group supporting a yes vote on Washington Referendum 74, which affirmed a same-sex marriage law enacted in the state.[244] Bezos donated $100,000 towards a movement against a Washington state income tax in 2010 for "top earners".[243] In 2012, he donated to Amazon's political action committee (PAC),[243] which has given $56,000 and $74,500 to Democrats and Republicans, respectively.[245]


3) ... Im sure I can find 5 more.

xongsmith writes:

I'll take mandatory global COOPERATION over unbridled free enterprise any day. And are you implying that the right-wing thugs wish some kind of global consensus? Maybe a consensus in their boardrooms...

Right Wing Thugs attempt consensus in global trade and matters of commerce. Left Wing Thugs attempt global consensus in matters of power and control. They are more likely to attempt to arrive at a One World Government rather than the Right are. The Right only wants a One World Commerce.

And to think you guys thought that the Christian End-times scenarios were a joke! Call it a self-fulfilling prophecy, but I can see the conflicts building up. Nobody wants war, but many will not settle for a global morality (mandatory global tax) at the expense of free enterprise.

And ringo, Jesus may have initially advocated it, but the humans who will be implementing and running it are far far removed from Him.

The Right-Wing guys may be greedier for money than the Left, but the Left has this delusion that they are global morality cops and rightfully powerful.

Find something wrong with the ideology of the late Dr.Milton Friedman and then we can talk.

Edited by Phat, : clarification


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 212 by xongsmith, posted 07-12-2021 11:49 PM xongsmith has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 215 by xongsmith, posted 07-13-2021 7:43 AM Phat has responded
 Message 219 by ringo, posted 07-13-2021 12:38 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
xongsmith
Member
Posts: 2044
From: massachusetts US
Joined: 01-01-2009
Member Rating: 4.5


Message 215 of 242 (887139)
07-13-2021 7:43 AM
Reply to: Message 214 by Phat
07-13-2021 12:06 AM


Re: In Essence You Support A Meritocracy
Phat answers:
alive Left-wing thugs:
1) Mark Zuckerberg
Wiki writes:

Zuckerberg has never revealed his own political affiliation or voting history: some news outlets consider him to be a conservative,[150] while others consider him liberal.[151]

while unknown you put him in the left-wing pile...

as for Bezos:

In 2012, he donated to Amazon's political action committee (PAC),[243] which has given $56,000 and $74,500 to Democrats and Republicans, respectively.

sounds like he's playing both sides to hedge his bets, with the Republicans getting more - hardly a left-wing thug. He pays his minions the minimum wage - hardly what a left-wing thug would do, but tight up the alley of a right-wing thug.

Now, my 2 examples are known thugs. Rupert with his damaging steady stream of vicious lies and Mitch with his "damn what better for the country's health, it's my money making schemes and my racist, misogynist Party first".

I'll grant you that Zuckerburg does a lot of bad things, but it's all for free and we can go somewhere else if we want (like here). i don't know what he pays his minions.


"I'm the Grim Reaper now, Mitch. Step aside."

- xongsmith, 5.7d


This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by Phat, posted 07-13-2021 12:06 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 216 by Phat, posted 07-13-2021 7:53 AM xongsmith has not yet responded
 Message 217 by Phat, posted 07-13-2021 8:59 AM xongsmith has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15467
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 216 of 242 (887140)
07-13-2021 7:53 AM
Reply to: Message 215 by xongsmith
07-13-2021 7:43 AM


Re: In Essence You Support A Meritocracy
Dont you get it? Its the minions who are ultimately the Left Wing Thugs. Ordinary wee little bureaucrats who thirst for power and control. Money is not their downfall. (Note I edited Post 214)

Edited by Phat, : No reason given.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by xongsmith, posted 07-13-2021 7:43 AM xongsmith has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 220 by ringo, posted 07-13-2021 12:40 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply
 Message 223 by dwise1, posted 07-13-2021 3:16 PM Phat has responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15467
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 217 of 242 (887141)
07-13-2021 8:59 AM
Reply to: Message 215 by xongsmith
07-13-2021 7:43 AM


Re: In Essence You Support A Meritocracy
xongsmith writes:

sounds like he's playing both sides to hedge his bets, with the Republicans getting more - hardly a left-wing thug. He pays his minions the minimum wage - hardly what a left-wing thug would do, but tight up the alley of a right-wing thug.

That makes sense. A Left-Leaning CEO would pay more since he likely uses his minions to manage his company. A Right Leaning CEO would fire people because he could care less about them. Its all about money...morality is an inconvenient truth to them.

Now, my 2 examples are known, thugs. Rupert with his damaging steady stream of vicious lies and Mitch with his "damn what better for the country's health, it's my money-making schemes and my racist, misogynist Party first".
As a moderate, Im not convinced that the conservatives c an be pigeonholed into being racist and misogynistic as a group...though Trump certainly was as have been others. Its not so much that they hate minority classes...its that they don't want to be dictated by the progressive Left.

I'll grant you that Zuckerburg does a lot of bad things, but it's all for free and we can go somewhere else if we want (like here). I don't know what he pays his minions
Like I said, all the minions want is power and political clout if they are Left Wing. If they are Right Wing they will kiss ass to get bigger paychecks.

"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 215 by xongsmith, posted 07-13-2021 7:43 AM xongsmith has not yet responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19140
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 218 of 242 (887143)
07-13-2021 12:34 PM
Reply to: Message 213 by Phat
07-12-2021 11:53 PM


Re: Wannabe Conservative Thinkers
Phat writes:

And you don't even believe in Jesus.


But you claim you do, even though you constantly scoff at Him.

Phat writes:

You just use His massages to support your pet globalism...


Nope. I use His messages to demonstrate that your Jesus is entirely made up.

Phat writes:

...which mandates that the rich MUST feed the poor...


Oh come on. Any decent person would feed the poor. It's not a matter of your boogey-man "globalism" at all. It's a matter of human decency.

Phat writes:

...damn the bill.


Damn right. You feed your children, no matter what the cost.

Phat writes:

In essence, you think that a global government should control global money for the interests of all.


Will you LISTEN for once? I have NEVER said one single, solitary word about governemt mandating anything. STOP making that false claim.

I have said that helping the less fortunate should be what everybody wants - ESPECIALLY if they claim to be Christians. Helping the less fortunate DOES benefit everybody.

Let me tell you a story:

A while back, I was sitting outside the Library using the free wi-fi. A young fellow (well, thirty-five-ish) came and sat down beside me. He asked me if I liked the song he was listening to. I said I had never heard it before. He asked me what kind of music I like and, with hesitation, I told him I used to listen to a lot of heavy-metal. He asked for an example. I hesitated again and said, "Judas Priest." He looked on his phone and found a Judas Priest playlist and asked me to pick a song. When I picked one, he played it and he grinned from ear to ear. His stepfather used to play that song all the time.

When he got up to leave, I noticed he had left his wallet on the bench between us so I reminded him not to forget it. He was so grateful (he said there was several hundred dollars in it) that he offered me $5 as a reward. I told him I didn.t need it, give it to somebody who needs it. He told me to give it to somebody who needs it.

So... Chapter Two. I walked around for a while with that $5 burning a hole in my pocket. I seldom pay cash for anything any more but I was concerned that i might spend it on myself without thinking.

Then, a while later, I was sitting outside the Library again, using the free wi-fi again, when another young man came up to me and asked if I could help him. I told him it depended on what kind of help he needed. (I'm not much use pushing cars out of snowbanks any more - it was June anyway, but....) He mumbled something about spare change.

I (figurateively) jumped for joy and told him this story: "A while back, I was sitting outside the Library using the free wi-fi. a young fellow (well, thirty-five-ish) came and sat down beside me. He asked me if I liked the song he was listening to...."

When I got to the part about the $5, I took it out of my pocket and gave it to him. He practically had tears in his eyes, he was so grateful.

So... I made three people happy - the guy who gave me the money, the guy I gave it to, and myself - and it didn't cost me a cent.


"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 213 by Phat, posted 07-12-2021 11:53 PM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 221 by Phat, posted 07-13-2021 1:22 PM ringo has responded

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19140
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(2)
Message 219 of 242 (887144)
07-13-2021 12:38 PM
Reply to: Message 214 by Phat
07-13-2021 12:06 AM


Re: In Essence You Support A Meritocracy
Phat writes:

And ringo, Jesus may have initially advocated it, but the humans who will be implementing and running it are far far removed from Him.


Not as far as you are.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 214 by Phat, posted 07-13-2021 12:06 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19140
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


Message 220 of 242 (887145)
07-13-2021 12:40 PM
Reply to: Message 216 by Phat
07-13-2021 7:53 AM


Re: In Essence You Support A Meritocracy
Phat writes:

Dont you get it? Its the minions who are ultimately the Left Wing Thugs.


How can anybody "get it" if you move the goal posts?

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by Phat, posted 07-13-2021 7:53 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15467
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 221 of 242 (887146)
07-13-2021 1:22 PM
Reply to: Message 218 by ringo
07-13-2021 12:34 PM


Re: Wannabe Conservative Thinkers
Just out of curiosity I have two questions. I don't mean to get too personal, but context helps.

1) Why do you sit outside the library? Why don't you go in?
2) If your house was sold/repossessed/taken by family, does that make YOU homeless or do you have a place to stay?


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 218 by ringo, posted 07-13-2021 12:34 PM ringo has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 222 by ringo, posted 07-13-2021 1:37 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19140
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 222 of 242 (887147)
07-13-2021 1:37 PM
Reply to: Message 221 by Phat
07-13-2021 1:22 PM


Re: Wannabe Conservative Thinkers
Phat writes:

Why do you sit outside the library? Why don't you go in?


The Library was closed for a while in the spring and when they re-opened, they discouraged people from staying too long. The wi-fi works 24/7, holidays, etc.

Phat writes:

If your house was sold/repossessed/taken by family, does that make YOU homeless or do you have a place to stay?


The title is in dispute. I was behind in the taxes and the city wanted me to pay either more money than I had in a lump sum OR more than I make in a month every month OR they would apply to the province to take the title. So I moved into an apartment and they can do what they like.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 221 by Phat, posted 07-13-2021 1:22 PM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
dwise1
Member
Posts: 4639
Joined: 05-02-2006
Member Rating: 4.5


(1)
Message 223 of 242 (887148)
07-13-2021 3:16 PM
Reply to: Message 216 by Phat
07-13-2021 7:53 AM


Re: In Essence You Support A Meritocracy
Its the minions who are ultimately the Left Wing Thugs. Ordinary wee little bureaucrats who thirst for power and control. Money is not their downfall.

Absolutely bizarre in your divorce from reality. And why have you still not yet read The Authoritarians by now-retired psych prof Bob Altemeyer? You are very clearly displaying your ignorance of the subject matter of authoritarianism.

Thugs are thugs. Thuggery is neither right-wing nor left-wing, it simply is (like Stupid is never invited to the party, but it still always simply shows up). Without some kind of leader to direct their thuggery, it will simply devolve into random and sporadic chaos.

Altemeyer's use of the term, "right wing authoritarian", has been criticized for its political implications and he does concede and freely emphasizes that RWA ratings are independent of actual political orientation; from pages 9 & 10:

quote:
ight-Wing and Left-Wing Authoritarian Followers

Authoritarian followers usually support the established authorities in their society, such as government officials and traditional religious leaders. Such people have historically been the “proper” authorities in life, the time-honored, entitled, customary leaders, and that means a lot to most authoritarians. Psychologically these followers have personalities featuring:

  1. ) a high degree of submission to the established, legitimate authorities in their society;
  2. ) high levels of aggression in the name of their authorities; and
  3. ) a high level of conventionalism.

Because the submission occurs to traditional authority, I call these followers right-wing authoritarians. I’m using the word “right” in one of its earliest meanings, for in Old English “riht”(pronounced “writ”) as an adjective meant lawful, proper, correct, doing what the authorities said. (And when someone did the lawful thing back then, maybe the authorities said, with a John Wayne drawl, “You got that riht, pilgrim!”)

In North America people who submit to the established authorities to extraordinary degrees often turn out to be political conservatives, so you can call them “right-wingers” both in my new-fangled psychological sense and in the usual political sense as well. But someone who lived in a country long ruled by Communists and who ardently supported the Communist Party would also be one of my psychological right-wing authoritarians even though we would also say he was a political left-winger. So a right-wing authoritarian follower doesn’t necessarily have conservative political views. Instead he’s someone who readily submits to the established authorities in society, attacks others in their name, and is highly conventional. It’s an aspect of his personality, not a description of his politics. Rightwing authoritarianism is a personality trait, like being characteristically bashful or happy or grumpy or dopey.

You could have left-wing authoritarian followers as well, who support a revolutionary leader who wants to overthrow the establishment. I knew a few in the 1970s, Marxist university students who constantly spouted their chosen authorities, Lenin or Trotsky or Chairman Mao. Happily they spent most of their time fighting with each other, as lampooned in Monty Python’s Life of Brian where the People’s Front of Judea devotes most of its energy to battling, not the Romans, but the Judean People’s Front. But the left-wing authoritarians on my campus disappeared long ago. Similarly in America “the Weathermen” blew away in the wind. I’m sure one can find left-wing authoritarians here and there, but they hardly exist in sufficient numbers now to threaten democracy in North America. However I have found bucketfuls of right-wing authoritarians in nearly every sample I have drawn in Canada and the United States for the past three decades. So when I speak of “authoritarian followers” in this book I mean right-wing authoritarian followers, as identified by the RWA scale.


So there really is no difference between your "left-wing thugs" and "right-wing thugs", no way to differentiate between them outside of your desire to paint your side's thugs as some kind of saints. Thugs are thugs and should be dealt with in the same manner regardless of their political leanings.

 
Now, that's talking about the followers. What about the leaders? For those thugs to organize into groups and engage in an organized assault on a target (eg, the US Capitol), they need to have been led. What Altemeyer found is that his RWA assessment didn't work for most of the leaders of high-RWAs. For that, he needed to draw from the work of other psychologists who developed a Social Dominance Orientation scale, "a measure of belief in social inequality" (start reading at page 160). While not necessarily being high-RWAs themselves, they take full advantage of the traits of high-RWA followers -- though some of them do turn out to be high-RWAs themselves resulting in the much-dreaded "double high" (see page 177).

Let's review some basics about high- and low-RWA personalities. High-RWA types lock themselves in a bubble of "them versus us" and "everybody not-us poses a danger to us and want to destroy us" (just look at your messages for examples of that); they find themselves surrounded by hostile and deadly stereotypes. Low-RWAs see (or at least seek to see) beyond the stereotypes and instead see other people not unlike themselves (ie, in a sense, their concept of "us" is much more inclusive -- Altemeyer conducted decades-long diachronic studies (ie, "through time") tracking students' and their families' RWA ratings from high (arriving fresh from their family and small community environments) to lower (finally meeting and learning about "the dreaded Others") to higher (becoming parents themselves) to hopefully lower again (empty nest)).

Basically, high-RWAs will readily fall in line and march unquestioningly in lock-step behind an authoritarian leader. In contrast, low-RWAs will want to think for themselves. When you try to recruit followers, if you tell a high-RWA that you believe in what he believes in, then he'll believe you, but if you tell a low-RWA the same thing, his reaction will be to not believe you.

As a potential authoritarian leader, you will want to target the high-RWAs since they are the low-hanging fruit who are the easiest to recruit, to convince, and to keep convinced -- very low maintenance. The low-RWAs are far too high-maintenance to be worth the bother. Metaphorically, the high-RWA GQP are the true "sheeple" who mindlessly follow everything their leaders tell them and who flock eagerly to get fleeced over and over and over again, while it can be frustratingly difficult to get those think-for-themselves Democrats to all agree on anything, making herding cats child's play.

Ordinary wee little bureaucrats who thirst for power and control. Money is not their downfall.

No, rather their downfall is office supplies!

I am a retired software engineer, so I spent most of my career in an office and associated labs. We would have training sessions on various aspects of security, etc. In one security presentation, the instructor informed us that most companies go out of business because of employee pilferage. Office supplies, lab items and test equipment. An earlier company I worked for used hard drives in their products and those hard drives just kept walking out the back door. And that's not counting the intangibles like using the Xerox machines and the Internet for personal use on company time.

{ Sidebar:

In 2003 ShowTime had a dark comedy series, Dead Like Me about "grim reapers" whose job was to release the souls of those who died by other means. The leader of the Reaper cell in the show would hand out the reaping assignments (date, time, and place) on little yellow Post-Its (1.5x2 inches) -- every questioned raised about why the Post-Its was met with a shrug and "don't bother asking." BTW, as Reapers they had to find means to support themselves; usually they would move into the digs of a recently deceased though some arrangements became more permanent.

In one episode, suddenly someone was given an assignment on a blue Post-It and all the characters spent the entire episode trying to figure out the special significance of the blue Post-It. It turned out that the deceased's apartment the leader was living in had spent years pilfering her employer's office supplies so she had an entire closet filled with Post-Its. And just by chance the next one he pulled out of the closet was blue.


}

 

Dont you get it?

Do you still not get it?

It is not the "Ordinary wee little bureaucrats" who thirst for power and control. Rather it is their leaders. The very ones whom you are trying to absolve of all responsibility.

Are you actually trying to argue that it's the minions who are self-organizing to engage in insurrection against the wishes of their employers? Really?

Minions acting as minions have no direction. That direction is provided by their leaders.

So trying to shift the blame from the leaders of the malfeasance to be born solely by their own minions is absolutely outrageous!

Did you at least get a good deal on your nose-ring? Or was it just a cheap Trump brand?


This message is a reply to:
 Message 216 by Phat, posted 07-13-2021 7:53 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 224 by Phat, posted 07-15-2021 1:27 AM dwise1 has not yet responded

  
Phat
Member
Posts: 15467
From: Denver,Colorado USA
Joined: 12-30-2003
Member Rating: 1.1


Message 224 of 242 (887154)
07-15-2021 1:27 AM
Reply to: Message 223 by dwise1
07-13-2021 3:16 PM


Re: In Essence You Support A Meritocracy
Absolutely bizarre in your divorce from reality. And why have you still not yet read The Authoritarians by now-retired psych prof Bob Altemeyer? You are very clearly displaying your ignorance of the subject matter of authoritarianism.
I never studied the book in detail and am glad that you called me out on my ignorance. I respected the conclusions of that author and probably should pay better attention. I'll note that I observe that when I go off on rants, I usually argue more from emotion rather than logic.
I dont like that word. (Thugs) Lets replace it with Upper Political or Upper Corporate Management. What Im trying to argue is that in general, as I said earlier, (correcting my descriptions somewhat)
Right Wing Leaders attempt consensus in global trade and matters of commerce. Left Wing Leaders attempt global consensus in matters of power and control. They are more likely to attempt to arrive at a One World Government rather than the Right are. The Right only wants a One World Commerce.
Now to be fair, I might elaborate. The Right would run the planet only to keep the Left from doing so. They dont like to have to adjust their emotional views on things so much. They just want business as usual. Jonathan Haidt elaborates furtherin his book, The Righteous Mind: Why Good People Are Divided by Politics and Religion
quote:
Authoritarian followers usually support the established authorities in their society, such as government officials and traditional religious leaders. Such people have historically been the “proper” authorities in life, the time-honored, entitled, customary leaders, and that means a lot to most authoritarians. Psychologically these followers have personalities featuring:
  1. ) a high degree of submission to the established, legitimate authorities in their society;
  2. ) high levels of aggression in the name of their authorities; and
  3. ) a high level of conventionalism.


I also like the way that you thoroughly explain things as you make your arguments.

I lean a bit to the right because they advocate freedom more than humanism. Granted it can be a refuge for the greedy and the selfish, but I would assert that the Left Wing is a refuge for humanists who don't believe in a power higher than themselves.


"A lie can travel half way around the world while the truth is putting on its shoes." ~Mark Twain "
***
“…far from science having buried God, not only do the results of science point towards his existence, but the scientific enterprise itself is validated by his existence.”- Dr.John Lennox

“The whole war between the atheist and the theist comes down to this: the atheist believes a 'what' created the universe; the theist believes a 'who' created the universe.”
- Criss Jami, Killo

“The most difficult subjects can be explained to the most slow-witted man if he has not formed any idea of them already; but the simplest thing cannot be made clear to the most intelligent man if he is firmly persuaded that he knows already, without a shadow of a doubt, what is laid before him.” — Leo Tolstoy, The Kingdom of God is Within You
(1894).


This message is a reply to:
 Message 223 by dwise1, posted 07-13-2021 3:16 PM dwise1 has not yet responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 225 by ringo, posted 07-15-2021 12:08 PM Phat has responded
 Message 228 by PaulK, posted 07-16-2021 5:24 AM Phat has acknowledged this reply

  
ringo
Member
Posts: 19140
From: frozen wasteland
Joined: 03-23-2005
Member Rating: 2.5


(1)
Message 225 of 242 (887155)
07-15-2021 12:08 PM
Reply to: Message 224 by Phat
07-15-2021 1:27 AM


Re: In Essence You Support A Meritocracy
Phat writes:

I would assert that the Left Wing is a refuge for humanists who don't believe in a power higher than themselves.


We don't need a refuge.

"I've been to Moose Jaw, now I can die." -- John Wing

This message is a reply to:
 Message 224 by Phat, posted 07-15-2021 1:27 AM Phat has responded

Replies to this message:
 Message 226 by Phat, posted 07-15-2021 3:18 PM ringo has responded

  
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